Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition

Retcon: Should General Horner (the MC) have been The Magistrate (Starcraft 1 PC)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 43.8%
  • No

    Votes: 29 36.3%
  • This does not matter to me

    Votes: 16 20.0%

  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .
We don't have to step immediately to democracy. You can't just declare democracy from the palace and expect it to work.

A constitutional monarchy where we work with Valerian to build up the foundation of a strong democracy sounds like a great path.

Amnesty for some of the goons and old elite, purge the worst, and then busy ourselves with setting the Dominion on the path to liberalization.

I'm not opposed to republicanism I'm just okay with having a cooperative constitutional monarch rule for some decades to help smooth the transition.
 
Honestly something I want to play around with more is the fact that we are one of the worst. We're involved in the deaths of two planets!
 
Can someone explain what High-Efficiency Conduits does? I mostly skimmed through the turn posts so I'm not sure where the tech will lead to.
 
Can someone explain what High-Efficiency Conduits does? I mostly skimmed through the turn posts so I'm not sure where the tech will lead to.
1. It's the first tech in the Protoss Xenotech research tree
2. From the description it looks like a bunch of industrial benefits related to being able to make same-durability conduits at a much smaller size or same-size conduits at a far higher durability.
 
At this point we've barely begun to actually work to stop Mengsk. We invested all of zero Free Dice into it this turn, and while we've unlocked further options we've yet to make major progress in anything but Raynor's Raiders, let alone TRUST.

Of course we don't see some clear path forward yet, we don't even have a fraction of the allies we need to make and half the tools we want.
I mean, okay, sure, fine.

But that doesn't really address what I was saying. Sure, we're in the early game and not the midgame or endgame. It's not obvious what our path to victory should look like, or how we could actually kill Arcturus with reasonable confidence of success, let alone handle the post-Arcturus transition.

At the same time, I think we need to acknowledge the shapes of the challenges we're going to face. Since we realistically can't speedrun this, and since we're going to be spending a lot on Paranoia-reducing options to offset both the Paranoia incurred from our own efforts to build a power base and from our doing commonsense things Arcturus doesn't like, such as SCV factories and terraforming Korhal...

By the time we're in a position to move to our endgame, Mengsk is going to be heavily forted up. The imperial palace is like a mountain, Augustgrad is huge and quite resistant to attack, and Korhal as a whole will be secured by several major military installations we ourselves have been constructing to keep Mengsk nice and calm. There's a reason why even the UED saw capturing Augustgrad as a formidable prospect, so much so that there's an entire mission dedicated just to reducing the outer defenses and even so, the real "Augustgrad" mission starts with a massive Dominion counterattack wiping out the UED spearhead forces in a mass of nuclear/Yamato fire.

The practical upshot of this is that we're not going to be able to easily shoot our way in with a massed assault, whether that massed assault be by Raynor's Raiders, TRUST troopers, giant crowds of revolutionaries in full "Do You Hear The People SING" mode, or a combination of the above. And even if we somehow get Mengsk out from under all those defenses, or manage to quickly and 'cheaply' assassinate him without much involvement from allies within the government apart from ourselves, someone is still going to be inside those defenses and in a position to proclaim themselves successor.

So if whoever is occupying that fortress isn't us, isn't us and whatever allies we've formed, we're going to be in for a prolonged fight before whatever force we're backing can claim to hold real power in Dominion space. Like most coups, we need to be ready to secure the capital, and we can only have so much of an army in position when that happens, which means we probably need some degree of collaboration with sympathizers in the military and intelligence services... And that loops us back to the problem of "will these guys cooperate with someone who wants to establish the kind of regime that may well decide to shoot them for war crimes, and hell, may decide to shoot him for war crimes?"

And we're not yet in a position to have an answer to that question! You're right!

But I fear the answer may be 'no,' and I'm not sure how to address that issue if we're not ready to accept some degree of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
 
1. It's the first tech in the Protoss Xenotech research tree
2. From the description it looks like a bunch of industrial benefits related to being able to make same-durability conduits at a much smaller size or same-size conduits at a far higher durability.
If I had to guess, it's also required for next-gen seige tanks and battlecruisers, and other high-energy weapons.
 
So if whoever is occupying that fortress isn't us, isn't us and whatever allies we've formed, we're going to be in for a prolonged fight before whatever force we're backing can claim to hold real power in Dominion space. Like most coups, we need to be ready to secure the capital, and we can only have so much of an army in position when that happens, which means we probably need some degree of collaboration with sympathizers in the military and intelligence services... And that loops us back to the problem of "will these guys cooperate with someone who wants to establish the kind of regime that may well decide to shoot them for war crimes, and hell, may decide to shoot him for war crimes?"

Which is why we're reaching out to Starke, and Santos who *commands the Korhal garrison*. Also, I could be wrong, but I suspect Santos is clean. Starke... we'll see, but there's always allowing him an exit route to vanish and build a new identity somewhere...
 
It also shows that Chuck has actual ambitions- that is, that he's specifically formulating long range plans to "better himself" or his situation.

Let me have men about me that are fat,
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights.
Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look,
He thinks too much; such men are dangerous.

-Caesar, Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare

We can give pardons or amnesty if we pull a coup.
If we're doing a coup with the goal of crowning Emperor Chuck I, then yes.

If we're going to go radical republican and refuse to accept any outcome to the civil war other than "Republic wins, no monarchy," then we don't actually have any ability to promise with total confidence that the amnesty will be honored in the long run. Because if a true republic is founded, we won't have any leverage to make binding guarantees.

Basically, someone like General Duke has lived his life effectively above the law. The idea of not being categorically above the law is, sensibly, going to be frightening to him and he'll try to avoid such a fate at all costs. And nothing we promise him as a reward or special privilege against the onset of a republic that's expected to put everyone under the rule of law will compensate for that.
 
.
having quick read the thread and seeing no real change in the current argument that has been had...
1. UED
2. Baby Overmind
3. Queen of blades
Can we shelf and talk about this because until brood war ends (aka zerg on zerg and start of mass research on zerg/protoss that is the gateway for amon)?
 
...or we could not just assume that this whole thread is on board with Plan "Monarchy is the only solution."

E: To clarify I'm still not against the move to Korhal. Just didn't bother to vote because that seemed pretty settled.
I think your peeve here is massively strawmanning the people who aren't adamantly against Valerian. The fact is- an internal coup/violent power struggle within the government is safer and less likely to get a ton of people killed than a mass uprising in a setting where nuclear weapons are absolutely on the table in a civil strife. Valerian seemingly has Starke in his corner already, we know he gets Warfield in his corner at some point or another- if backing Valerian into a constitutional monarchy is what it takes to get a relatively bloodless palace coup over the risk of billions dying in nuclear hellfire and the potential collapse of several worlds in open civic conflict? He can be emperor any day, and discarding that notion out of hand in favor of revolutionary ambitions is its own kind of cavalier disregard for human life.
 
Valerian does have Starke in his corner already. Devon Starke was supposed to have been executed during Arcturus's purge of the Confederate Ghost Program, and only avoided that because Valerian asked for Starke as a birthday present. That, and Valerian's idealism, have made Starke very loyal to Valerian.
 
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I always was in disbelief that over the entire series not one Terrain
not a single one
not Raynor, not Nova, not Horner (both), not Valerian nor Kerrigan (for a given value of Terran)
Ever went

'Man, do we really need the Ghost program?
It's pretty messed up.'
 
I always was in disbelief that over the entire series not one Terrain
not a single one
not Raynor, not Nova, not Horner (both), not Valerian nor Kerrigan (for a given value of Terran)
Ever went

'Man, do we really need the Ghost program?
It's pretty messed up.'
Keeping a check on people who can kill an entire room full of people with literally a thought (not word not whim) is kinda a wise move.
Now turning them all into assaissens for the goverment is an issue.
 
We become the Emperor, Matt is our heir. (He becomes super bros with Valerian.) The game transitions from "Subverting the Plan" to "You are the Plan."
 
Stable Democracy after generations of totalitarian rule isn't something you get right out the gate, it's something that needs to be built towards. When we get contact with Valerian, we can look into how to get started on the road to republicanism.
 
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