Fate/Clusterfuck (Fate/Stay Night)

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Huh Taiga is possible? I can't even imagine that route. It won't matter because Sakura is usually the ship that goes in FSN quests.

Edit: Is Issei in love with Shirou or is that just a recurring joke?
 
Erien said:
She's a romance option in this story.
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You didn't specify for who. Taiga is a light haired, boisterous, lazy braggart swords woman who doesn't do all that much but talks up how great she is and has a pit for a stomach. Oh, and a teacher. She very much falls into sharing qualities with a number of medea's historical and canonical types. Tiger goddess & the Elfen ex-Princess?
 
Darkcore41 said:
Huh Taiga is possible? I can't even imagine that route. It won't matter because Sakura is usually the ship that goes in FSN quests.

Edit: Is Issei in love with Shirou or is that just a recurring joke?
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Shirou attracts women like a lamp does a moth. Seduce them all.

Issei is implied to have a crush in the game.
 
*Sigh*

Rider might also be Helen of Troy. You know the Greek Demigoddess that got used as a prop in the Trojan War? That sounds like something that fits Illya.

Anyways on Shirou and Kitsurugu: They are villains. In fact every character in the original Fate trilogy would be a fascist villain if transplanted into any non-grimdark setting. Yes even Rin, though she specifically is more of an Anti-Villain. Avenger Emiya who is an Alter of Archer Emiya only exists after Unlimited Blade Works and Rin halping Archer come to terms with his situation.

But back to Shirou and Kisturugu specifically:

Kitsurugu is like if someone took a Demon Hunter like say Dante from Devil May Cry and then made him an emo asshole with a veneer of professionalism and decency. At no point does Kitsurugu figure out a way to separate his wife from the Grail and then hook her up to some sort of life-support after carving her heart out even though he has separation quite literally as his magical affinity what with having the Dual Origin of Severing and Binding. The man had the power to save people from most damnation in Fate and instead used it only to kill and to teach people to become killers.

Shirou on the other hand in all his Servant forms is an Unknown Soldier who damned himself trough Sloth, specifically the version where he is incredibly tenacious, but can't exaptate let alone adapt to his situations. It's why none of the Servant Shirous ever made their own swords and Avenger just chucks his own internal makeup into his targets to give them sword-cancer instead of doing something more targeted.

Watched. I want to see where this goes.
 
I don't even... what?

Dmol8 said:
Anyways on Shirou and Kitsurugu: They are villains. In fact every character in the original Fate trilogy would be a fascist villain if transplanted into any non-grimdark setting. Yes even Rin, though she specifically is more of an Anti-Villain.
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So uhh, I have to challenge multiple points here. 1: how is Shirou a villain? His primary driving goal going into things is to save as many people as he can, and this changes as his character develops across the three routes. 2: Kiritsugu could qualify as a villain, but is really more of an anti-hero. Vaguely noble goals, awful methods. 3: Do... do you know what a fascist is? 4: Rin is just straight up a good person who was raised by an absolutely awful person, so thinks she needs to put forward a hostile mask.

Dmol8 said:
Avenger Emiya who is an Alter of Archer Emiya only exists after Unlimited Blade Works and Rin halping Archer come to terms with his situation.
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I'm vaguely curious what fanfic you read and internalized as canon, because there is no canon Avenger Emiya whatsoever. EMIYA Alter is a version of Shirou that ties into Kiara Sessyouin and broke there, completely unrelated to the UBW route. And he's an Archer, not an Avenger. The only thing I could think of that comes close to an Avenger EMIYA is Angra Mainyu in F/HA, but that's not EMIYA or Shirou, that's literally just Angra Mainyu pretending to be Shirou as he uses Shirou's body. Also, Archer is always dead at the end of the UBW route. Well before the end really.

Dmol8 said:
Kitsurugu is like if someone took a Demon Hunter like say Dante from Devil May Cry and then made him an emo asshole with a veneer of professionalism and decency. At no point does Kitsurugu figure out a way to separate his wife from the Grail and then hook her up to some sort of life-support after carving her heart out even though he has separation quite literally as his magical affinity what with having the Dual Origin of Severing and Binding. The man had the power to save people from most damnation in Fate and instead used it only to kill and to teach people to become killers.
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I... what? So uhhh, I might be mis-remembering, but by the time Kiritsugu confronts 'Irisviel' in the 4th Grail War, Iri is straight up dead, and that's a simulacrum Angra Mainyu formed out of the grail mud. And further, you're ascribing a lot of very complex theoretical and medical competency to an assassin. Just because he has an affinity for something doesn't mean he has the knowledge of how to do it.

Dmol8 said:
Shirou on the other hand in all his Servant forms is an Unknown Soldier who damned himself trough Sloth, specifically the version where he is incredibly tenacious, but can't exaptate let alone adapt to his situations. It's why none of the Servant Shirous ever made their own swords and Avenger just chucks his own internal makeup into his targets to give them sword-cancer instead of doing something more targeted.
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I'm not sure where you're getting the idea of Shirou damning himself through Sloth, because uhh, no, that's kinda absolutely not his thing. EMIYA made a deal with Alaya because he was too motivated to keep saving people, not through apathy or laziness. As to making their own swords... when you pick up the contents of the Gate of Babylon, and all sorts of random other shit, what exactly are you going to make yourself to surpass that?

Again, there is no Avenger EMIYA, though it it sounds vaguely like you're talking about EMIYA Alter (an Archer), who condenses he reality marble into a bullet and shoots it into people, and then lets the swords explode out of it, but there's not really anything cancerous involved, and it's pretty damn targeted.


It overall reads like you read a bunch of dark fanfics and conflated those with the original source material, and it's making you take a significantly harsher view of the characters than is really justified.
 
Dmol8 said:
*Sigh*

Rider might also be Helen of Troy. You know the Greek Demigoddess that got used as a prop in the Trojan War? That sounds like something that fits Illya.

Anyways on Shirou and Kitsurugu: They are villains. In fact every character in the original Fate trilogy would be a fascist villain if transplanted into any non-grimdark setting. Yes even Rin, though she specifically is more of an Anti-Villain. Avenger Emiya who is an Alter of Archer Emiya only exists after Unlimited Blade Works and Rin halping Archer come to terms with his situation.

But back to Shirou and Kisturugu specifically:

Kitsurugu is like if someone took a Demon Hunter like say Dante from Devil May Cry and then made him an emo asshole with a veneer of professionalism and decency. At no point does Kitsurugu figure out a way to separate his wife from the Grail and then hook her up to some sort of life-support after carving her heart out even though he has separation quite literally as his magical affinity what with having the Dual Origin of Severing and Binding. The man had the power to save people from most damnation in Fate and instead used it only to kill and to teach people to become killers.

Shirou on the other hand in all his Servant forms is an Unknown Soldier who damned himself trough Sloth, specifically the version where he is incredibly tenacious, but can't exaptate let alone adapt to his situations. It's why none of the Servant Shirous ever made their own swords and Avenger just chucks his own internal makeup into his targets to give them sword-cancer instead of doing something more targeted.

Watched. I want to see where this goes.
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Fascist? Villain? Shirou? I agree that his main problem is sloth, being unable and unwilling to move past his father's death, and being unwilling to adapt his ideals. Ultimate Blade Works is this personified, allowing him to create derivative works that can overpower the original.

But I wouldn't call him a villain or fascist. Shirou is too dedicated to heroism. He's a person who always chooses to sacrifice himself for the greater good and always will fight against the greater good if it demands the sacrifice of others.

I don't say this to aggrandize him, but he is not a villain, i belive a brighter world would allow him to live up to his ideals while also helping him move on.

Would a darker world not punish for his attempted heroism?, or crush him before he could do any good?
 
Erien said:
I'm very curious as to why people think Shirou suffers from sloth.
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Not physical Sloth, although we typically think of Sloth as not physically applying oneself, the actual sin also has to do with wallowing in depression, lack of critical thinking, and being overly-simplistic.

I see Shiou as being slothful because his ideals came from his father, when faced with his magecraft being self-damaging he just tried harder, he didn't try to find another way, and also he's kinda dim/simple in general.

This is also why i think he's so good at Trace and why UBW is the way it is, he makes derivative copies that surpass the original, despite his slothfulness he has surpassed his predecessor in heroism and ability.

to quote the webcomic prequel
"It wasn't easier, the ghost explains, you just knew how to do it. Sometimes the easiest method you know is the hardest method there is.

It's like… to someone who only knows how to dig with a spoon, the notion of digging something as large as a trench will terrify them. All they know are spoons, so as far as they're concerned, digging is simply difficult. The only way they can imagine it getting any easier is if they change – digging with a spoon until they get stronger, faster, and tougher. And the dangerous people, they'll actually try this."
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Shirou is the spoon user in that he only uses one tool, a sword, and when faced with self destructive magecraft he did the insane, impossible thing, and committed himself to it, this is what makes him dangerous and also slothful despite his diligence.
 
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...Rin actually got to summon Saber (probably), Shirou getting proper magic, and somebody summoning Sauron and you're debating something as mundane as Shirou's mental state?

A more interesting question is how the other shoe is going to drop for Rin, since I'm pretty sure she's not allowed to be this lucky. :V
 
Erien said:
Vote locked.

Maximum Shirou.
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Okay, so major problem.

View: https://youtu.be/uAUKCQG1kCw

By some failure of mankind, no version of this video exists with the appropriate voice over. 12 seconds is the ideal time to insert it, but unfortunately, I have zero experience video modding. Can anyone be a Shirou and save us all from a lack of comedic voice overs?
 
1.0 - To Slay Monsters
  • Apocrypha

    • View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEy_4sG-K5s

    Today is my birthday so I wanted to write something perhaps a bit more out there and silly, this is not canon, just an omake. This is also, amusingly, the first appearance of Shinji in the story.

    ---

    Sakura Matou was a monster, this was the truth. She had to be, she was a dirty, monster that didn't deserve anything good to ever happen to her. She knew this. It had been taught to her. She was... filthy, infected. A million and one words and ways to hate herself. She knew this, she knew all of them. For it was all she had ever known, the times before the Zouken's were but a hazy memory, flashes of happiness hidden behind a melange of tragedies and inhuman cruelties.

    Sakura Matou was a monster. But she was surrounded by far worse. Every monster has a creator, whether a mad human, a god, or something even beyond those trifling existences. Sakura was surrounded by monsters, she knew this, she accepted this, and she lived with it. Her existence a nightmare, a cruel dream of which the only hope she had was a pitch black light, and a young man she had no dreams of ever obtaining. After all, she was a monster.

    These thoughts played through Sakura's mind as she stood before the summoning circle, Zouken watching from above and Shinji just nearby, eager to receive 'his' servant. Her hand outstretched, her mouth moving to speak the words long sense pounded into her mind as she called forth a servant into this world.

    Perhaps it would change things? Perhaps not. She was a monster after all, what did she deserve?

    ... But, even if by definition she was a monster, if she was by definition tainted.

    There are those who specialize in such things.

    The circle flashed red, then silver, then a bright, blinding white. It painted the room, revealing crevices long since hidden by darkness. Eldritch symbols painted onto the walls flashing to view before peeling away in flecks of paint and blood as the light erased them from existence. Distantly she could hear a maddening shriek, the worms beneath the mansion crying out in horror and revulsion, and she could feel it within herself as well.

    Zouken started to move, fade away.

    But he was not quite fast enough.

    The sound of a gunshot rang through the air, shards of silver bursting out the back of Zouken, his body melting into a pile of flaming, screaming worms. Shinji collapsed, not from injury, but from fright, his eyes wide and his body flailing as he tried to scramble away from the thing in the center of the summoning circle. It was hunched over, bleeding, it wore a tattered black coat that hugged its body, along with a black cloak that was deeper than the deepest black still in other spots, permanently marred and stained by ichor.

    The being was a man, once. He stood there, eyes yellow and wide, the lids were open to their fullest extent, but despite that tautness... there was wrinkles across the face and bags underneath the eyes. Speaking of a deep exhaustion and perhaps a lack of sleep.

    It was a monster, it was a berserker.

    But Sakura knew its name, how, she didn't know. But it revealed itself in her mind like a malaise. She spoke then, and changed everything.

    She was a monster, but... she had a slayer of monsters.

    Her good hunter.
     
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