No, neither would be Outsiders.

They are native to Creation as just another Primordial Race. The Yozis had to be mutilated at a soul level and their imprisonment makes them Outsiders - they weren't so in the War. Hence, the Lintha won't be Outsiders.

Hmm. Actually, they've go enough modern demonblood in them that they might. I can't remember if I said what -blooded counted as. Okay, so Lintha demonblooded might be Outsiders, but that comes from demon in them, not their Lintha heritage.
So the Lintha aren't outsiders for much the same reason that the Jadeborn aren't, is what your saying? And all the other primordial races also wouldn't count as Outsiders?

Unless, of course, they've added some demon recently to "increase the blood purity". Which has always made me think of Lintha as pirate nazis. Going around, seeing how Slavic Realm you are, organising people based on how close they are to the pure aryan Lintha race. And if you showed them they're ancestors they wouldn't recognize them as "pure". Wonder if that was intentional.
 
So the Lintha aren't outsiders for much the same reason that the Jadeborn aren't, is what your saying? And all the other primordial races also wouldn't count as Outsiders?

Unless, of course, they've added some demon recently to "increase the blood purity". Which has always made me think of Lintha as pirate nazis. Going around, seeing how Slavic Realm you are, organising people based on how close they are to the pure aryan Lintha race. And if you showed them they're ancestors they wouldn't recognize them as "pure". Wonder if that was intentional.

The way I read the Lintha, they're basically intended as being nega-Deep Ones. Instead of being a corruptive influence and OH NO I WAS ONE OF THEM ALL ALONG HOW DARE THEY MISCEGENATE, they're instead obsessed with blood purity, afraid of anyone else contaminating their bloodlines, massively racist, and... well, they're basically HP Lovecraft as a cannibalistic sea-elf.

(Oh yeah, they're also the closest thing to traditional fantasy elves, with both the "dying race" and "can breed with humans" stuff)
 
@EarthScorpion @Aleph I'm starting a game of 2e, and while I love what I've read of the setting, I've heard the mechanics end up being awful. What books and rules would you say are absolutely essential to make the game as much fun as possible?
I'm neither of those people, but
a) signal boosting and
b) Why not use 3E? It's overall much simpler, with only a handful of stuff that can hurt a game (the character creation system, easily replaced via simple house rules, and a handful of charms). The combat system is much more interesting, the social system is more dynamic and less blatantly instant-brainwashing, the crafting system...okay that one's a mess, the sorcery system is more fun, and so on. The only drawback is that you can currently only play solars, and of course if you actually dislike one of those new systems.
 
So I'm working on an Infernal for my group's next game, an Adorjani/Kimbery monster I've nicknamed Murder Buddha. I've decided that Murder Buddha is going to have a very nice Artifact knife which he or she uses to save everyone from the pain of existence (sure, Murder Buddha's charm for that condemns them to a slow death of 10,000 years, but compared to the millennia of suffering their soul has definitely been through, that's nothing.)

Unfortunately for Murder Buddha, none of the canon Artifact Knives have powers I would want. So, I'm looking for suggestions for Artifact Knives.
 
Besides, as I have said before we already had a 'what happens when you give mortals a gods power' since, like the book about Rathess where it established that gods can merge with mortals (or even Exalts) and boost their power considerably. We didn't need Vague Handwavey Mystic Name for a thing that has been around since, like the fourth or fifth book in the game.
Was just catching up on the thread and feel compelled to point out that these beings were called Chosen, the term was later given to the Exalted.

Since I've already likely made an out of flow comment, I might as well give my view on the Exigents. Initially, I was put off of the idea of them. They seemed to be included to induce special snowflakes and I tend to find such things irritating. Now though, I've grown somewhat fond of the idea. I do, however think there should be some restrictions on what they are, how they grow, and the process of an Exigent's creation. As far as creation goes, I feel that the best way to do so is to have the flame of Exigence completely consume any god that uses it. The god's existence would be forged into a star that is then fused into a mortal's soul structure. I also feel that things like mote pool and max essence should be scaled to the god who was sacrificed to make a new Exigent. This would mean that a lowly Essence 3 or Essence 4 god could never create an Exigent that would rival a Dragon Blooded. To make something comparable to a Celestial, you would need something on the scale of the Incarna themselves to sacrifice themselves.

My apologies if this comment is disruptive to the current discussion.
 
I'm neither of those people, but
a) signal boosting and
b) Why not use 3E? It's overall much simpler, with only a handful of stuff that can hurt a game (the character creation system, easily replaced via simple house rules, and a handful of charms). The combat system is much more interesting, the social system is more dynamic and less blatantly instant-brainwashing, the crafting system...okay that one's a mess, the sorcery system is more fun, and so on. The only drawback is that you can currently only play solars, and of course if you actually dislike one of those new systems.
My group wants to be a mixed party
 
As far as creation goes, I feel that the best way to do so is to have the flame of Exigence completely consume any god that uses it. The god's existence would be forged into a star that is then fused into a mortal's soul structure.

I believe they said that this can happen and does happen a lot. the Field Guardian that Exalts Strawmaiden Janest being an example of it. I think requiring it to happen everytime feels a little bit restrictive in a boring way.
I also feel that things like mote pool and max essence should be scaled to the god who was sacrificed to make a new Exigent. This would mean that a lowly Essence 3 or Essence 4 god could never create an Exigent that would rival a Dragon Blooded. To make something comparable to a Celestial, you would need something on the scale of the Incarna themselves to sacrifice themselves.

Sounds kinda fiddly. Isn't it enough to just say that lesser gods are often consumed in the process, and that it's unlikely that they'll produce Exigents which rival the power of the Celestial Exalted?
 
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Alchemical and Infernal for sure, don't know about the other two yet though
See, that's one of the difficult combinations. You can do it, but the books really don't help you: Alchemicals are designed entirely with being played with minimal interaction with the rest of Creation. Mechanically you can introduce them, but the setting isn't written with them in mind. And Infernals, well, Infernals are fun but the book for them has extremely problematic setting chapters. Not to mention their charms don't work the best under 2.5.

It'd be significantly easier on you to do a single splat, especially if you aren't familiar with the setting at the start.
 
Alchemical and Infernal for sure, don't know about the other two yet though

Uh.

Those two character types really don't mesh well in the same party. Power levels, the fact that Alchemicals are locked away from the rest of Creation, the fact that I have no idea how they'd be working together even so (both sides would have a good idea who each other are and little no reason to trust each other)...

My advice: consider asking them whether not being able to play a mixed party for a first game is a deal breaker here, because playing all-Solars is, IMO, much easier on a first-time ST.
 
Uh.

Those two character types really don't mesh well in the same party. Power levels, the fact that Alchemicals are locked away from the rest of Creation, the fact that I have no idea how they'd be working together even so (both sides would have a good idea who each other are and little no reason to trust each other)...

My advice: consider asking them whether not being able to play a mixed party for a first game is a deal breaker here, because playing all-Solars is, IMO, much easier on a first-time ST.
Dragonblooded are also a pretty good choice due to slightly less power. Hell, all Alchemicals can work well, as the smaller setting of Autobot can be helpful at times.
 
I was only half joking when I was talking about fansplats being out for Ex3 well before anything official. The way I understand it, there's a fully functional Sidereal adaptation, a Dragonblood adaptation that's like 80% done, and a Lunar project in the works (and I think someone on /tg worked on an Alchemical adaptation too, but I don't know how far that got). If you want to run a mixed party that badly for your first game, it still might be easier and less work to chance dicey balance from third edition homebrew than trying to wrap your head around the many, many house rules you'd need to get multisplat 2 or 2.5 working.
 
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Gasping Babe
Yidak
Dead by Stillbirth
Is it bad that this gave me a mental image of a well-meaning but possibly misinformed healer-slash-necromancer who captured one of these and stored it in a jar as an emergency measure to be released into a baby in case of a still-birth? What would even happen if someone tried that?
Grave Embers
Yidak
Dead by Violence
I think I've seen something like that before in a graphic novel...
 
Would combat lethality be solved if you gave everyone like 35 health levels at chargen? In 2e? There's probably a reason nobody's done it, but I'd like to know why.
 
Would combat lethality be solved if you gave everyone like 35 health levels at chargen? In 2e? There's probably a reason nobody's done it, but I'd like to know why.
It doesn't really solve things, just delay and give a bit of leeway. You're not going to be one shooting people without some charm use, but that's only a part of combat lethality, and this doesn't touch stuff like the doom spiral or mote attrition. What it does is make combats last longer, which in 2nd isn't the best idea. Paranoia combat already lasts a long time. In 2.5 it might help a bit.

Oh, and it makes easy combat time regeneration even more stupidly good, but that's been something in the system for a long time now.
 
Dragonblooded are also a pretty good choice due to slightly less power. Hell, all Alchemicals can work well, as the smaller setting of Autobot can be helpful at times.
Alchemicals are honestly my splat of choice for new players in 2e- yes, their a little book keeping heavy, but their not broken three ways to Sunday. DBs on the other hand... I've played in a DB game. I've had an absolute blast, and I am sad Omi never got us further.

I would never recommend mixed splat DB play, and for gods sake use the errata. A lot of what DB's can do is small and stunt fodder, but mixing it with other splats- who will tend to do the same thing as the DB in half as many charms- is a recipe for disaster.

Mind, I have had a DB player in a mixed Sidereals/Lunars game I ST'd, and she was potent to the point Padma was the groups best fighter, but that game was high XP as hell, and @Crumplepunch, the player, did an insane amount of homebrew- as in rewrote the Immaculate Styles to be on par with other CMA's, lots of custom charm work, and Crumple probably knows DBs the best out of any player I know. So it's possible, but I can't recommend it for most players.

Also, I echo what the others have said: mixed splat parties are tricky to run. And I say this having run one for something like three years. Its a lot of work on the GM side keeping track of what players can do and might want, and balancing out combat gets... interesting. Actually, balancing out differing splat approaches is tricky, as they all approach problems in different ways, which means a lot of problems you toss their way will get sidestepped- or the one Lunar will jump on the enemy ship that is evacuating and leave the rest of the non-shape shifting party behind.

Bloody Lunars. Also bloody Sidereals, in particular Chosen of Secrets. Can't hide nothing from them (why did I run a conspiracy setting. Whyyyyyyyy).
 
Alchemicals are honestly my splat of choice for new players in 2e- yes, their a little book keeping heavy, but their not broken three ways to Sunday. DBs on the other hand... I've played in a DB game. I've had an absolute blast, and I am sad Omi never got us further.

I would never recommend mixed splat DB play, and for gods sake use the errata. A lot of what DB's can do is small and stunt fodder, but mixing it with other splats- who will tend to do the same thing as the DB in half as many charms- is a recipe for disaster.
Oh, yeah, this was recommendations for single splat gameplay, not mixed.
 
Would combat lethality be solved if you gave everyone like 35 health levels at chargen? In 2e? There's probably a reason nobody's done it, but I'd like to know why.

Because it turns combat from necessary slog into torturous accounting? Combat in Exalted take a lot of steps in order to resolve, adding more health just drags things on. It might work, but are you really willing to spend your whole session for one single encounter?
 
Oh, yeah, this was recommendations for single splat gameplay, not mixed.
Ah. Tons of fun in that case, provided your using errata so your charms, well. Do things. And you keep a tight grip on artifacts, which can get pretty gonzo otherwise. And control chargen generally so one PC doesn't massively outpace the others (Breeding, Outcastes vs everything else, CMAs...)

Once you've dodged all the chargen mines, playing DBs is pretty awesome- your unquestionably powerful, but DB limitations means you have to be pretty tactical about it. As opposed to other splats more, lets call it a steamroller approach.

Well, I find that fun at least. I also tend to have way to much fun working in elemental associations into my DB characters.

...now I want to play one of my DBs again, dammit.
 
...unless I'm badly misremembering my reading of the core and a number of dev statements, no they're not.

Indeed, one of the stated reasons behind the Exigents was to open the door for new Exalted untied to the Primordial War and prehistory.
No, Exigents are definitely among the original models. Can't let all those lesser gods freeload just because they got retconned out helping create Dragon-Blooded.

Perhaps you were thinking of how the Sun almost never granted access to the Divine Fire necessary to create Exigents while his face was turned from Creation?

A direct quote:
John Morke said:
However, Exigents were well established by then, and have their origins in the divine revolution against the enemies of the gods.
 
Actually, when did the sun turn his face away?
Towards the end of the First Age.

Games of Divinity said:
The Exalted grew proud and eccentric, prone to fits of temper and self-indulgence. Once, they had been semi-divine beings sprung from men. Now, they were simply men with vast powers and short tempers. They grew indolent and prideful, and their Realm became corrupt. In time, the priests of the Realm, who had once conveyed the worlds of the Unconquered Sun, began to speak for their patron, using his name to justify the most outrageous of excesses. Again, like roots in stone, the death curse of the Primordials worked its way into the cracks of the Realm and split their world apart.

The Unconquered Sun, disgusted with the hubris of his followers and blind in his own hubris to the workings of the curse, turned his back on the Realm. The dreams of his priest became merely dreams, and the portents they had once witnessed were now merely odd coincidence. Their rule faltered, and there was unrest and banditry. The rich committed great injustices against the poor, and the natural order was offended by a thousand decadences.

Thus were sewn the seeds of the destruction of the Old Realm and the end of the Golden Age.
 
Actually, when did the sun turn his face away?
As mentioned, near the end of the First Age, and for all its faults 2e managed to make the straw which broke the camel's back the result of something so monstrously petty that it sealed the deal on the Unconquered Sun being legitimately justified in his response, however badly it turned out.

The Solar Deliberative invoked his name and station as the ruler of Heaven, "as so He says so it shall be," to pass themselves a bigger break on taxes.
 
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