Crystalwatcher's Magical Girl Quest!

While It'd be similar to Grand Dispel, it'd also be a completely different beast entirely. Affinity Kill is a good description of what it does, but even it can't completely knock a MG out of their transformed state.

what power source does the Transformation even use? human belief? if we could cut that off, would the MG either suddenly have to expend A lot of magic to sustain their own transformation whereas before it was a little or none (i believe they could sustain their own transformation because this only cuts them off from others belief, not their own. and after a long enough time with those abilities, one tends to believe in their abilities.), or would the transformation flat out stop working?
 
what power source does the Transformation even use? human belief? if we could cut that off, would the MG either suddenly have to expend A lot of magic to sustain their own transformation whereas before it was a little or none (i believe they could sustain their own transformation because this only cuts them off from others belief, not their own. and after a long enough time with those abilities, one tends to believe in their abilities.), or would the transformation flat out stop working?
Actually, the transformation works off the MG's own magic.

In order to awaken as a MG in the first pace, they use human belief to 're-define' their Magic into the necessary format to become a Magical Girl. After that, it's all them. The Goddesses? Had they not awoken as MGs then they'd have easily been in the category of "The Prodigies of Prodigies." The kind of talents that show up once in a millennium or so.
 
Actually, the transformation works off the MG's own magic.

In order to awaken as a MG in the first pace, they use human belief to 're-define' their Magic into the necessary format to become a Magical Girl. After that, it's all them. The Goddesses? Had they not awoken as MGs then they'd have easily been in the category of "The Prodigies of Prodigies." The kind of talents that show up once in a millennium or so.
What would Nepgear be, then?
 
What would Nepgear be, then?

I would like to point out there is clear evidence that nep is not a normal MG. divinity as an affinity outside of the gears and cores is reserved for girls who made a deal with a divinity, and Gaia does not read nep as part of her anymore. By all indication the sleeping [ASPECT] of [WAR] and [PEACE] fiddled with her awakening.
 
@justinkal is correct on the math. I think the Gehaburn calculation was an error on crystalwatcher's part, because it just doesn't make sense with anything else.

You know something has gone horribly wrong when people take your own attempt to clarify the math and start confusing you with it.
I try to be happy when this happens: at least I'm finding out now that I don't understand things as well as I could.

Thanks! So it's sort of a "no passive defense is good enough" effect. Just to make sure I understand, going through my list (plus some other stuff):
Armor of the Time Lord, ICORE's no-sell threshold, Supremacy Zone's damage negation, White Knight's Might of the King, Brilliant Key's The Endless Waltz No One Knows: Negated.
Insurmountable Perfection: Solar Radiance's MM roll is reduced to the attack's maximum MM. Unless its soft-mechanics defense against negation renders it immune. Or maybe it's outright negated.
Past the Clock (if the attack works via time shenanigans), Master the Music (sound-based attacks), Spawn of Mayhem's The Sound of the Inevitable, Existence Bonus-granted immunities (e.g. to Auto Kill): Negated.
Echo Dervish's Many Lives: Negated?
Warped Mirror's Intercept auto-win: Negated.
Defensive String: If ≥ Incoming Damage, set to Incoming Damage - 1.
False Existence: Part of the Defensive String.
Segarite Core: Negated unless the attack has higher DPS than its healing.
Spell Immunity (Armor of Light, Supremacy of the Light): Negated.
Skill-based Attack Negation: Unaffected.
Not Truly There: Unaffected, because it's technically an active choice to delete a body.
Auto Rhythm: Unaffected, because there's a chance the attack could get through.
Instant Recovery, Soul Record's Reincarnation Moment, The Hydra Problem: ???
The shapeshifter replacement problem: Unaffected?
Having multiple, non-Life Linked bodies (i.e. Cannon Fodder): Unaffected?
Morality Barriers: Negated. Unless this is a case of "things are different for Divine Beings".
The 'Kind' Monster: Unaffected.
Echo of Peace: Negated if it would reduce damage below the target's Resilience, otherwise unaffected.
Overwhelming Presence (we haven't seen a defensive one, but…): Unaffected, because OP.

Two questions left, then: In what order does it negate things? And how would it interact with Men Kill Heroes/Power Negation/etc.? More generally, if two Ability-negating Abilities come into conflict, which takes precedence?


Also, thanks for prompting me to remember how bullshit Warped Mirror (among others) is. I've been struggling with balancing an in-progress sheet, but now I think I'll just go for the most powerful version. Well, most powerful reasonable version; the actual most powerful version would give infinite damage. (It's a Boost spell which automatically maxes all rolls for a short time. Including Echo activation checks.)

Which, in the effort to keep the already complicated battle system from getting even worse, would render whatever sheet they're attached to in the non-canon section.
Naturally. Those ones aren't on sheets; I don't have any other abilities which would be thematically consistent.
Available space is the only limitation. And even then it's only a limitation until she starts summoning things that are big and strong enough to make the available space bigger. She isn't called Goddess Red for nothing.
OK, so… one casting every ten seconds, four hours of casting per day, five days a week, averaging 15,000 per cast =15,000*6*60*4*5=108,000,000 Spawn of Chaos per week, and they don't disappear naturally (if they did, that would limit the army's size). They also probably don't eat, sleep, or require much maintenance. Given that, I'd expect the UL and the Akashic Pillar in particular to have made significant use of them for garrison and long-term scouting purposes—there would be hundreds of thousands sitting around in cities and bases, and similar numbers just wandering around with orders to report any UD sightings. They can't have all gone to Hope—you don't completely empty your garrisons even in an emergency, and the ones in the field couldn't be recalled quickly enough—so a lot of them would have still been around when Ni turned. Fun times.

(Of course, I'm making some significant assumptions here, so that might be all wrong.)

And when I said "available space", I was thinking in terms of landmasses. I don't think she can make those bigger?

Pretty high up there.
Thought so.
Because at high-level MG combat, the Magical Girls in question are moving at speeds equivalent to a Type-MOON Servant. As in rocks are mid-fall and you're still trading blows. If a MG gets forced out of their transformation at those speeds, they're going to splatter like a bug on the window of a bullet train.
*Looks at Attacks per Turn*
*Looks at Flight and High Speed Combat levels*
*Looks at distances, reaction times, and people whose defense is offense*
*Looks at blows which can injure MGs and the effects of hitting stuff at high speeds*

…Well, my understanding is that Servant feats are inconsistent and don't have appropriate physical effects, so I can't really contradict that part. Though APT numbers in particular seem really weird next to this kind of statement—Red Rose can attack an average of once every two seconds, but also gets in twenty blows per second (a rock, after falling seven feet, is moving at ~20ft/sec)? Yes, it's an abstraction, but does that really make sense?


Also, please add the Spawn of Mayhem stat sheet to the first post. Also missing from the first post are Ability Evolution, Unaligned Races, and War Chaser (plus all the other sheets, but War Chaser is confirmed canon).
 
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Insurmountable Perfection: Solar Radiance's MM roll is reduced to the attack's maximum MM. Unless its soft-mechanics defense against negation renders it immune. Or maybe it's outright negated.
Negated if it would stop the attack, left alone otherwise. (Hey, It could happen. Theoretically.)

Echo Dervish's Many Lives: Negated?
Negated.

Instant Recovery, Soul Record's Reincarnation Moment, The Hydra Problem: ???
Instant Recovery just removes body modifiers (you may be thinking of Goddess White's Instantaneous Regeneration, which would be negated.) Reincarnation Moment and Hydra Problem don't technically prevent you from killing them so much as it brings them back afterward, so they'd be unaffected.

The shapeshifter replacement problem: Unaffected?
I think so, yes.

Two questions left, then: In what order does it negate things?
The order is... largely irrelevant, but it always does Base Resilience last.

More generally, if two Ability-negating Abilities come into conflict, which takes precedence?
Goooona pass that one over to @crystalwatcher

And when I said "available space", I was thinking in terms of landmasses. I don't think she can make those bigger?
I mean, you can drain ponds by dropping enough rocks in them. Corpses are just squishy rocks, and the ocean is a really big pond, right? :V

*Looks at Attacks per Turn*
*Looks at Flight and High Speed Combat levels*
*Looks at distances, reaction times, and people whose defense is offense*
*Looks at blows which can injure MGs and the effects of hitting stuff at high speeds*

…Well, my understanding is that Servant feats are inconsistent and don't have appropriate physical effects, so I can't really contradict that part. Though APT numbers in particular seem really weird next to this kind of statement—Red Rose can attack an average of once every two seconds, but also gets in twenty blows per second (a rock, after falling seven feet, is moving at ~20ft/sec)? Yes, it's an abstraction, but does that really make sense?
Honestly speed is really janky in this system and if it weren't for the fact that it would make a giant mess that we'd have to sort out we'd probably revamp it so rounds were more like one second instead of ten.
 
I thought turns were generally ten seconds, but shifted around in response to dramatic tension.

:V Which leaves the poor sods with less character relevance huddling in foxholes and trying not to be noticed when things get to less-than-a-second-per-turn levels. A great excuse to keep background mooks sidelined.
 
Two questions left, then: In what order does it negate things? And how would it interact with Men Kill Heroes/Power Negation/etc.? More generally, if two Ability-negating Abilities come into conflict, which takes precedence?
Didn't I...

I asked it before and got told that higher growth affinity wins, and if that's equal then the two ability negation abilities negate each other but no other abilities get negated.
Answer this?

…Well, my understanding is that Servant feats are inconsistent and don't have appropriate physical effects, so I can't really contradict that part. Though APT numbers in particular seem really weird next to this kind of statement—Red Rose can attack an average of once every two seconds, but also gets in twenty blows per second (a rock, after falling seven feet, is moving at ~20ft/sec)? Yes, it's an abstraction, but does that really make sense?
Honestly speed is really janky in this system and if it weren't for the fact that it would make a giant mess that we'd have to sort out we'd probably revamp it so rounds were more like one second instead of ten.
4-5 seconds per round would probably be better.
I thought turns were generally ten seconds, but shifted around in response to dramatic tension.

:V Which leaves the poor sods with less character relevance huddling in foxholes and trying not to be noticed when things get to less-than-a-second-per-turn levels. A great excuse to keep background mooks sidelined.
Might go with @kelllogo's opinion.
 
You accidentally broke the end of the spoiler tag for the Canon section. The last 3 entries in that section are outside of the spoiler tag.
Fixed.


Also, on the Speed thing:

Also remember we're talking about individuals that can track objects moving more than 200mph as well as react to them. Even if they can't personally move at that speed, they can still watch those rocks fall.
 
Instant Recovery just removes body modifiers (you may be thinking of Goddess White's Instantaneous Regeneration, which would be negated.)
I was thinking of Instant Recovery on an autonomous weapon, specifically Gaia's WEAPONS and the Maidens of the Apocalypse. But you've clarified that auto-resurrect is unaffected, so it's unaffected.

The order is... largely irrelevant, but it always does Base Resilience last.
Not at all. Let's say someone hits James with an attack that does 6000 Damage and carries Sudden Death, while both Nepgear and Gabriel are on the field. If it doesn't negate Echo of Peace, it does 100 Damage. This is less than Presence of Light heals, so PoL would be negated. If it negates EoP instead, James takes 4,000 Damage.

For a different example, let's suppose the Sudden Death attack was Intercepted by an attack carrying Judgement or Smite (and is still affected by Echo of Peace), and the Intercept Damage is lower than the target's Base Resilience. Does EoP or Judgement/Smite get negated?

Or what if the target has a bunch of defensive buffs, which only barely add up to more than the damage—does the biggest buff get negated first, or the smallest, or is the Damage Reduction just reduced to Incoming Damage - 1, as I guessed before?

Or how about something like White Knight's Might of the King plus an Ability which, say, negates multi-hit Abilities?

I could keep going, but I think I've made my point.

I mean, you can drain ponds by dropping enough rocks in them. Corpses are just squishy rocks, and the ocean is a really big pond, right? :V
No, you can spread the pond out until it's too shallow to be called a pond, or rather—since there'll be space between the rocks—until you have a water-filled pile of rocks (assuming the water doesn't just seep into the ground). If you tried that with the ocean, you'd just raise sea levels by about a mile and a half.

Honestly speed is really janky in this system
As are Health scaling, Resilience, damage spreading,… But yeah, speed is one of the worst offenders.

Didn't I...
I asked it before and got told that higher growth affinity wins, and if that's equal then the two ability negation abilities negate each other but no other abilities get negated.
Answer this?
Where? Closest I can find is this, which says that higher Growth Affinities are outright immune to Ability Negation (unless the negating Ability bypasses that). Which is not what the Ability Bible says for Ability Negation as a Weapon/Spell Ability (different situations, though), and which may be different for things like Supremacy and Sudden Death, seeing as they aren't completely negated by Existence Bonuses.

Also, all recent sheets are now added to the lists.
Still missing Spawn of Mayhem.
Beth Squad (Unified Light / Counter Force / Would Witchout, but Can't)
…Fair. Also, I've been annoyed by that post's length for a while, so now it has anchor links at the top and people can actually find the sheets.
Strong for her level, certainly, but it didn't look completely unreasonable to me unless there's something in her hidden Abilities.

Also remember we're talking about individuals that can track objects moving more than 200mph as well as react to them.
Well, some of them. Explicit HSC has been surprisingly rare on top-tier sheets.
 
It's somewhere else, and thus not applicable to the list.
Oh? …Oh! Well, that explains some of the things you've said about them. And so obvious in hindsight!

(For those who don't want to look: it's linked on Ni's sheet, below her picture, right next to the Spawn of Chaos.)
She multiples her damage by whatever her Magic Modifier roll is. There's a reason she only gets one per level.
That'd do it.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Crystalwatcher on Oct 5, 2017 at 2:28 AM, finished with 359 posts and 24 votes.

  • [X] Plan Rain of Light
    -[X] Try and keep the distance between you and both of White Soul's bodies as small as possible.
    -[X] Once you are as close as you think you'll get cast Starshine at both of White Soul's bodies. You've already used it against dozens and hundreds of targets so hitting just two, and the area around them to avoid clone teleport shenanigans, can't be too hard.
    [X] [EXP] Plan Emergency
    -[X] Level Starshine to 17 (150+160=310)
    [X] Plan Don't Mess With Divinity
    -[X] Get some distance between yourself and the barrier, then taunt White Soul into using Soul Rend against you
    --[X] If that takes more than four turns, go ahead and blast her with Starshine; make sure to concentrate fire all around both of her bodies so she can not morph away
    -[X] The moment she does, charge at her and call out [PEACE] in the Conceptual Language from as close as possible to stop her from reacting, then cast Starshine on her
    -[X] If she gets out of that, cast again or use Core Purge, or whatever is most likely to hit her
    [X] Plan Big Booms
    -[X] Start blasting with Purifier Beam at your own feet and sweeping towards White Soul. Aim for as much AOE as you can as long as you avoid engulfing the barrier.
    -[X] If White Soul backs away and gives a lull try to hit the barrier to weaken it, aim away from where Insight is located.
    -[X] If White Soul moves to the barrier curse and fly far enough away that she can't reach you quickly.
    [X] Plan Bluescreen
    -[X] Talk her down
    -[X] mention that the seal makes sure Red Rose's first Priority will be to Godess Red and not to her.
    -[X] that you have been friends to Red Rose, while she only caused her pain
    -[X] that you have freed the old guard from Godess Red
    -[X] if that fails, proceed with some other plan
 
So, do you think "Killed White Soul after less than a month of being an MG" is the kind of thing that gives you the kind of reputation that brings Overwhelming Presence?
 
So, do you think "Killed White Soul after less than a month of being an MG" is the kind of thing that gives you the kind of reputation that brings Overwhelming Presence?
naw, we probably need to completely change the tides of a large scale battle from our side is losing, to "oh all the enemies are dead" within 10 seconds or so to get that :p
 
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