-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think we should take some down-time from building MARVs for at least a few turns, because that way we can actually achieve a reasonable level of dice thrown into the rest of the military without spending literally all our Free dice on the Military category.
Which is good because it gives us Free dice to put elsewhere, say on Orbital (to do cleanup or stations or whatever) or Heavy Industry (for Nuuk, let's say).
- Location
- USA
Fairly sure we want to chuck all our free dice at mil the next turn or two to start deploying stuff we have developed. And Nuuk seems to have been put on hold until Year 2 or 3 of the next plan based on how the thread voted.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just spitballing here, but do Evacuate and Adapt have to be mutually exclusive? There will be a sizable minority of people such as the Forgotten who require Tiberium to live, and we don't really want to export it off Earth.
Could we pursue adaptation research and space infrastructure in parallel, using Adaptation to reduce the total number we need to evacuate, while also reducing the political fallout of forcing Tiberium infusion on people?
Now, I know there will be concerns about splitting our focus, and I normally wouldn't advise this sort of plan, but it strikes me that these two plans call for very different spending: Evacuation mostly calls for massive physical infrastructure, while Adaptation calls for medical research.
There also seem to be some good synergies, with Adapted populations being able to support planetside resource extraction with less overhead costs, and Evacuated populations reducing the strain on the planetary infrastructure and thus raising the Adapted population's effective standards of living. We'd have to watch out for a weird core/periphery dynamic emerging, but I like the idea of not abandoning Earth.
Could we pursue adaptation research and space infrastructure in parallel, using Adaptation to reduce the total number we need to evacuate, while also reducing the political fallout of forcing Tiberium infusion on people?
Now, I know there will be concerns about splitting our focus, and I normally wouldn't advise this sort of plan, but it strikes me that these two plans call for very different spending: Evacuation mostly calls for massive physical infrastructure, while Adaptation calls for medical research.
There also seem to be some good synergies, with Adapted populations being able to support planetside resource extraction with less overhead costs, and Evacuated populations reducing the strain on the planetary infrastructure and thus raising the Adapted population's effective standards of living. We'd have to watch out for a weird core/periphery dynamic emerging, but I like the idea of not abandoning Earth.
Last edited:
I'd be tempted to get one MARV hub up and running right at the end of the plan, so we can get a fleet up and running at the start of the next one. It'll be useful for adding another source of income right when we are resource starved.
That said, I don't think we need to invest in MARVs for the next year or so.
That said, I don't think we need to invest in MARVs for the next year or so.
And all that we had to do, is delegate rolls to someone not cursed.
We should have done this long ago!
Not bad with the military development and getting Chicago to phase 3 and Mecca through phase 1. Plus getting another phase for Tidal plants done for power is always a good bonus.
Should we tackle the remaining food points a bit more in Q4 since it has the largest amount remaining of the requirements? Also what year are we ending the current four year plan on?
Also, what should we do for military in Q4? Tackle other development projects or focus on production for equipment like the anti-stealth system and Orca refits? And should we start putting two dice into the gravity drives to get it done?
Should we tackle the remaining food points a bit more in Q4 since it has the largest amount remaining of the requirements? Also what year are we ending the current four year plan on?
Also, what should we do for military in Q4? Tackle other development projects or focus on production for equipment like the anti-stealth system and Orca refits? And should we start putting two dice into the gravity drives to get it done?
That's not the first time we saw the Tib percentages, the Turn 1 results have the first Tib numbers that I can find, so we aren't back to where we started.
We lost a lot of ground in 2050 though, we're back to the best we've ever been on Blue Zone extent since Q4 2050, it's just going to take a little over two full percentage points to get back over where we started the game. Although we should actually manage to keep it high enough to push over where we started the game even in the face of mutation.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Infra: I'll need to see the results, but I'm keen to get another phase of Mecca/Jeddah done. It may be quicker to use Tib dice, but we have a lot of other uses for Tib dice. Rail Link is likely what I'd suggest as well.
HI: Would prefer Nuuk, as it gives use some Capitol Goods before we hit 1000 progress. We don't have any Consumer Goods targets to meet right now, and when we do have those targets, we can easily switch back to Boston or Tokyo.
LCI: Definitely aim to finish a Macrospinner phase. Could be worth using Free dice on this next turn, as Superconductors and Chemical Fertilizers are quite useful.
Agri: Entari! I'm thinking we should aim to finish the next stage of Vertical Farming next. Only a small amount of Food, but it is quickest to do while we wait to see what Entari changed.
Tib: Wait and see. But we shouldn't delay Inhibitor any further.
Orbital: Cursed! (Will need to see what changes here.)
Services: Nothing interesting here.
Military: Obviously those shipyards, and whatever else is Very High Priority. Like more Ablatives.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
One does literally wishes here that Kane fucks up his secrecy for once and everyone on the planet learns of LEGION. Hilarity ensues.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, we'll get those deployments done even faster if we're not throwing 2-3 dice per turn at MARV construction.
The real point here is that constructing MARVs has an opportunity cost in dice that would otherwise be Free dice or Military dice, and we have good reasons to want to use both those items for other things.
I think you're jumping to conclusions. People supported putting a single die on North Boston because they liked the rest of the plan; that doesn't mean they think North Boston is objectively superior to Nuuk overall. Because even the progress from that one die doesn't inherently give North Boston the advantage.
The Forgotten are numerically very few in number... and frankly, they have a problem if they're going to stay on Earth indefinitely, because the Earth is going to get more and more unlivable. I'm not sure how deep into the Red Zones the Forgotten can survive now, but if tiberium overwhelms the Earth's biosphere, are they going to be able to make do without oxygen to breathe? To subsist entirely off tiberium energies as the supplies of carbon-based life for food dry up to nothing? How will they cope when the energetic liquid tiberium explosions start?
I'm not sure if Adapt was ever really a tenable long-term strategy unless we find a way to control tiberium so that its growth doesn't completely overrun what's left of the biosphere or threaten to literally blow up the whole planetary surface.
In theory maybe, but we'll need to find the levers to pull that even lead to that kind of adaptation research, and decide for ourselves how much effort is needed.
That's not a bad idea. We could start it and mostly finish the fleet before the end of the plan, then round it off right afterwards for the RpT. It's a bit cheaty but we have our reasons and I can see doing it.
Plus we made enough progress on the next phase that it actually makes sense to complete the Phase 3 tidal plants.
300 Infrastructure progress (about five dice and 50 Resources) for +++ Energy is iffy as a purchase.
150 remaining progress (about 2-3 dice and 20-30 Resources) for +++ Energy is much more attractive.
We're most of the way through Entari Development, which immediately gives us a surge of +8 Food and may unlock more food options. While we may need to do more than that, or want to do more than that, with agriculture... that's already pushing us far, far in the right direction.
Putting two dice in the gravity drives is a terrible idea. Remember that dice rolls are random; having rolled badly in the past doesn't mean you'll roll badly in the future. Imagine how silly we'd feel if we spent 60 Resources to activate two dice on the drive research and they both rolled 80 or more. We'd have wasted a valuable Orbital die and 30 Resources for nothing.
As for the military, we should definitely focus on production and deployment. We've got a lot of good stuff in the queue now, and the military's going to want to see it built.
My dream budget is something like:
Military (11/5)
-[] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1) (1 die, 20 R)*
-[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment? (2 dice, ?? R)
-[] Air Force Stuff (QMAAM production line, Orca refit?) (2 dice, ?? R)
-[] ULRS Rollout (2 dice, ?? R)
-[] Durban Cruiser Shipyard (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Vladivostok Cruiser Shipyard (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Havoc Scout Mech Development (1 die, 10 R)
____________________________
*(I don't want to put two dice on this because I'm pretty sure we can't spare the Capital Goods for more than Phase 1 completing next turn, even with Johannesburg Phase 3 coming online, which is nearly sure to happen)
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
For the Juggernaut you have the Mastodon research:
as the Juggernaut is an iteration of the old Juggernaut from Tiberium Sun and the Steel Talons don't like them. Basically either disband the Steel Talons or take the Mastodon research.
The Firehawk is getting upgrades here and there with the Wartime Factories Refits:
and the Shatterer is an improvised artillery made out of a mining vehicle so we need to research a proper military version of it:
Also @aceraptor?:
I need to learn to read better still. Yes the current Shatterer is a sonic tank destroyer, but the difference between a Tank Destroyer and an Artillery piece is usually just in the angle of their guns. ZOCOM wants an artillery Shatterer developed.
Right. I guess it was just getting silly with the low rolls.
Anyway, how much longer should the inhibitor tech be postponed to put dice into other projects or should we get started in the next quarter?
Durban should finish up in the next turn if we put one die on it (mainly if it roll goes into high 20s at least) so one more die to Vladivostok or use it for another development project like the escort carrier for the Navy or use it for something else.
Also, are there any technology options for improving say the Hammerhead helicopter or us that not an option?
Also also, what does the cooperative focus entail?
Last edited:
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Mmhm... [thinks]
...
DREAM PLAN DRAFT
Infrastructure (5/5) (65 R)
-[] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) (2 dice, 20 R)
-[] Rail Link Reconstruction (Phase 3) (3 dice, 45 R)
Heavy Industry (5/5) (100 R)
-[] Synchronized Cycle Fusion Plants (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (3 dice, 60 R)
Light/Chemical Industry (4/4) (70 R)
-[] Johannesburg Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (2 dice, 30 R)
Agriculture (0/3) (40 R)
-[] Entari Deployment (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Yellow Zone Purification Facilities (Phase 1) (2 dice, 20 R)
Tiberium (5/5) (115 R)
-[] Mecca/Jeddah Planned Cities (Phase 2) (3 dice, 60 R)
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) (1 die, 25 R)
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Development (1 die, 30 R)
Orbital (3/3) (70 R)
-[] Gravitic Drive Development (1 die, 30 R)
-[] GDSS Shala (2 dice, 40 R)*
Services (0/4)
Military (11/5) (150-210 R, not sure what exactly, since I have six dice of projects that might cost 10-20 R each)
-[] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 1) (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment? (2 dice, ?? R)*
-[] Air Force Stuff (QMAAM production line, Orca refit?) (2 dice, ?? R)
-[] ULRS Rollout (2 dice, ?? R)
-[] Durban Cruiser Shipyard (1 die, 20 R)
-[] Vladivostok Cruiser Shipyard (2 dice, 40 R)
-[] Havoc Scout Mech Development (1 die, 10 R)
...Total costs:
65+100+70+40+115+70+(between 150 and 210)
610-670 Resources.
We have a 615-Resource budget.
Okay, this is closer to achievable than I thought. Obvious cost-cutting measures include:
1) Flipping the space station dice to Orbital Cleanup dice (both -20 R in the short term and an infusion of resources for 2057Q1)
2) Taking the Red Zone Containment die and turning it into a (yuck) Prospecting die. This saves 20 R in the short run.
3) Letting the water purification project sit and leaving those Agriculture dice fallow this turn, again saving 20 R; we can do water purification for Yellow Zones in a turn where we're not trying to research multiple Scrintech projects at the same time while simultaneously doing an intensive rollout of entari.
4) We could in principle skip Chemical Fertilizer Plants. I'd rather not leave the Light Industry dice fallow, but if we did it'd save -30 R. If we merely down-converted to Blue Zone Light Industrial Sectors (Phase 1), we could make some valuable progress on a project that we'll want to complete next Plan when we have a new Consumer Goods target to hit, and which is practically unique in being ++ Health, and still save -10 R in the process.
_______________________________
*(Shala chosen over Columbia for the cheap Phase 1 Political Support. I'm perfectly happy to flip back over to Columbia after doing, say, Phase 1+2 of Shala); we can easily have both doing quite well by the end of the Plan)
**(I don't think we can count on knowing whether this is its own deployment project like a refit, or whether we'll be making factories for the electronics, or whether we'll be integrating counter-stealth equipment into new recon vehicles. But with us scoring a crit on this technology, we really should try to capitalize on it by mass-producing stuff that can use it as soon as possible)
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
No. Microgravity combined with at the very least femtotech grey goo is a bad idea as there is not enough gravity to hold Tiberium dust from just starting to free float around the solar system.
We don't need to retool our entire economy, just the resource gathering.
There are some Tiberium fragments in space from the Liquid Tiberium explosion from Temple Prime being hit with an Ion Cannon, but we should get those while cleaning up space orbits. Hopefully. If not then we will have Tiberium abatement/clean up to do in space down the line.
Oh god this argument is serious. No. Just no. The Japanese Government itself is one part US puppet government, one part fascist ethnostate and one part just plain cyberpunk corporation (it's more that cyberpunk corporatons were inspired by this part of the Japanese Government) so it doesn't care what it's own people think. They don't care what parts of the population that aren't loyal to them or are seen as being foreigners think. This is also why they built and repair their nuclear power plants so shoddily: Part of Fukushima plant secured by duct tape, worker claimsLike the reason anime is so anti-government in most cases and for most of it's history is because it started as a counter-culture in Japan. See here: Zenkyoto : A Brief Overview on the History of Leftism in Japan and its influence on Otaku Culture Essay
So no Japan's work with Nuclear power is an example we don't want to emulate. Quite frankly I'm surprised that Japan hasn't been overrun by NOD yet and is still a Blue Zone.
Except that isn't really true. Japan started by being run by mostly the same assholes that ran it during the Imperial period since the US wanted an ally/puppet state in the Pacific that would fight against communism. It's a testament to the efforts of various human rights activists in Japan that it is as progressive as it is. No I'm not being sarcastic, yes I am aware that Japan is very conservative.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I had this crazy idea in a dream:
Kanes activates the TCN and Threshold Tower, and the moment the last of his hanger ons leave, the Threshold and every piece of Tiberium glows and the Solar system gets ISOTed into Battletech circa 3015 while the tower and all tib dissolve into harmless goo.
There is a small note from Kane left for the General Secretary telling him about wishing good luck and, oh, uh, the local version of the Not!Scrin/Visitors/Aliens-from-Tiberium Wars are about to invade the Inner Sphere in the near future, so get going and prepare everyone!
Just one of my musings about alternatives to Mass Effect.
Kanes activates the TCN and Threshold Tower, and the moment the last of his hanger ons leave, the Threshold and every piece of Tiberium glows and the Solar system gets ISOTed into Battletech circa 3015 while the tower and all tib dissolve into harmless goo.
There is a small note from Kane left for the General Secretary telling him about wishing good luck and, oh, uh, the local version of the Not!Scrin/Visitors/Aliens-from-Tiberium Wars are about to invade the Inner Sphere in the near future, so get going and prepare everyone!
Just one of my musings about alternatives to Mass Effect.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
If possible I'd like to use the free dice on abatement for the first two turns. Make hay while the sun shines and then move on to other tasks.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Uh... no. No, this is not accurate.
The Mastodon is a heavy assault walker; it is designed to both give and take fire, and importantly is not optimized for extremely long range fire missions as an indirect-fire gun platform. The Juggernaut is an artillery platform. It is designed for indirect fire (when supported by spotter teams), and is not intended to take heavy fire of its own.
The Steel Talons show no signs of disliking the Juggernaut, and the Mastodon heavy assault walker is not a substitute or replacement for it.
That's not necessarily an upgrade, that's just making more of them. The Air Force's main complaint about the Firehawk isn't that it's an inadequate airframe, it's that they want more of them, and more spare parts for the ones they have, so we have a push to accelerate production since the Air Force isn't planning to replace it in the foreseeable future.
As you see, I'm proposing to start the research next turn. We've got to do it sooner or later.
I recommend one die on Durban and two on Vladivostok. This gives us a reasonable chance of finishing at least one and hopefully both yards next turn. Which would be getting us mostly caught up on shipyard construction (three yards in four quarters since we started building the yards, on track to finish by the end of the Four Year Plan). We should not waste time developing escort carriers for the Navy right now because we have no means of mass-producing them, and it would be pointless for us to delay building the "Very High Priority" Governor yards in order to build lower-priority escort carriers.
As for the Hammerhead, I guess that the Air Force is either satisfied with it (at least until other priorities are fulfilled like upgrading the Orca fleet), or is still trying to figure out what they even want from a replacement. It may well be that the Hammerheads are one of those things we can do in Stages 1 and 2 of the war factory refits, where we're basically just throwing Capital Goods at existing production lines to make them go faster.
It means we invest more of the Treasury's money to fund, and set up regulatory infrastructure that promotes, businesses that are owned by their workers.
A co-op is a business enterprise that is wholly owned by its own workforce, not by private investors.
This is an effective way to keep any one person from getting super-rich off owning a corporation, and of distributing wealth to a larger group. As an example, imagine if Jeff Bezos' $193,000,000,000 net worth were divided up 1,300,000 ways, into one slice for each Amazon worker. The Amazon workers would then hopefully have accumulated a million-plus $150,000 fortunes.
That's a co-op.
I'm not disagreeing with you or characterizing Japan as a liberal/progressive state.
I'm saying the conversation goes like this.
OTL-2020 Japanese Guy: "I hate nuclear energy and nuclear weapons, because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."
2120 GDI Citizen: "No. No you do not."
Japanese Guy: "Excuse me!?"
GDI Citizen: "What you feel right now for nuclear weapons is not hatred. It is mild dislike. Now, I suggest you imagine watching your entire homeland be slowly consumed by green glowing rocks that kill three quarters of your population and force the remaining quarter to evacuate and live in overcrowded habitat stations in space and on the Moon. And then you can look out into the void of space, and see the green globe that was once your people's home. And you can reflect that what once belonged to your people can never be restored, never be repaired, thanks to the horrible terrorist motherfuckers who spread it and obstructed every effort to contain it!"
Japanese Guy: "Oh... oh my goodness..."
GDI Citizen: "And on that day, you will know what it is to truly, truly HATE an inanimate mineral and its industrial and energy applications!"
...
That's my point.
In the hypothetical scenario where we can't get a TCN running and are forced to evacuate the Earth, the survivors will really, really hate tiberium. They will hate tiberium WAY more than Japan hates nuclear technology.
This is not to say Japan doesn't hate nuclear technology. Just that GDI will hate tiberium more.
The Steel Talons will bounce up and down and go "SQUEE!"
The effect of doing this when you are in a giant stompy robot is... quite something.
More generally, I like it, but it invites the question: why would the Not!Scrin invade if there's no tiberium left?
Or is the note referring to the Clans? Because I'm pretty sure GDI could handle the Clans, at least on the ground.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
A decent enough turn except for the gravatic drive, Durban shipyard, and a few other crappy dice. But I've learned by now you can't win everything. At least all our other R&D projects worked out, especially Stealth Distruptors. Hopefully that crit makes it even more effective.
We got +8 power only to immediately lose 4 to power Chicago. Probably complete the fusion plants next turn for +8 more. At least now we have a grace margin of 2 emergency/temporary power. I'm really hoping we can get through the Fusion tech chain before the end of the Plan.
I'm not exactly sure which R&D projects have deployment projects, but our forces got a big boost in defensive and offensive power and our airforce can go on the offensive again once we sweep the Barghests from the sky. Time to put NOD on the backfoot for a bit.
We got +8 power only to immediately lose 4 to power Chicago. Probably complete the fusion plants next turn for +8 more. At least now we have a grace margin of 2 emergency/temporary power. I'm really hoping we can get through the Fusion tech chain before the end of the Plan.
I'm not exactly sure which R&D projects have deployment projects, but our forces got a big boost in defensive and offensive power and our airforce can go on the offensive again once we sweep the Barghests from the sky. Time to put NOD on the backfoot for a bit.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The abatement projects aren't actually going to be worth that much more now than later. Remember that tiberium mutation subtracts a flat number of points from our mitigation scores- and only a few at a time. In principle we can actually keep ahead of it for quite a while, because if we're adding like +6 RZ and YZ mitigation a year and mutation is only subtractin -1d5 mitigation from each category every 1d5 turns or whatever, we're probably gonna be all right.
Also, Tiberium projects are incredibly Resource-intensive, so it becomes very difficult to find the Resources to fund free dice on Tiberium projects unless you really, really short the other areas. Take a look at my plan draft and try to figure out which 15 Resources or so of other projects you want to kill, and which die of military spending you want to drop, for each new die of tiberium.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I just...in case you were not aware the original writers of Command and Conquer had to imagine a world without Hitler in order to believe in the world of Command and Conquer: Tiberium Dawn as they intended Red Alert to be a prequel to Command and Conquer and in the Soviet Ending of that game Kane starts to sow the chaos that will result in Tiberium Dawn.
This argument reads contradictory to the arguments you made on the last page. Could you explain a little better? Cause right now I'm just confused.