- Location
- my house
It's disappointing. Basically just an incomplete reskin
General Exalted Thread
There's this charmset, but it's kinda OP. Love the naming scheme though.
There was a bit of homebrew about the Gunstar Spiral, where a rogue Primordial had gone Zerg on Theion's tribe, and Autobot was actually a distant concern at best. Don't know if the information is still around though, or if it fell off the internet.
There was a bit of homebrew about the Gunstar Spiral, where a rogue Primordial had gone Zerg on Theion's tribe, and Autobot was actually a distant concern at best. Don't know if the information is still around though, or if it fell off the internet.
Alright, so Devil Tigers.
By this point, we're all well aware of their flaws and what's wrong with them,
A while back on SB, @Ryuugi started a discussion on Devil Tigers that spiral out into ways to improve them. There were two real ideas that came out of it, one relating to the souls of the Infernal and one relating to Heretical Charms.
In regards to Infernal Souls, there's always been some interest. Initially, it was hampered by the fact that to get there, you had to be Essence 8. Not that that'll stop dedicated players and/or homebrewers as @Aleph has demonstrated. Also as demonstrated, they can be a really cool way to demonstrate various things about your character, what they care about, etc. The idea that was talked about wasn't quite as good for that as the Kerisgame version, as instead of an Infernal's Souls being solely of them, they instead be external beings that were made into a part of them.
You'd take a mortal, or a demon, or god, or whatever and draw them into you. You'd take one of your Intimacies and mingle it with their Motivation and elevate them to the level of a Third Circle. Ryuugi in particular proposed using the idea as a way for Infernals to interact with and want to get involved with the setting, especially Yu-Shan. The place is a viper pit of powerful gods who all want something. Something you can offer them. And they can offer you quite a bit.
The god is not the river, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have influence over the river. Whether in terms of supernatural influence or mundane(ish) information. Not to mention contacts. Think of what you could do with someone like Nara-O in your back pocket. Or Scarazan, God of Divine Reallocation. Or Lytek. Or Ryzala. What could you offer them to make them into one of your Souls? How would you even get to them to make the offer?
I mean, hell. It's not like the baseline offer isn't amazing. Becoming a Third Circle Demon with all the attendant power(if not necessarily the resources) that it implies, plus a powerful Exalted ally who now has a vested interest in your continued well being. But even with that offer, you'd probably need something to sweeten the pot for gods of that standing.
It's much more of an outwards focus rather than the inwards focus of Kerisgame.
Now, in terms of Heretical Charms and Devil Tiger Charms, we're all aware of their flaws. The former had all of three canonical charms, one of which was worthless, another which was effectively worthless, and the last was merely subpar. The latter required spending close to a hundred xp for the privilege of homebrewing a charmset with equivalent power to the charms you've already got access to, that you have to start learning from step 1. Meanwhile, your buddy is spending the same xp on high Essence Yozi Charms and has come out pretty far ahead in terms of effectiveness.
The problems of Devil Tiger Charmsets are compounded by the fact that you've gotta homebrew them(not easy), they've gotta be balanced(also not easy), and they're pretty much only good for one game.
So I proposed that Heretical Charms instead invoke syncretised Titans. The Emerald Angel, for example, was an idea that was played with back in the day and could be an example of such a syncretised Titan. Others could be created from mixes of different Yozi and could form one(ish) set that could be easily transferred between games since instead of relying on one particular character, they rely instead on mixes and interactions of the Yozi, who are relatively consistent between games.
As for the Titans and what they are, that could also change depending on the needs of your game. They could be a metaphysical curiosity. Something weird Infernals do to get new powers. They might be nascent Primordials, being gradually created as an unintentional consequence of the actions of Yozi and Exalt alike. Or whatever else you could come up with.
As an added advantage, since these Charms would be rooted in pre-existing Yozi Charms, you can buy them at higher Essence levels than personalized Devil Tiger Charms.
Thoughts? Opinions?
By this point, we're all well aware of their flaws and what's wrong with them,
A while back on SB, @Ryuugi started a discussion on Devil Tigers that spiral out into ways to improve them. There were two real ideas that came out of it, one relating to the souls of the Infernal and one relating to Heretical Charms.
In regards to Infernal Souls, there's always been some interest. Initially, it was hampered by the fact that to get there, you had to be Essence 8. Not that that'll stop dedicated players and/or homebrewers as @Aleph has demonstrated. Also as demonstrated, they can be a really cool way to demonstrate various things about your character, what they care about, etc. The idea that was talked about wasn't quite as good for that as the Kerisgame version, as instead of an Infernal's Souls being solely of them, they instead be external beings that were made into a part of them.
You'd take a mortal, or a demon, or god, or whatever and draw them into you. You'd take one of your Intimacies and mingle it with their Motivation and elevate them to the level of a Third Circle. Ryuugi in particular proposed using the idea as a way for Infernals to interact with and want to get involved with the setting, especially Yu-Shan. The place is a viper pit of powerful gods who all want something. Something you can offer them. And they can offer you quite a bit.
The god is not the river, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have influence over the river. Whether in terms of supernatural influence or mundane(ish) information. Not to mention contacts. Think of what you could do with someone like Nara-O in your back pocket. Or Scarazan, God of Divine Reallocation. Or Lytek. Or Ryzala. What could you offer them to make them into one of your Souls? How would you even get to them to make the offer?
I mean, hell. It's not like the baseline offer isn't amazing. Becoming a Third Circle Demon with all the attendant power(if not necessarily the resources) that it implies, plus a powerful Exalted ally who now has a vested interest in your continued well being. But even with that offer, you'd probably need something to sweeten the pot for gods of that standing.
It's much more of an outwards focus rather than the inwards focus of Kerisgame.
Now, in terms of Heretical Charms and Devil Tiger Charms, we're all aware of their flaws. The former had all of three canonical charms, one of which was worthless, another which was effectively worthless, and the last was merely subpar. The latter required spending close to a hundred xp for the privilege of homebrewing a charmset with equivalent power to the charms you've already got access to, that you have to start learning from step 1. Meanwhile, your buddy is spending the same xp on high Essence Yozi Charms and has come out pretty far ahead in terms of effectiveness.
The problems of Devil Tiger Charmsets are compounded by the fact that you've gotta homebrew them(not easy), they've gotta be balanced(also not easy), and they're pretty much only good for one game.
So I proposed that Heretical Charms instead invoke syncretised Titans. The Emerald Angel, for example, was an idea that was played with back in the day and could be an example of such a syncretised Titan. Others could be created from mixes of different Yozi and could form one(ish) set that could be easily transferred between games since instead of relying on one particular character, they rely instead on mixes and interactions of the Yozi, who are relatively consistent between games.
As for the Titans and what they are, that could also change depending on the needs of your game. They could be a metaphysical curiosity. Something weird Infernals do to get new powers. They might be nascent Primordials, being gradually created as an unintentional consequence of the actions of Yozi and Exalt alike. Or whatever else you could come up with.
As an added advantage, since these Charms would be rooted in pre-existing Yozi Charms, you can buy them at higher Essence levels than personalized Devil Tiger Charms.
Thoughts? Opinions?
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
I'm curious about what happens if you persuade a Raksha (shaped and unshaped) to join this, or if you persuade a Dragonblooded.
I hope it doesn't grant charmshare- a better idea would be to grant more purviews to your excellency.
Honestly, this is a good idea, but to me this doesn't feel like an Infernal power. It should be Solar, (or maybe Lunar) and represent how the returning God Kings demonstrate their absolute mastery of Creation by anchoring their leal allies to their souls, or how Lunars bind Famiiars and can shapeshift into them or something.
Binding spirits to your soul doesn t have as much to do with the devil rockstar game as it would with those two, at least to me.
I don't like the idea of Titans- it seems to come completely out of nowhere.
I'm not sure if a better way to represent heretical charms exists, but my instinctive reaction to Titans is no. Just say you're fusing the purviews of these Yozis.
Maybe you draw on specific Third Circles? Like, SWLiHN might not have music as a purview, but Sanceline would. The Ebon Dragon might not have Virtue as a purview, but Dharma would. Something like that, with mechanics on how to socially interact with Yozi to inspire new Third Circles being optional.
The idea being that the Unquestionable provide a theme that is somewhat related to the Yozi while being tangentially different from it. So you can't have obvious opposing themes, but you can have something taht branches off from the normal.
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If I were to do that, I'd entirely limit it to existing demons. You can't do it to anything that isn't a demon descended from a Yozi who you have Charms from (possibly even an excellency prerequisite), but when you can do that, you hack off part of a Yozi you've already internalised and glue it to yourself. You can take First Circles you like and turn them into more powerful beings, and the same with Second Circles. It's basically taking the coadjutor and turning it up to 11, turning you into even more a Frankenstein's monster of stitched together Yozi parts.
(In this model, that's what you have to do if you wanted to become a full Yozi. You can't do it by learning a Charm - you need to hack Ligier out of Malfeas sky and stick him in your own chest. Now you're Malfeas anew - a Malfeas who was never inverted and never swore the Surrender Oaths. And oMalfeas is either fetich deathed or just plain usurped)
greensun
You shall all burn beneath my light!!!
People who say the Theion charm set is weaker missing the point. He is a rightful king, while Malfeas is a cast down tyrant.
Essentially, Malfeas is Dawn-Zenith, while Theion is Zenith-Dawn. Theion is more focused on ruling over people and his charms reflect that; he gains benefits if he has an urge or motivation towards ruling over people, and he has charms that enhance his defenses by the magnitude of people who are loyal to him can perceive him. He can get very very tough if he has an army of loyal soldiers backing him, but those defenses are subject to him having his army or city being there with him, so if he lacks followers around him for whatever reasons (he suffered heavy casualties during a battle, he's bathing by himself etc.) his defenses are reduced in effectiveness and increased in cost, whereas Malfeas has largely Permeant defensive effects that don't rely on anything but himself. He also lacks Malfeas's weapon and armor creation charms, the radiation charms, counter attack charm and his ability to just plain ignore penalties inflicted by damage.
On the other hand, he has a much wider suite of social effects than Malfeas, he can have himself heard no matter language barrier or distance (at the cost of only being able to speak old realm, able to force loyalty on people after beating up a champion (not murder or kill though) or destroy a monument or such like above resource 4 that they have an intimacy towards. On top of his own unique charms, he also gets damn near all of Malfeas's social enhancers and defenses, meaning he far stronger than Malfeas socially. His charms can also protect his subjects from shaping and attacks, something Malfeas can't do.
Essentially, Malfeas is Dawn-Zenith, while Theion is Zenith-Dawn. Theion is more focused on ruling over people and his charms reflect that; he gains benefits if he has an urge or motivation towards ruling over people, and he has charms that enhance his defenses by the magnitude of people who are loyal to him can perceive him. He can get very very tough if he has an army of loyal soldiers backing him, but those defenses are subject to him having his army or city being there with him, so if he lacks followers around him for whatever reasons (he suffered heavy casualties during a battle, he's bathing by himself etc.) his defenses are reduced in effectiveness and increased in cost, whereas Malfeas has largely Permeant defensive effects that don't rely on anything but himself. He also lacks Malfeas's weapon and armor creation charms, the radiation charms, counter attack charm and his ability to just plain ignore penalties inflicted by damage.
On the other hand, he has a much wider suite of social effects than Malfeas, he can have himself heard no matter language barrier or distance (at the cost of only being able to speak old realm, able to force loyalty on people after beating up a champion (not murder or kill though) or destroy a monument or such like above resource 4 that they have an intimacy towards. On top of his own unique charms, he also gets damn near all of Malfeas's social enhancers and defenses, meaning he far stronger than Malfeas socially. His charms can also protect his subjects from shaping and attacks, something Malfeas can't do.
I guess that begs the question what the Realm's legions should look and fight like; because those big ass roman equse shields are really made for extended skirmishing rather then extended melee engagements and given how huge your average daiklaive isn't exactly practical for formation fighting.
The Realm says "Hey, nice academy you have there, Anathema scum. Shame if something were to happen to it."
I love the idea of using a position in your soul-heirarchy as a bargaining point for other beings. Especially if you're a renegade Infernal who's courting support elsewhere, trying to buy enough time to complete your development and become a much riskier target to attack (presuming your goal is Primordial-hood, and not just being an exalt with some fancy bling).
For example, Ahlat always wanted to climb the ladder of power, and if an Infernal could convince him that shifting over to a deva would be a better option than finagling his way through heavenly bureaucracy, then that Infernal would gain not just Ahlat, but his Brides and all the infrastructure he controls. And by the time their enemies are finished hacking through all of that, a new figure rises up in the sky, with what was once Ahlat standing on its shoulder.
This opens up a whole lot of options for politicking, as you'd want to recruit beings who could meaningfully contribute to your cause beyond their own selves, but the most attractive options are already going to be in pretty good places already. There's also the fact that if you got someone really important, like Lytek, then you'd also get his enemies, and anyone who wouldn't want his knowledge of the exaltations to fall in your hands.
Conversely, I think that powerful demons would be less eager to do this, because they already live in that role. Convincing Ligier to move from Malfeas to the new guy is probably a hair shy of impossible, and I don't think that forcing this should be doable. As precedent, the Sidereal charm "An End to Darkness" requires willingness on the part of a demon to be turned into a god.
Weaker demons might jump at the chance, but then you're not optimizing your growth while still drawing a lot of heat on you. The major benefit for a demon here is to get out of hell, but until their Infernal patron has completed their development, they're at extreme risk of true death. So it might be more thematic to draw from demons, but it would be much smarter to draw from other sources.
Yes, but there's no thematic ground to permit that. That's the thing. The only thematic path Infernals have for adopting other beings as their souls is "staple bits of the Yozis onto me", because that's literally exactly what their entire path of development is about. Making Ahlat into a demon has no support in the Infernal themespace - corrupting him, yes, but not making him part of you.
Infernals are not a "do anything" splat, and that likewise is the problem with most Devil Tiger implementations. People use them as an excuse to do non-Infernal things, but that's the only real use for them because if you can write Infernal Charms you can basically work any effect you like into one of the six canonical Yozi Charmsets.
Charmshare is stupid.
What would happen is you get a Third Circle soul, which is a not inconsiderable boon.
The idea, as I understood it, is meant to be a riff off of Infernal temptation and corruption in the sense of the sort of deal that the Infernal themselves was offered. Also, sorta being a nega version of An End To Darkness.
As for making dudes into demons not being Infernal themespace, well.......There is Inner Devils Unchained sitting around as a precedent. Not to mention various geomancy Charms corrupting landscapes, and various Desecration effects that can make people into Creatures of Darkness. So it's not like it comes out of nowhere.
The idea of Titans is basically an excuse and I mentioned them as a "whatever you want/need" thing. If you don't like them, fuck them. It's basically just flavor text and can be ignored. They could be something that is coming about, or it just be that when you mix Pyrian and Malfean essence, you get green wings. Why is that? Because it just happens with no greater reason.
- Location
- The end of all things
Not to crush anyone's eager hopes and dreams, but this isn't quite correct. Only the art has been sent to WW for approval. (Though the manuscript has been complete for quite a while and may also have been sent.) The book itself has just started layout. Still, it shouldn't be too much longer now.
On the bright side, both Dragon-Blooded and The Realm are proceeding along nicely into the later stages of development, all the contracted writers having delivered revised drafts which are being stitched together by the developers.
No, it does. Because Inner Devils Unchained turns people into 1CDs. It's spiritual lessening, making them subservient to the Infernal - not making them part of the Infernal. Likewise, geomancy Charms and Desecration are also corruption, making things into the twisted aesthetics of the Yozis. Not fusion or making them part of you.
Dragonblooded literally have more thematic space for that than Infernals, because Dragonblooded have "By our powers combined" and "we're sentai heroes" and "brotherhood", which means there's totally room in the native Dragonblooded Charmset for them to fuse with each other (possibly after a fusion dance), to let their souls mingle so they lose some of their separation from their sworn brotherhood, or to make elementals of their Aspect into part of them (mechanically, a modified Familiar). Infernals are about becoming inhuman by making yourself more like the Yozis, so the only way they have to acquire extra souls is either "Grow souls like the Yozis do", or "Steal the existing souls of the Yozis and staple them onto you". The Yozis don't turn other beings into their souls (and the idea that the Sun is the Ebon Dragon's fetich remains bad fanon).
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Well, given that their main infantry seem to be made up of spearmen with large shields, I imagine something closer to a Diadokhoi phalanx would be a fairly natural fit. Shower the enemy in massed crossbow volleys as the distance closes, then fix them in place with an impregnable wall of shields and spears so Dragonblooded officers (or, optionally, heavy assets like Warstriders) can move independently, pick their moment and deal a decisive blow.
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Grounders10
Nine-Tailed Kitsune
- Location
- British Columbia, Canada, Mars
Except crossbows are a haslanti thing, not a realm thing. Slingers or archers are more likely.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Witness the implacable strength of Board-on-Bow Supertech Style! Mighty and irresistible! Truly the absolute cutting edge of military technology.
Edit: To be a little less sassy I mean c'mon, this is literally Three Kingdoms era
Repeating crossbow - Wikipedia
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- Location
- Canada
Haslanti being the only one's who have crossbows is terrible writing hated by a huge number of people on this forum and others. Especially when the Realm and Lookshy have ballista, which work on the exact same principles but scaled up.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
I am aware of this, and I am ignoring it. Crossbows being a Haslanti only thing is a piece of 2e-only canon that is phenomenally dumb. Crossbows are very simple technology that real-world nations have independently invented several times; the ancient Greeks had them from at least 400 B.C.E. onwards, the Vietnamese had them around the same time, Sun Tzu's The Art of War has a section on them.
The kind of Chinese army depicted in the video EarthScorpion showed above are absolutely valid and desirable sources for the Realm, which means the Realm has narrative reason to use crossbows. Too, it also has military need for them, since the capabilities offered by crossbows, that of ease-of-use allowing for the rapid and cheap training of inexperienced peasants into effective soldiers, is a perfect fit for the Realm, with its large population, powerful infrastructure and expansionistic desires giving them plentiful reason to quickly raise fresh armies.
The Realm has crossbows. It has large formations of conscript soldiers who have been efficiently marched through six weeks of boot camp to learn how to follow orders and shoot in massed volleys. Then it also has Dragonbloods who lead them who have spent countless hours on the range mastering their great jadesteel longbows.
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There is however, precedence for the Yozis accepting a soul from an outside source. Specifically, your interpretation of Lilun (sp?) in Kerisgame. IIRC she's an artificial construct built by other Third-Circles and bolted on to the Yozis who join the Reclamation.
Of course, I'm not privy to the details of her creation, but this would seem to imply that souls from outside the existing group can be adopted.
Edit: Of course, Kerisgame isn't canon, but I think it's fair to say that you guys put a fair amount of work into making things that would be canon-compliant or better.
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- Location
- Ottawa
Effect, sure. Theme, no.
As you no doubt know from writing a bazillion homebrew Yozi Charmsets, there's a lot of thematic ground that is appropriate for Infernals but not covered by the canonical Yozis.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
- Pronouns
- He/They
"The ancient Chinese's crossbow with a trigger mechanism was developed in the later Spring Autumn Perios (770-476 BC) and popular in the early Warring States Period (475-221 BC). The earliest one was found in the Tombs at Qufu, Shangdong Province and dated to the 6th century BC." - Teun Koetsier; Marco Ceccarelli (2012), Explorations in the History of Machines and Mechanisms
Crossbows are nearly as old as Rome - as in the city, because they're a few centuries older than the empire. The restriction of crossbows to Haslanti has always been something born of ignorant attempts to preserve the fantasy aesthetic (without regard for things like how simple crossbows are ensuring their proliferation even if other states can't acquire examples).
Rognthor Homebrew: Rognthor's Discount Devil Tiger
- Location
- my house
This started out as a small bit on how your ideas mirrored some of my own and has since transformed into "How Rogthnor Devil Tigers."
So first off, I'd like to say that my favorite part about playing an Indernal is the "Baby Primordial" thing they've got going on. I love the idea of the Devil Tiger charm but it does way too much, and it tries to do it all at once.
The biggest problem with Devil Tiger is that it tells players to scrap all the charms they have and to start making new ones. But that completely misses the point of the Yozi charms. Which ones the Infernal uses and how she uses them are key parts of her character. They aren't just what she does but in a very real sense who she is. So if I were to make an Internal into a Yozi I would do this.
Step 1:
Look at the charms your Infernal tends to use and how they work together. Which ones synergize well, what combinations does she keep going back to, how does she use them, etc. Then organjze them into their own charm tree with a root charm.
Look at the tree and ask yourself what that says about the character.
A Yozi's charm trees are a coherent statement of how they interact with the world. By looking at its charms we can work backwards and find out who they are and how they act. Cecelyne for instance has a charm tree based around giving gifts which make people dependent on her. This tells you a lot about her character.
You should do the same thing with your own character. What modus operandi arise from her charms and what does that say about her. I tend to try to boil it down to a statement. Cecelyne might be "I control those who need me". Then mark these down as a charm tree.
For Example, The Heretic Sky, an Infernal I am making ended up with this as a charm tree.
Crowned with Fury - what I like to call Kilgrave lite. Gives him an aura of supernatural command. Can also be used to make someone temporarily mad under Oramus definition, through UMI emotions.
Fealty Acknowledging Audience - Makes people who serve him feel terrified awe so that they will do what I say. Also, if I'm reading it right, makes people Mad under Oramus definition. This will be important for some later charms and his themes.
Ancient and Firstborn - Declare something to be true and always act as if it is. Never break an oath. The root charm of his Truth/The State defines the Truth themes. Combos really well with the next charm on this list.
That Horrific Wisdom- Success doubled for social attacks which attempt to "instruct, educate or reveal truths to a character." So as long as the Infernal believes his reasoning he gets a success doubler. Good thing Ancient and Firstborn lets him decide what he believes to be true.
Action Beyond Thought - Hidden mental commands which activate based on conditions he sets. Works better on mad people i.e people he has branded with Fealty Acknowledging Audience.
Preacherborn Delusions - Rewrites the memories of people. Works better on the mad i.e. people branded with Fealty Acknowledging Audience.
Society-breaking Truths - changes the way whole societies act by revealing a truth.
Fealty Acknowledging Audience - Makes people who serve him feel terrified awe so that they will do what I say. Also, if I'm reading it right, makes people Mad under Oramus definition. This will be important for some later charms and his themes.
Ancient and Firstborn - Declare something to be true and always act as if it is. Never break an oath. The root charm of his Truth/The State defines the Truth themes. Combos really well with the next charm on this list.
That Horrific Wisdom- Success doubled for social attacks which attempt to "instruct, educate or reveal truths to a character." So as long as the Infernal believes his reasoning he gets a success doubler. Good thing Ancient and Firstborn lets him decide what he believes to be true.
Action Beyond Thought - Hidden mental commands which activate based on conditions he sets. Works better on mad people i.e people he has branded with Fealty Acknowledging Audience.
Preacherborn Delusions - Rewrites the memories of people. Works better on the mad i.e. people branded with Fealty Acknowledging Audience.
Society-breaking Truths - changes the way whole societies act by revealing a truth.
So from this we get a Infernal with a magical authority aura who uses it and what he defines as the Truth (I am the greatest king, you should obey me) to get them to swear fealty to him. Once he does he then becomes even more effective at controlling them, able to rewrite their memories, being even more convincing and planting hidden mental triggers in their minds.
So we end up with the theme of "Truth is Defined by Authority" as one of his major themes.
"Truth is defined by Authority"
As long as he believes something is true he is supernaturally good at convincing you of it, and he can define truths at a whim. (Ancient and Furestborn: We were never at war with Eurasia. He now doubles successes to convince you of this) He is then able to rewrite the memories of his citizens to match this new truth (Preacherborn delusions + Fealty Acknowleding Audience) and make society act as is it's true (Society-breaking Truths so that saying we were at war with Eurasia last week is taboo).
Once you do this with all your charms you can move onto the next step
Step 2: Purchase "Rogthnor's Discount Devil Tiger Charms
This charm would do a couple of things. First it would allow the Infernal to take Pantheon Anchored charms ala @EarthScorpion 's great homebrew, only anchored in her new charm trees instead of a third circle demon.
Second it would replace your Excellency's with a new one specific to your character. This would refund you the cost of any lost Excellency's but you would never be able to learn new ones.
Third it would allow you to prune the excess charms from your character and get refunded XP for them. If there are charms that you only got because they are prerequisites for other charms and you never use them then you can trade them in for bonus XP and not lose access to ones which you already have. This is a one time offer. If you get rid of Insignificant Embers Intuition and keep Skyfire Seizing Repast you can. But if you want to get Sun Heart Furnace Soul you'll need to buy IEI again.
Three you can make minor changes to existing charms to make it match theme better. You can change Green Sun Nimbus Flare from radioactive fire to a crushing darkness for instance, but it would change all charms that use Green Fire as well.
I'll probably write up a full example devil tiger charms list, before and after devil tiger, for The Heretic Sky this weekend if someone reminds me.
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In regards to making non Deva's into Infernal Souls.
Because of course talking one of Autochtons souls into becoming part of ones soul structure (Then discovering that his Titantic Cancer came with it) would be dramatic.
Back to my point: I'd allow Elementals to be the other exception, not the Elemental Poles themselves though.
Its taking in the Exalts base nature as a part of Creation and retuning themselves to the Primordials designed Realm.
Sure being Elementaly unbalanced may caise all sorts of issues , but PCs can totally handle that
Because of course talking one of Autochtons souls into becoming part of ones soul structure (Then discovering that his Titantic Cancer came with it) would be dramatic.
Back to my point: I'd allow Elementals to be the other exception, not the Elemental Poles themselves though.
Its taking in the Exalts base nature as a part of Creation and retuning themselves to the Primordials designed Realm.
Sure being Elementaly unbalanced may caise all sorts of issues , but PCs can totally handle that