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Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

Retcon: Should General Horner (the MC) have been The Magistrate (Starcraft 1 PC)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 43.8%

  • No

    Votes: 29 36.3%

  • This does not matter to me

    Votes: 16 20.0%
  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
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The Laurent said:
We're literally in charge of the bureaucracy. We literally have a potential private army of our own. Of all the critiques, the "but what about the bureaucracy" is one of the ones that ironically is least applicable for a new Republic in our case. The new Republic will be born with a powerful, energetic bureaucracy that's spent years belling the Mengskian cat in the name of liberty and human rights.
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That doesn't mean we have infinite effort.
Even now, we can't do everything we want. Between putting dice into spreading democracy (Service?) and putting dice into medicine, research and guns, one obviously has a higher priority right now (assuming you enjoy living, anyhow).

And they doesn't even address what happens if, say, Warfield or Starke Strenuously Disagree!
 
Shine said:
That doesn't mean we have infinite effort.
Even now, we can't do everything we want. Between putting dice into spreading democracy (Service?) and putting dice into medicine, research and guns, one obviously has a higher priority right now.
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Service (UNN+Literacy) and Personal are our best options for deliberate democracy-spreading, alongside Fringe Bunkers to directly arm the people. TRUST may or may not count depending on whether our own private army counts as an engine of democracy.
 
We literally have a mechanism for getting Starke onside, and I would be legitimately shocked if he insists that the only possible path forward is Valerian becoming Mengsk II, because I don't think the QM would set an entire category of options that limited to exclusively Valerian-boosting actions.

Especially since we didn't choose the start where the main character was invested in Valerian.
 
Sailor_Skarro said:
INFRASTRUCTURE- Even if we do nothing else, Augustgrad qualifies. Fringe Bunkers are easy as well.
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Not sure if a 2 phase project thematically counts, but yeah, Augustgrad will fit the bill.

Sailor_Skarro said:
SERVICES- Word of QM is that more investment into UNN would get this one, and the Shipyards would also do it, being a multiphase project.
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Don't forget the Mass Literacy and Health Services projects. We have plenty of options here as well.

In short we're well on track for Revitalization.
 
MrRageQuit said:
Not sure if a 2 phase project thematically counts, but yeah, Augustgrad will fit the bill.



Don't forget the Mass Literacy and Health Services projects. We have plenty of options here as well.

In short we're well on track for Revitalization.
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Etranger said Multi-Phase, I'd be surprised if Fringe Bunkers didn't count.

Yes, but I was focusing on the ones we were actively focusing on this year for the most part.

Yeah, I'm not particularly worried about Revitalization, we're going to do it as a side effect of trying to do our job well and/or in pursuit of bonuses.
 
The Laurent said:
We literally have a mechanism for getting Starke onside, and I would be legitimately shocked if he insists that the only possible path forward is Valerian becoming Mengsk II, because I don't think the QM would set an entire category of options that limited to exclusively Valerian-boosting actions.

Especially since we didn't choose the start where the main character was invested in Valerian.
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The point is, instead of arguing about every individual character who may or may not be willing to embrace the call of liberty, is that unless you can guarantee we can transition over without spending precious dice or bleeding valuable troops from generals, admirals, psions etc strongly disagreeing, I'd rather spin up the furnaces for more guns and battleships for what's probably the extent of the quest.

(If the head of the secret police proposes free and fair elections as a viable option, I would be quite pleasantly surprised).
 
Cool stuff on the Revitalization requirements. I was just double checking cause its actually a pretty major goal category and such. The last thing we want is to fail because we didn't realize certain things were required and such.

--

So speaking of Starke, we are having our dinner with him and we might like about the coolness that is Valerian. Or at least we might be hinted around about his existence and such. Basically its going to be quite an interesting meeting.

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Also if we can't put Valerian as the next Emperor I vote we put ourselves in the position of Emperor, with our nephew Mat as our Heir. I mean we know we will be kinder and better than Arcturus Mengsk.
 
I mean, Valerian's big achievements in the Starcraft universe are "Got half the Dominion Fleet stomped in a hail-mary on Char that only worked because Raynor and crew were there to pull the Dominion's asses out of the fire and win the campaign for him" (which worked admittedly, but he was really unduly arrogant about his chances before the shooting started) and "Asked Kerrigan really nicely if she could not War Crime through the civilian population on her way to his dad's palace."
 
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I kind of hope we do get to play past SC2 and into Covert Ops, mind.

There's not much material about the post-canon, and working on solving a lot of the Terrans' Other Issues, largely concerning accountability, child soldiers and enfranchisement, without extinction snapping at our heels, would be pretty fun.
 
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Rule 3: Be Civil
The Laurent said:
If we discredit Mengsk and do a palace coup we could just... not put Valerian in charge? Because yeah, the canonical end is that Valerian becomes an absolute monarch with literally no checks and balances (just like his father) other than his morality but it's okay because he's nice, and that's what Blizzard cares about.

So yeah, fuck that.
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Your a moralist busybody with a hate bonner for monarchism that point as come across multiple times during the quest so far i get it

But be realist my friend
 
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Fenrir44 said:
Your a moralist bussy buddy with a hate bonner for monarchism that point as come across multiple times during the quest so far i get it

But be realist my friend
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My guy, you're going to get yourselves banned at this rate.

Disagreeing can still be done in a chill fashion.
Plus, it's a bit excessive to tear into someone over a game.
 
Shine said:
My guy, you're going to get yourselves banned at this rate.

Disagreeing can still be done in a chill fashion.
Plus, it's a bit excessive to tear into someone over a game.
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Just stating the facts he has at some points be patronising others here for disagreeing with him

Besides why would i be banned for this? Is it because he is a counesilor ergo in a postion power i dont care about that
 
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.....anyway.

One thing we really need to be cautious about as we gear up for any sort of coup or revolution is that if we shot Mengsk tomorrow the most likely outcome is not a smooth inheritance by Valerian, but instead a military junta. That, I think everyone can agree, would be bad!
 
grimely said:
.....anyway.

One thing we really need to be cautious about as we gear up for any sort of coup or revolution is that if we shot Mengsk tomorrow the most likely outcome is not a smooth inheritance by Valerian, but instead a military junta. That, I think everyone can agree, would be bad!
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Bet you ass that is bad idea not only that but we would in essence be the villain that everyone in the Dominion want to shoot at the moment Arcturus is still massivly popular

So he would be laided as a Savior emperor untimely taken out by a vile anacist that brought noting but dead to the terran people
 
grimely said:
.....anyway.

One thing we really need to be cautious about as we gear up for any sort of coup or revolution is that if we shot Mengsk tomorrow the most likely outcome is not a smooth inheritance by Valerian, but instead a military junta. That, I think everyone can agree, would be bad!
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Don't dismiss it out of hand! Just imagine Warfield, Duke, Starke, and Samuel Smith running the whole show. You can't say it wouldn't be interesting. And you never know, they might rise to the challenge.

:V
 
The Laurent said:
If we discredit Mengsk and do a palace coup we could just... not put Valerian in charge?
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Okay, so what do we have, then? An oligarchical clique of Arcturus' former advisors? That's just asking for trouble.

A republic? That would be the ideal solution in the medium to long run, but in the short run several of our poker buddies would probably be worrying about war crimes tribunals and death (arguably we should too). Some of them would probably rather fight, or take their chances as the new El Supremo, than go along with it.

Because yeah, the canonical end is that Valerian becomes an absolute monarch with literally no checks and balances (just like his father) other than his morality but it's okay because he's nice, and that's what Blizzard cares about.

So yeah, fuck that.
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Look, I'm happy to get a more constitutional monarchy, or no monarchy. This isn't about me preferring more monarchy to less monarchy.

I just can't see a viable strategy for rapidly and 'cleanly' resolving the power vacuum that doesn't result in a big civil war that badly weakens the Dominion, our potential co-conspirators selling us out, or both, without Valerian being involved. Not off the top of my head. Maybe that'll change.
 
At this point we've barely begun to actually work to stop Mengsk. We invested all of zero Free Dice into it this turn, and while we've unlocked further options we've yet to make major progress in anything but Raynor's Raiders, let alone TRUST.

Of course we don't see some clear path forward yet, we don't even have a fraction of the allies we need to make and half the tools we want.
 
The Laurent said:
At this point we've barely begun to actually work to stop Mengsk. We invested all of zero Free Dice into it this turn, and while we've unlocked further options we've yet to make major progress in anything but Raynor's Raiders, let alone TRUST.

Of course we don't see some clear path forward yet, we don't even have a fraction of the allies we need to make and half the tools we want.
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To be expected: goal one is surviving the coming Brood Wars. Goal two is rebuilding after that. Only then can we put some serious consideration into toppling Mengsk.
 
Dain24601 said:
To be expected: goal one is surviving the coming Brood Wars. Goal two is rebuilding after that. Only then can we put some serious consideration into toppling Mengsk.
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I mostly agree with this priority list but also we need to put as much effort into laying the groundwork for Mengsk-toppling as we can as early as we can, because a nice, clean coup is going to take a lot of groundwork.
 
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