"terminated and replaced" gives such a hilarious image

Like the new devs are T-1000s who killed Holden and Morke and stole their clothes

Because only Skynet understands how to make Exalted 3rd Edition books anymore
vance is a terminator

vance is a law student

mj12 is the barristerminator

barristerminator = barrister + terminator portmanteau

mj12 is a lawyer

mj12 and vance are the same person

mj12 is a third edition developer

only skynet knows how to make 3rd edition books anymore

mj12 is skynet

QED
 
Just like how Ramethus could not be killed, for he was conflict and strife and strength born of hardship, and to raise arms against him was to feed him.

The Solars then murdered him.

I can personally attest, based on discussion in another thread, that the Vodak is one of the idea-tumors you should be cutting off of your Creation and incinerating as a matter of course. It's a boring, ridiculously contrived raid boss whose special snowflake immortality only exists to force players to follow the railroad tracks its module lays down for them.

To be specific, the way you kill it is by pulling a lever to activate a First Age Wonder that magically autokills it, even though the module also says the gathered might of the High First Age couldn't put a dent in it and they were forced to simply cede a section of land to the thing. While also building a magic Kryptonite ray that can instakill it, of course, but not actually bothering to use it.

Truly, a narrative tour de force that justifies ignoring one of the setting's most basic elements.

The primordials were invincible, just like humans are invincible. Which is to say they are not really that invincible. A ant might think a human is invincible, but it still can be killed. A human might think it can't be killed by something like an ant, but enough ants can still kill you.

That description you made is hyperbole, like how the primordials were invincible. It's like saying that 1 mote has the power of an atomic bomb, or that the Eye of Autocthon is omnipotent. An exaggeration that was probably intended to convey a sense of grandness.

Sometimes stuff is meant literally, and If we are talking about core parts of the setting, Arguably one of them is how defenses work.

Someone using "Seven Shadows Evasion" could dodge the earth while falling yet still land*. A primordial or the Incarna can't just say no it hits, despite how much greater they might be. You can't "just" ignore these defenses thingies, they have to be worked around.

You can make some sorts of analgies about this like:
A hero whose power comes from his determination can fight the makers of the world. When they shatter the faith in his goals, he finds he can longer match them.

A god returns even if you destroy his body, as his spirit still lingers. So you eat his soul.


If we are talking about plot tumors or whatever, In the case of that tree behemoth it doesn't really apply.
It isn't impossible to destroy every tree in Creation, but it is rather hard. The thing is that Elysande, isn't something like a death lord who is going to blow up a city or the country. It is a tree that sits around and gives a small amount of healing fruit, and it can't actually fight.
In addition you can still get rid of it. The tree thing regrows from a seed that has to be planted first. You can just keep the seed in glass jar and forget about it.




I don't think that lever device showed up in 2e. The Vodak takes 100 years to come back though.


*Technically you can not dodge or parry falling in 2/2.5, even with charms. Which is stupid.
 
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Now that I got a computer...

I have an idea for a charmset, I believe. But first I need your opinion on something.

The god of teachers and such, looking down upon the horrifically bad first age, has decided to make his own exigence. The purpose of the exigence was to promote learning and schools and education, setting up universities, guilds, teachers, tutors, and schools. All of these will pray to him and give him Ambrosia. The amount of prayer increase will be immense. His prestige will skyrocket. He will have all the ambrosia he needs for his parties. And I suppose that the mortals will benefit too.

Now, should the exigence of teachers and such be a better teacher than the solars?

I mean, the solar exalted are given their powers by the Unconquered Sun, whose themes are perfection, unsurpassed excellence in all things, and basically 'i'm better than you'.

But this is the schtick of the teacher exigent! Should they, perhaps, outshine the solars in their own focused part? Or perhaps be superior in other ways?
 
You might have just sparked off an argument as old as Exalted itself. :V
Which is?

I'm thinking of adding in manuals which, upon reading them, could let you instantly master whatever's in it. Or perfect training regimens to bring you up to 5 dots in whatever ability or attribute. Or being able to grant them favoured abilities. Or... well, you get it.

I'm just not sure on how powerful they should be.
 
Thanks. I was thinking of stuff like nomads, and slash and burn, and... well.

One thing i like about 3e is the Sorcerous motes. You can cast sorcery every day, multiple times, with no ill effect. Let's say that a sorcerer can summon up magnitude 3 amounts of water. That basically means you just watered a shitton of animals and people. Add in summoning the harvest, and, well.... let's just say that with a few sorcerers, a tribe can literally live in the middle of the deep south, forever, with no oasis or such, subsisting on the grass and crops and summoned by the sorcerer. Which brings to mind raising the earth's bones. A group of nomads might literally make treks between different fortresses as they make a circle in the deep desert, forever sustained by summoned water and crops. Summoning the harvest works inly once a year, but that is no problem if you always change places. So it's possible that they could literally have a new crop every single week, just by living as nomads.

Its really really interesting, just to think how sorcery can solve so many problems of living.
I think you've stumbled onto a cool concept here, but in addition to the stuff everyone else pointed out, you should think about where they're getting the crops from. Summoning of the Harvest makes everything grow to ripeness, but it has to have something to grow first. Do they rely on the grasses and shrubs that are already there? If so, then what happens if there's a rough year and all of that stuff is dead? Do they carry seeds around with them like the Vuvalini? Then what happens if those get lost or stolen or destroyed? These are the sorts of complications you want to think of ahead of time.

Also, would this be just the one group following a single sorcerer or maybe master/apprentice pair? Or would you have a Dalish-like culture based around interdependence with other clans?

Which is?

I'm thinking of adding in manuals which, upon reading them, could let you instantly master whatever's in it. Or perfect training regimens to bring you up to 5 dots in whatever ability or attribute. Or being able to grant them favoured abilities. Or... well, you get it.

I'm just not sure on how powerful they should be.
This, on the other hand, is just stupid. It's basically taking the Tiger Warrior Training alikes, making them even more bullshit powerful than they are already, and then condensing them into an Artifact. For PCs, it's shortcutting the need to actually grow and learn things, and for NPCs, it's cutting out the need for players to put in effort to teach people. If something like this existed, it would have to be either a singular Artifact at either 5 or N/A rating (think the Book of the Dead from Sabriel), or incredibly powered down. Maybe books that act as tutors in a specific skill or attribute for each one could work at the lower level, but not something that lets you instantly skip to 5 dots.
 
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Minor topic-shift. What's the general opinion here of Holden and Morke being terminated and replaced as Exalted's developers? I ask because I saw Morke expressing displeasure at the prospect of Neall Price being brought on as one such replacement, and it got me wondering how y'all feel about the subject.

(If this conversation's already been held, I'd be happy to go peruse it if someone has a relevant page approximation for me to wander off to.)
Best thing that happened to the game since the announcement of 3rd ed.
 
I think you've stumbled onto a cool concept here, but in addition to the stuff everyone else pointed out, you should think about where they're getting the crops from. Summoning of the Harvest makes everything grow to ripeness, but it has to have something to grow first. Do they rely on the grasses and shrubs that are already there? If so, then what happens if there's a rough year and all of that stuff is dead? Do they carry seeds around with them like the Vuvalini? Then what happens if those get lost or stolen or destroyed? These are the sorts of complications you want to think of ahead of time.

Also, would this be just the one group following a single sorcerer or maybe master/apprentice pair? Or would you have a Dalish-like culture based around interdependence with other clans?
What's Dalish?

Potatos. Lettuce. Radishes. Beets. Basically, they carry the seeds with them. Also, grass seeds, for their flocks and herds.
 
Why is this hypothetical collection of nomads allowing their survival to be chained to the whims of one sorcerer to such a degree? Why would a group of nomads be willing to pack up and move from one place to another place 60+ times a year, when a 'normal' nomadic society would be more likely to have a much more seasonal range?
I haven't really thought of that yet.

Perhaps they were forced out of their home, and made to wander?

Maybe they went into the deep desert to escape a great danger?

Maybe their ancestors were people who, after the great contagion, were stranded in the desert with no amenities, survived via sorcery, and then continued on?

Maybe they did so cause there was no good farmland, and they used summoning of the harvest to keep themselves alive?

Maybe they were ordinary seasonal nomads, but after finding sorcery their lifedtyle changed?
 
Generally speaking, the things I don't like about 3E ("natural language" ruleset, maximalism to the max, dice tricks, combinatorial hell, "the GM will handle it for free" balancing) would be impossible for them to fix without rewriting the corebook, which they aren't going to be allowed to do, so what they do is unfortunately pretty irrelevant. Those problems won't be solved until the next edition, assuming there ever is one.
It's worth noting that based on the previews, they're ditching the natural language 'style' going forward and they've been giving lots of clarifications over in their 'Ask the Devs' thread.

I think that's a good start, personally.
 
Um, when i said books, i meant stuff like occult rituals.

But perhaps the language was wrong
The same thing applies. If it has an effect like "instant mastery" without some serious drawbacks, it's broken. If it is more bullshit than TWT, it's broken. Read the goddamn text and find things similar to what you want, then base it off of that instead of shotgunning things into the thread and expecting us to do your work for you.
 
This, on the other hand, is just stupid. It's basically taking the Tiger Warrior Training alikes, making them even more bullshit powerful than they are already, and then condensing them into an Artifact. For PCs, it's shortcutting the need to actually grow and learn things, and for NPCs, it's cutting out the need for players to put in effort to teach people. If something like this existed, it would have to be either a singular Artifact at either 5 or N/A rating (think the Book of the Dead from Sabriel), or incredibly powered down. Maybe books that act as tutors in a specific skill or attribute for each one could work at the lower level, but not something that lets you instantly skip to 5 dots.
I'd personally take a leaf from Chiron. A teacher of HEROES, not of masses. So stuff which trains better than the solar training charms, but works on a one on one mentor basis.

IIRC the fluff for Exigents was that they were the leftover Solaroid templates anyway? Or was that dumped along the way.
 
Now, should the exigence of teachers and such be a better teacher than the solars?
Not better in terms of the overall power/convenience/cost Solar charms have (Like, they shouldn't be able to break the limits of how high Solars can punch for the same XP, and shouldn't get Solar Sorcery or reach their dicecap). The Exigent can't and shouldn't exceed the Solars, but they can and should approach the problem in different ways.

A solar teacher might rely on personal tutoring like in Tiger Warrior Training or HAM, but a Teacher exigent could enlighten their pupils so that they flatly reduce training time for their next skill dot or merit. (less powerful since it doesn't actually teach anything, more broad since it can apply to skills you don't know)

Perhaps you gain the ability to teach something through linguistics and make it reproducible by commiting motes, or use broader performance charms to teach people.

This is more of general Exigent views, but

I'd have teaching from an Exigent be more focused on working with the environment. Like, a Solar works by ignoring requirements/environmental stuff (like CNNT, Solar Sabre, etc). An Exigent should instead work with the environment. Like, a Solar gets a charm that means they do not need to bother with a student's motivation, they learn regardless.

An Exigent should instead be inventivised to work with and make the best use out of motivated ppl instead of ignoring motivation flatly. Then this leads to charms to find talent in others, and then you can finally boost peoples talent up via blessing.
 
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Is there tldr for those who didn't follow the drama about what was the issues exactly?
IIRC: Holden and Morke went way past their deadline working on a corebook that is not really well liked, which they filled with a lot of kinda vague natural language and too many charms that don't seem to do much but mess with Charms, and when they did previews for the other Exalted types there were a lot of worrying bits (though I don't remember the specifics besides the rape-ghost fiasco).

When they were called out on this, Holden (don't remember if Morke did this as well) kinda doubled down on it instead of accepting the criticism and started arguing heatedly with the fan base instead of admitting he was in the wrong.
 
So the Anathema download link is down. Would someone be kind enough to upload it somewhere else and pass along a link?
 
So 1 idea is giving the savant mutation?

But... the idea was that the god of teachers wanted an exalted that creates a greater about of education. He doesn't want to educate heroes. He wants to educate the masses, who will then pray to him.

But by all means, do it yourself. I'll make it myself without your help
 
I'd personally take a leaf from Chiron. A teacher of HEROES, not of masses. So stuff which trains better than the solar training charms, but works on a one on one mentor basis.
This I'm cool with. My main issue with his original concept was that he wanted there to be an inanimate object filling the role, and he wanted it to autoboost you to Peak Mortal Capability instead of requiring effort from any actual character(s).

When they were called out on this, Holden (don't remember if Morke did this as well) kinda doubled down on it instead of accepting the criticism and started arguing heatedly with the fan base instead of admitting he was in the wrong.
Also, Holden was a flaming asshole about it. When people called him out about the weird sex charms and how they possibly incentivised rape, his response was something like, "Well now I know who not to get in elevators with at cons," instead of ever considering that he could just add the work "consent" somewhere.

(Sorry for the CBT reference, mods. I'm not trying to bring that up again, just Holden's response.)
 
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Why is this hypothetical collection of nomads allowing their survival to be chained to the whims of one sorcerer to such a degree? Why would a group of nomads be willing to pack up and move from one place to another place 60+ times a year, when a 'normal' nomadic society would be more likely to have a much more seasonal range?
Off the top of my head? If they were already a highly nomadic civilization with cultural prohibitions against staying in one place for more than a tenday or so, like the dusk runners in Dragonmech.

In fact, let's just use the dusk runners for this, since Dragonmech needs love and its borderline Bronze Age backstory does make for easy adaptation in some cases.

So: the main way they sustained their eternal journey was by acting as connective tissue for more sedentary societies - ferrying messages, allowing other travelers to hang with them on the way to their various destinations for increased safety, etc., but most importantly through trade. When your annual travels take you from savanna to deep desert to coastal shores, it's not too difficult to find things that are common in one of your seasonal stops but rare in one of the others. Creation's rather bigger (and more varied) than Highpoint, but that just means having them wander a Direction, or more likely between the fringes of two connected Directions, instead of circumnavigating the setting in a decades-long cycle.

Thus, @Accelerator's proposition could be a symbol of how the modern dusk runners' success has made them decadent (at least by their ancestors' standards), such that they'd rather hire a Sorcerer to call water and food from thin air than bother themselves with foraging or -shudder- paying for basic supplies. You could even include a growing conflict where the current caravan leaders have realized that they can get away with adding extra trading stops or shortcutting parts of the route since they're no longer as dependent on things like watering holes, and the idea of disregarding centuries' worth of tradition (and possibly offend spirit allies in the areas they intend to stop visiting, or risk the attention of hostile factions that frequent the "new stops" being proposed) just to further pad the bottom line has certain elements of the tribe up in arms.

Alternatively, it could be that a plague/raksha incursion/massive war/irresponsible Sorcery/whatever has fucked up their traditional pathway, forcing them to turn to Sorcery as a last-ditch means of making up for watering holes and natural fodder that no longer exist.

As for how the hyper-nomadic tradition started? My first idea would be that their ancestors, freshly traumatized after the Great Contagion and the Balorian Crusade, were approached by a god of travel or caravans or the like who offered them patronage in exchange for essentially living their lives as a continuous prayer to him (most likely because the god in question's own stock portfolio wasn't looking so good after 90% of mortalkind died off), and he still maintains a vested interest in them as one of his primary revenue streams. Another option is that they originated as a group of refugees fleeing persecution, and developed their circuit over the following generations as staying on the move went from a matter of desperation to a matter of economics/tradition.
 
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