- Location
- Africa
I suspect GDI anti grav tech is immature hence why it was shelved , the other possible reason is that the scirn tech we are researching is meant for space travel use rather than ground based use
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We have no guarantee of that. On the one hand, they're conspicuous symbols that Treasury is Doing Something. On the other hand, they're gigantic land battleships trundling along and crushing the land beneath their tracks in the relatively small, crowded Blue Zones where our population lives.
Not sure we'd win Political Support on net that way.
Yes, but our existing hover technology is vulnerable to ion storms. Bit of a problem there.
You are making an assertion without evidence.
The Juggernaut uses gigantic large-caliber artillery guns; it is not similar to the tube artillery we've been mass-producing. There is no reason to think that the limiting factor behind an upgrade is "we don't manufacture enough shells." There is, for that matter, no reason to think the Juggernaut will continue in service for the bulk of GDI's military, because it's not clear that it serves a purpose anymore. We have ample conventional artillery and are working on MLRS systems for further bombardment options. We developed those artillery systems in large part because of the inadequacy of the Juggernaut, which uses oversized guns and is too expensive for Ground Forces' purposes.
Ground Forces may continue the Juggernaut in service, or they may not. The Steel Talons will probably work out an upgraded version for themselves, but that doesn't mean it'll enter mass service any more than the Titan Mk. III is going to.
The factory refits are very specifically intended to increase production, not to alter the design, and the Firehawk is being explicitly singled out as an aircraft that is NOT likely to change or be replaced soon.
You are speculating baselessly here about the Firehawk.
I am overlooking neither of these things.
For (1) you are missing something very important: resource efficiency. It is a bad idea to expend large amounts of resources in exchange for a small return on investment. We cannot build up unlimited tiberium mining infrastructure; there is too much else that needs to be done. Thus, we need to be selective.
Certain projects are particularly useful for abatement (such as Red Zone Containment Lines and Yellow Zone Harvesting). These projects make sense to pursue at any time, including now. Sure, we lose a lot of the resource income they provide in the near future, but we don't lose the tiberium abatement, good enough.
Other projects are not useful for abatement, as they provide very little, but do provide relatively large resource income (such as Glacier Mining and Tiberium Vein Mining). These projects should not be undertaken at the end of a Plan, not only because we're relying on them to surge our income back for the next Plan, but because they have large up-front costs of Logistics and Capital Goods (respectively). We are short on those resources and have to work very hard if we want to build up substantial surpluses of them.
Tiberium vein mines simply do not provide enough mitigation to matter much, and the Capital Goods cost is crippling. We cannot afford to build them on a large scale. Not now. Just because the action has been unlocked and exists, doesn't mean it's feasible for us to do much with it at the moment, when we so urgently need Capital Goods and are still far from completing any of the megaprojects that give us massive amounts of them.
...
As for (2), the Yellow Zone hubs are not our only source of labor- though they help. The problem is that they have to be finished very quickly for fear of a military disaster. We may want to pursue them, especially if we can get Nod on the run in certain Yellow Zones or break the power of specific major warlords, but by nature each one is going to be risky and draw a lot of Nod aggression.
And I think you greatly overestimate the value of Blue Zone MARVs. It's conceivable that they do something much more useful than we have evidence for, but it's also conceivable that they're not useful. Think about it, the MARV was specifically designed to operate in Nod-infested Yellow Zones and into the Red Zones. That's why it's so big and heavily armed; it's not to make the thing more efficient as a tiberium harvester, but rather to make it defensible in areas where conventional harvesters would be vulnerable.
In the heart of our fortified Blue Zones, the MARV simply does not serve the same role- because it's not worried about attack by enemies and isn't in such a hostile environment. It becomes less efficient than its weight in conventional harvesters.
- Location
- Africa
the blue zones are not that small as they cover whole geographic areas of space more than enough room for entire formations of building sized tanks to roam around without anyone ever seeing one in person , beside I can see how it would lead to political support "look at all those massive tanks the GDI assigned to our protection , makes me feel like my taxes are being well spent" , also I think the only reason we wouldn't get the political points is because Granger has the political outsider debuff
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We're one, maybe two dice off finishing our (likely) last MARV fleet for the Plan. 1 die on RZ-7 North is... *counts on fingers* I think 62% likely to complete. And it not only gets us income and mitigation, but secures Chicago against attack. I think we can and should space a single die for it next turn.
Boston vs. Nuuk was a major point of contention in last turn's discussion, and the three most popular plans all put dice towards Boston instead of Nuuk. So I think it's disingenuous to imply people voted for the leading plan without knowing of caring that it put a die on Boston.
Yeah, I can't speak for others but for me it didn't matter which got picked, just that one of them were. Hopefully the endless debate dies down a bit now...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
To clarify, when I was writing that, I meant to have a MARV construction pause after completing the Chicago MARV fleet.
Hm. I'm not sure if my own little draft reflected that. It should have.
The question we need to ask ourselves is, was the North Boston versus Nuuk choice the pivotal one influencing that plan? I think a lot more people were influenced by questions like
People knew they were voting for a plan that put a die on North Boston, and there was no mass uprising in favor of putting a die on Nuuk instead (and scraping up 5 R from somewhere else). This, I freely admit. At the same time, there was almost no conversation on the subject at that time, whereas there was considerable conversation on it earlier that was by no means one-sided.
I don't really feel like I know what happened there, admittedly, but I don't think we should treat this as final consensus in favor of North Boston over Nuuk. Sometimes you just get weird results from a vote, especially if people are copy-pasting chunks of each others' plans, or if the thread gets heavily preoccupied talking about one aspect of the situation while not talking much about others.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Yeah, the Scrin disrupted the asteroid belt using their reactionless drives. Are we sure we want to be using those near a planet?
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
GDI's current hovertech is a further evolution on the OTL Wing In Ground Effect design combined with a less powerful and fuel guzzling version of the Orca VTOL engine.
It is not anti gravity.
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The Juggernaut is a perfectly serviceable piece of equipment. GDI switched to producing non-mobile emplaced artillery because there was a demand for it, but when it comes to self mobile artillery the Juggernaut is a piece of equipment that is likely to remain in service for decades to come unless we switch to railgun artillery and the platform cannot support that. It has a good range, is accurate, has a good rate of fire, and all other inadequacies you imagine can be covered with shells.
And if you say 'but it is a mech', you do not understand C&C.
Also, MLRS will not replace gun artillery. It will supplement it, possibly displace it as the preferred method of artillery, but we are going to be seeing gun artillery for a long time yet.
- Location
- The Underdark
Part of the reason I am using something as fixed as Mass Effect is because it has a lot of details already and I can work from them to fill in the rest. Something more freeform requires a lot more work to take from a generic battlefield into something where a planquest can actually meaningfully engage with it.
Actually it is very similar. In that you are using the exact same tubes for much of your artillery park.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
From a meta perspective, we know all three options are viable because all three are possible victory conditions.
Adaptation is merely the one we know the least about OOC because it's not part of the canon like the TCN or pretty intuitive like Evacuation.
We should bank some PI to pull the trigger on some Tiberium experimentation, which is a good fit for our successor's specialization.
@Ithillid, do we have an idea of how many Forgotten there are on Earth?
- Location
- The Underdark
I have been working from a baseline of a few hundred thousand total. Currently about 15 percent Alpha, 20 Beta, 50 Gamma, and the remaining 5 percent Delta.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Congratulations on your new permanent assigment, Darkandus! Here is the anti-Tiberium showel. Start shoveling.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Really? That seems really low given the state of Tiberium spread. I would have expected millions at least.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Just goes to show how lethal it is.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Scrin were most active in the red zones and decimated their numbers hard if I remember quest lore correctly.
- Location
- The Underdark
The vast, vast majority die.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I figure there's some chance of the Juggernaut being replaced, and some chance of it not. What it does, a decent self-propelled howitzer can do, in the same sense that a tank can do what the Titan Mk. I did.
That is a bluntly unnecessary insinuation. Please credit me with not being a fool or an ignoramus.
However, even within C&C canon, the Predator tank supplanted the Titan 'mech, seemingly because of issues involving cost and ease of mass production. The precedent is there, though whether or not it is followed remains to be seen. The Juggernaut is, essentially, the SP howitzer version of the Titan chassis, and I could easily imagine it being supplanted by the SP howitzer version of the Predator chassis, for instance.
I didn't say MLRS would replace gun artillery, but a combination of MLRS and self-propelled conventional artillery might (not will, might) supplant specifically the Juggernaut if they can outperform it in its intended role.
My actual point, though, was not "the Juggernaut is useless and crappy." It's "there is no specific reason to expect much in the way of upgrades for it." As a platform, it's likely to be supplanted NOT by a slightly updated version of itself, but by something radically different such as tracked self-propelled guns.
As an exception to this, the Steel Talons may field a 'Juggernaut Mk. IV,' especially as a test-bed for new artillery fire control system and the like, but then they field a lot of high-powered mutant hardware not seen elsewhere in Ground Forces.
Hm. I think I may have been misremembering the Juggernaut's canonical gun caliber (200 mm), or thinking that our army tubes were using typical artillery calibers (155 mm being the most common standard). 8" guns don't see much use on land. And I think I filed away "Juggernauts have uncharacteristically big guns in something that looks a bit too much like a naval turret" to imply that they were of a caliber that one would normally consider unreasonable for land-based artillery (I think I misremembered it as 280 mm at some point, which would be just silly).
- Location
- Africa
might I recommend taping the tech tree from endless space 2 for ideas and material for a si-fi setting to add some spice to the mass effect setting , as a a lot of the stuff in there would fit with this style of quest with many of them being a bit of reflavoring away from fitting in as economy ,infrastructure and industry actions
Technology
Technology is one of the core game systems in ES2. Much like "experience points" in an RPG, players are able to gain science points as they play, and these progressively unlock new abilities for their empire. These include new movement abilities for starships, new kinds of buildings, new kinds...
endless-space-2.fandom.com
E: here is an example
High-Energy Magnetics this one would come across as an industrial action were we retool and upgrade our military factories
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- Location
- The Underdark
Your first artillery project was a stopgap mix of existing tubes. 152mm smoothbores, 200mm rifles, 120mm mortar systems. That is partially why you have the improved artillery development program, because the military does want to actually reconfigure and refit to something more sane. Move to a baseline 150mm rifle, and an array of lighter guns.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Apologies for not making myself clear enough and stating that I was speculating about the Firehawk specifically. What I was trying to say was that it is an upgrade to the factories and may net us more military projects to do once fully done.
👇So let me see:
- Tiberium Prospecting gives us a small amount of resources and no abation. Pass.
- Tiberium Vein Mines give us +1 YZ abatement and 20-30 resources. Eh we have bigger abatement income. So far anyways.
- Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting is still giving us Yellow Zone abatement and a +4 at that. Fair enough is high. So far anyways.
- Intensification of Yellow Zone Harvesting is something we should do as soon as it opens since while it is only 5-10 resources and gives only 1 abatement it is the final step in securing that region of the Yellow Zones as much as we can secure them right now. I don't expect to be getting this one before the next plan since it requires Yellow Zone fortress town as well.
- Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting is something to take nearer to the end of the turn so we can have multiple Glacier Mining operations ready to start.
- Red Zone Containment Lines is a 10-15 resources and a +3 RZ containment. For this stage. The text of the action points to diminishing returns on action that come after it. So yeah should take this one and should probably take the next one if we can. And should keep taking it even when it becomes less efficient because having a hard border with the Red Zones is a good idea.
- Tiberium Glacier Mining is something we should build up the space for now before the next plan and then take it when Granger retires.
So yeah I agree with you for this next turn. Good argument made. Same for the stuff I didn't even bother to quote.
So then we should do them after Granger retires?
Fair enough, but should we finish RZ 7 South before the end of the plan to secure the American Red Zones completely also?
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Phrasing
Meaningful contribution tax:
But seriously though: phrasing
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- Location
- Africa
we should on do them after Granger retires if we find ourselves with plenty of dice and resources to convert into political capital and a pressing need for it as MARVs in the blue zones are honestly a waste , as there are no worth while tiberium fields nor any sort of military threat in the blue zones to justify the deployment of a MARV fleet when there are other places that need them more
Can we develop pure landship version of MARV, stipping all tiberium stuff for more fighting ability, for use in Blue Zones?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Seems sort of pointless tbh. Blue zones are the most defended already, and it would be better to do our fighting away from them.
If anything, GravTech based HoverMARVs might be a better long term option to research. Perhaps are a precursor to Global Stratospheric Transports.