LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Your basic attack is perfectly usable though? Just aim away from the people you don't want to hit.
Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!
- Thread starter Crystalwatcher
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- madison
the description of apocalypse's aoe is pretty vague, but I remember someone describing it as big enfogh to mess up a city in one shot. That tends to imply an AOE that's probably larger than the engagement range of our allies, and certainly larger than the engagement range of our enemies. you know, the things we'd be shooting if we used the okest part of the ability. We explicitly have not been using intercept because we are worried about catching our team in the splash. Now if I'm wrong about apocalypse's blast scale then supremacy zone will reach dizzying heights of being mediocre, further trivializing the already trivial prospect of a long-range shooting fight with things that don't hit as hard we do.
Last edited:
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
...it's nearly midnight and I'm on my phone, if this is to continue it will have to wait until I can put out a proper post on it.
For now: Apocalypse won't splatter your allies if they're behind you where they belong and you aim forward. If they're not behind you and, idk, engaged in melee for some godforsaken reason, shooting at them with your exploding doom beam the size of a Buick would be ill advised, but then firing into melee is a stupid thing to do regardless of whether you have apocalypse or not.
For now: Apocalypse won't splatter your allies if they're behind you where they belong and you aim forward. If they're not behind you and, idk, engaged in melee for some godforsaken reason, shooting at them with your exploding doom beam the size of a Buick would be ill advised, but then firing into melee is a stupid thing to do regardless of whether you have apocalypse or not.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Also because it occurs to me that I may have gotten side tracked: my original original point was that, objectively, supremacy zone is not a valid counterpoint for super abilities being strong, even if subjectively it's not very useful to nepgear right now.
- Location
- madison
I agree on most MG's it'd be quite useful to niche to be considered super strong, but then again most MG's are niche so if it matched their niche it would be ok. I stand by my statement that it's mediocre at best for us though, and frankly giving how each super abality is unique i'm judging it by how useful it is for the person who got it.
Even if we all misunderstood how friendly fire prone our AOE was, interception remains a rather meh form of defense without some bonus to it. If you lose the clash you've buffed an already strong attack to make it even stronger. Supposedly not all modifiers get reapplied when an attack wins a clash, but I've seen it happen a few times despite how rarely we see clashes.
also now I'm a bit annoyed that we misunderstood how bad Apocalypse was. It's still more a hindrance in my opinion, but it seems like it only makes our main attack useless around half the time rather than most of the time.
Last edited:
Um, sure Supremacy Zone might objectively be a good ability but if it's a poor fit for Nepgear it is, by definition, a bad ability for her. I will agree that Supremacy Zone isn't weak. It's highly specialized, which sets it apart from other Super Abilities we've seen since they are generally useful, but it's very good at what it does. It's just that what it does is pretty much useless for Nepgear and that's highly unlikely to ever change.
Supremacy Zone is quite clearly designed for a character that fights in active warzones as part of an army. SZ promotes flying high above your army and acting as a flying fortress. You are immune to ground based attacks, have LOS to every enemy attack for automatic Intercepting since they'll always be in front of you, every attack you successfully Intercept is pretty much guaranteed to kill the attacker, and your super effective (+50% damage, automatic Intercepts, and double damage on successful Intercepts) against the only people who can injure you (fliers). Combine that with the automatic bombardment of enemy armies and it's a build that promotes dumping all your XP into Purifier Beam to ensure you win all those Intercept challenges and completely slaughter anyone who challenges you. For such a build Apocalypse is great since every successful Intercept doesn't just take out the attacker but also everyone around him.
Nepgear meanwhile has spent her entire career as a Magical Girl as part of a commando team. Flying high is stupid for a commando since you have terrible LOS due to all the buildings and other hiding spots, Intercepts are useless since attacks can come from any location, and you attract every enemy in the area to you and your team. Similarly most forms of splash damage are terrible since your either going to kill your allies, attract everyone in the area towards you, or bring down the building crashing down on your heads.
Supremacy Zone would have been a great ability if we'd made very different choices early on. We didn't however so now it's somewhere between nearly useless and an active hindrance. Maybe if we ditched Team GEAR and starting jumping into warzones it would become useful but again we're never going to do that. Hell even the two warzone missions we have seem more like commando missions then ones where we act as part of an army. Which makes sense given that is what Nepgear's entire career has consisted of, that she's part of a commando team, and that she's proven quite excellent at commando missions.
However, later on, can/will take mission that'll benefit more from having it, and mission without Team GEAR will likely occur.
But if that doesn't happen soonish, it will remain not-that-great, because we'll have leveled past the point where armies are a real threat. We're already damn tanky, starshine is anti-army, and celestial severance is/will become a "fuck that general region" attack. Sure, Supremacy Zone is nice, and does some good stuff, but it doesn't really define our play style like Indistructable Core does. If anything, I'd say Segarite Core has more right to be called our second super ability. Even without the insane synergy with Indistructable Core, 75% healing per turn is pretty good. Hell, Core Connection, which isn't even listed as one of our abilities, has done way more to shape the gameplay, not to mention the story.
So what I'm saying is: Supremacy Zone is too irrelevant to be a good super ability, and too weak to make itself relevant.
There's one key aspect of Supremacy Zone that actually is extremely powerful for our usual playstyle, but hasn't been taken advantage of yet because it takes some training to use.
Supremacy Zone lets us use Intercept with ANY of our attacks.
That means that we can do a bit of training to be able to Intercept with Celestial Severance and Starshine.
That gives us the ability to Intercept enemy spells, including those aimed at our allies, and the fact that Celestial Severance has Unstoppable means that it pretty much auto-wins all Intercept conflicts.
Can you say that wouldn't contribute to our ability to survive anything that other people throw at us and our ability to keep our allies alive?
Crystalwatcher
(Verified GM)
- Location
- Limbo
Nepgear technically has a theme, but it's mostly involved with spoilers and shit.
That just means we ape that one useful aspect for a little while so we can get... I want to say Primordia (False) and then buy the true version.
I mean... A video game isn't going to suddenly be not shitty because it has one redeeming feature. It says something when the spinoff girl (Anna) can make better use of your Super Ability than you can when SAs are supposed to be basically tailored to each girl.
Being an ongoing nuclear explosion of PEACE?
- Location
- Elsewhere
ummm. It's better than/is primordia already.
It's a personal ability, not spell-specific.
Spells that can intercept can already intercept spells, no primordia needed.
it takes no actions to do. (I think, not sure on this.)
Spells with Intercept can Intercept other spells just fine.
Only non-spells need Primordia.
Having Intercept as a personal ability (which Supremacy Zone does with the small caveat of not working against attacks aimed at ourself if we're on the ground) means that every attack and every spell you have is capable of using Intercept.
So literally the only reason we haven't been intercepting things with our spells is because Nepgear has never tried to do so.
- Location
- madison
I think the final nail in the coffin for supremacy zone is how it's tied entirely to our basic attack, which we are terrified of leveling up because per workd of gm, if we upped it to the point where it would be more than an afterthought compared to starshine we would never be able to use it except in large scale army battles since the raw damage would give it an unusably large blast radius that would take more time than we have to train into something we could use.
It's why we pumped so much exp into spells. our basic attack is simply not useable most of the time, and making strong enough to be at all useful compared to our spells would make it utterly unusable.
It's why we pumped so much exp into spells. our basic attack is simply not useable most of the time, and making strong enough to be at all useful compared to our spells would make it utterly unusable.
We just explained that this is not true. Supremacy Zone means that we already have the ability to use our spells to Intercept regular attacks and spells used by enemies.
We've just never actually tried to do that.
- Location
- madison
I was mostly thinking of the bombardment. I'm leery of using spells to intercept because they have a lot of the same issues, mainly the safest one is a 50 meter long arc of white hot death. That's not something we want on automatic. That the players haven't killed anyone on their own side despite almost all of our attacks being splash heavy is a bloody miracle.
Last edited:
Actually, Starshine is fairly safe to use for Intercept. It does far more damage than the Purifier Beam (so it can win Intercepts against strong attacks), but does way less AOE than the Purifier Beam since it doesn't have an actual AOE related ability. It still does some AOE, but not the kind that's likely to hurt someone standing behind you when you're shooting it at something 40 feet in front of you.
Last edited:
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
Can we just let the Supremacy Zone talk rest? Frankly we've exhausted all of the topics covering it we can for now. Why don't we talk about the new MGs instead?
For example, I thought LDj's Horror Story was a really creative interpretation of a possible assassin MG. Very unique, and her Maker Bullshit looks rather effective while still having clear limits.
For example, I thought LDj's Horror Story was a really creative interpretation of a possible assassin MG. Very unique, and her Maker Bullshit looks rather effective while still having clear limits.
- Location
- Italy
So, I remember a quote about how when Gold fights with Red and Grey she don't really go all out and let them retreat or something similar, but i'm like at the 15th search of the thread and i can't find it.
Considering it's a pretty important part of the my rant on Goddess Gold, i'm just gonna ask here if someone remembers it or the great and all-powerful Crystalwatcher feels merciful enough to explain/re-explain it.
I don't want to post inaccurate fact,even if my rants are just hypothesis.
On the Supremacy Zone...guys, we are a divine magical girl and pretty much unfairness incarnate, i think we can accept a bit of "not having all the most unfair abilities" when there is probably a Story Maker magical girl out there whose strongest power is firing pancakes at people.:lol
Considering it's a pretty important part of the my rant on Goddess Gold, i'm just gonna ask here if someone remembers it or the great and all-powerful Crystalwatcher feels merciful enough to explain/re-explain it.
I don't want to post inaccurate fact,even if my rants are just hypothesis.
On the Supremacy Zone...guys, we are a divine magical girl and pretty much unfairness incarnate, i think we can accept a bit of "not having all the most unfair abilities" when there is probably a Story Maker magical girl out there whose strongest power is firing pancakes at people.:lol
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
TBF, they're infinite pancackes.
- Location
- Italy
Well, now we know the Dark Lord end game.
Who could resist to infinite pancakes? Ni is right, there is truly no hope for us
Jokes aside if she truly exist, she will probably have a traumatic backstory where a Children of Nighmares living pancake ate her whole family in front of her or something like that.
Sounds like an ability that the Medea Lily expy would develop
The world is doomed, I tell you. Doomed.
There will be nothing left but pancakes, covering everything. No light, no water, no earth.
Just pancakes.
...
Nora's in heaven; pity she doesn't exist in that reality, she might manage to save it.
- Location
- UTC -6
I think Rei mentioned that she was going to have to kill Ichi in an update somewhere. On my phone atm or I'd look myself.