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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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staplesdex2 said:
So can we actually handle the Tiberium Abatement stuff now that Kane has the Tacitus as per canon or do we actually go through the timeline of the failed 4th game?
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Considering that one of the elements that had Kane so desperate to seize the Tacitus in canon was that GDI were breaking it with how they were investigating it...

If that was true, I'd say we actually came out sort-of ahead of if we'd kept it. Because the Tacitus is intact, Kane's going to be both developing his own 'minor' improvements to Tiberium Abatement so he can keep Nod alive and prosperous whilst designing the TCN. Thanks to the 'canon' fourth game, we know that Kane is perfectly willing to work with GDI to build the TCN once developed if he can't do it himself.

So between having guaranteed access to Nod's improvements to tiberium collection we can reverse-engineer in the future and the fact that Kane will come to us if he needs to... Well, that's better than desperately trying to fix a broken alien database, extract the specific needed information whilst praying it's not in one of the corrupted sections, doing all the design work on the improvements ourselves, building the improved tiberium abatement measures whilst fighting off Nod, and then building the actual TCN whilst still fighting off at least some elements of Nod. All the whilst still needing to put the resources into maintaining current tiberium abatement and everything else needed to run GDI.

Not perfect by any means. But if (when) Kane comes to us to help build the TCN, at least then we'd know that his next Master Plan at least requires a partially operational TCN. We just need to ensure that his Master Plan doesn't destroy it irreparably, or cripple us. So once he pulls it off, we can repair, rebuild and revitalize our own efforts to eradicate tiberium. Hopefully this time with Kane verified to be dead or at least confirmed to be missing elsewhere than Earth. As with the latter, it just means we need to ensure our interstellar efforts against the Scrin also account for Kane reappearing.
 
Honestly, I don't think Kane would actually resort to approaching GDI to build the TCN unless he had no other options by that point. We're talking about someone who literally started 3 world wars against them. It's also a huge political landmine for GDI, and in canon they only accepted since they were in a corner at that point.

The plot of Tiberian Twilight is also one of those things I would very much like to pretend never happened, even a decade later.
 
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Let us not fool ourselves here. This was a great military disaster for GDI that has greatly limited our options in the future of the quest. Kane has the Tacitus which is a great strategic victory for him and denies us the possibility of constructing the TCN ourselves unless we somehow get the Tacitus back. The Brotherhood of Nod has suffered appalling losses. It has lost several corps of soldiers but body counts have been a poor measure of success or failure in insurgencies historically.

It does not matter how many Nod soldiers that GDI kills if the Brotherhood can simply replenish its losses by recruiting from the Yellow Zone population in a few years. We barely reached into the Yellow Zones so far. I believe that we have been mostly dealing with displaced Blue Zone people who had their old homes eaten by the green rocks during the war and Yellow Zone refugees who moved into GDI controlled territory. People who are more willing to give GDI a chance or at least accept GDI charity in exchange for not shooting at us than other Yellow Zoners. While we have helped a lot of people, the Brotherhood of Nod still has millions and millions of angry and desperate people to recruit from. We will have to press deeper into the Yellow Zones to attack Nod's powerbase and accept that we probably cannot stop Nod from eventually replenishing their numbers to prevent another major strike even if we do significantly weakened Nod influence in the Yellow Zones.

Will the GDI voting public continue to support us sticking GDI's hand into the metaphorical hornet's nest that are the Yellow Zones? While the GDI-Nod conflict is a forever war where grandchildren are constantly fighting skirmishes in a conflict started by their grandparents, there have been major relatively peaceful lulls in the fighting after the big Tiberium Wars which GDI has historically used turned inwards to focus on developing the Blue Zones and to reduce military spending. Now, we are proposing to ramp up military spending and to chase Nod deep into the Yellow Zones with troops and aid workers to assault the heart of Nod's powerbase. Currently, the Hawks and more hawkish Developmentalists who are willing to support this dominate GDI politics as the dovish minded Developmentalist faction metaphorically and literally perished with the Philadelphia. But as memory of the Philiadelphia's destruction fades in intensity and the casualties mount as GDI pushes deeper into the Yellow Zones to pick fights with Nod instead of largely retreating back into the Blue Zones like after the previous wars, will people continue to support GDI expansion into the Yellow Zones? It has been mentioned that it would take about 10-20 years for the Yellow Zone populations to accept GDI as the natural government instead of as the biggest warlord. But would the GDI voting public be willing to wait that long or would they vote in dovish minded Developmentalists to force a withdrawal from the Yellow Zones to return to the pre-war policy of focusing on Blue Zone development?
 
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I will say now mostly because I don't remember if I've said it before but if the tiberium starts mutating I will start pushing for us to work with the qatar loyalists to unlock the divination process. because even if we are building the TCN a lot of people will still die of tiberium exposure from rapidly expanding yellow and red zones, it's best to develop and issue innoculation to the worst effects of tiberium on the body as we work to save our blue marble.
 
More than half of the human race is in the Yellow Zones but that's not the same thing as the voting population, we've only got enough GDI-administered settlements with electricity and reliable internet to make up a dozen parliamentary districts. If we put some effort in we can probably significantly expand their representation in time for the '56 elections and really start shifting the parliamentary makeup towards a large Yellow Zone contingent but it's not there yet we need to build a lot more cities.
 
In short, we basically just need to keep the Blue Zone population calm, whilst continuously making sure that more and more of the Yellow Zone populations at least have reliable and secure access to the vote for the elections and we'll keep the necessary political will to further push into and develop the Yellow Zones.
 
Pyro Hawk said:
In short, we basically just need to keep the Blue Zone population calm, whilst continuously making sure that more and more of the Yellow Zone populations at least have reliable and secure access to the vote for the elections and we'll keep the necessary political will to further push into and develop the Yellow Zones.
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I'm just waiting for Nod propagandists to pull the "we can't let Nod sympathisers into our backyard" card. They wouldn't even have to do much, just give a few politicians some subtle nudges, maybe a couple of strategically placed terror bombings here and there.
 
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Pandering primarily to the Blue Zones and trying to bunker up behind more and more military force has been the strategy for 60 years and it's failed horribly three times now. Obviously the political makeup we're working with right now is heavily drawn from the Blue Zones and Nod is still a threat even if they've had some teeth pulled so Blue Zone investments and moderate military spending are both necessary to keep Parliament happy and our investments un-bombed if nothing else. But the Yellow Zones really need some consistent love and the more we expand in the Yellow Zones the more political will there is to keep investing in them as the voter rolls from the YZ's expand. Of course there's going to be challenges and Nod isn't going to let us just have the place uncontested but we've gotta try. Like I said, the strategy of ignoring them except for when we bomb them has been tried for generations and has backfired horribly every time, even if enfranchising the Yellow Zones is going to be hard we have to make the attempt anyways.
 
I mean until we can at least close down the refugee camps we need to continually invest in yellow zones, but blue zones are where we draw all of our strength from. We should finish reconstructing them before the next election so that when they vote, they aren't doing so from bombed out cities nearly a decade after the end if the war.
 
Enduring Victory is not just a random academic name, or a Horizon: Zero Dawn Reference, although there are certainly elements of both. It is a question. How do we ensure that we do not have to fight a Fourth Tiberium War? Because that is a very serious question in the minds of a fair percent of GDI's political establishment. Not a majority by any means, but one where at least some people have realized that they keep fighting Tiberium Wars, and somehow have not been getting much of anything out of it.
 
Ithillid said:
Enduring Victory is not just a random academic name, or a Horizon: Zero Dawn Reference, although there are certainly elements of both. It is a question. How do we ensure that we do not have to fight a Fourth Tiberium War? Because that is a very serious question in the minds of a fair percent of GDI's political establishment. Not a majority by any means, but one where at least some people have realized that they keep fighting Tiberium Wars, and somehow have not been getting much of anything out of it.
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Killing Kane hasn't worked too well, so he has to be discredited instead. He is the most evil man in human history and the world has to recognize this truth.

The moment Kane can't even walk into his own command center without having people spit in disgust at his presence is the moment GDI will truly have won an Enduring Victory.
 
We need to convince enough of the yellow zoners that live will be better under the GDI as once we do NOD long longer has the manpower to produce its advanced tech and provide its human wave attackers that pin our forces. Without those the few remaining elite forces can be attacked by our entire army instead of being pinned down by the need to fight the massed attacks they are now.

To do this we should improve their standard of living once we can spare dice for it, This can be reconstruction of their infrastructure, new housing, consumer goods or services.
I think doing should not be our top priority but we should spend at least a dice on it in most plans.
Cheap examples are the toy factory and yellow zone reconstruction.
 
I'm going to highlight this again -

[ ] New Moscow Robotics Works - While it will not reach full capacity without the output of more chip fabricators, replacing humans in construction will speed along many projects.

We're likely to finish Boston next turn so having this done immediately should be a priority. As I recall the Aggregate plants cut resconstruction requirements by 100/200 and this is likely to affect other things aswell.

Throwing 3 free dice at it instead of consumers goods - which while useful isn't going to accomplish much in the short term due to the massive short falls - could be useful.

Depending on how significant it's impact is, we could see it paying for itself the next turn.
 
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Ashmaker said:
Killing Kane hasn't worked too well, so he has to be discredited instead. He is the most evil man in human history and the world has to recognize this truth.
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You're talking about trying to discredit one of the most charismatic figures on the planet, who also happens to be a master propagandist and has a considerable number of his followers convinced of his literal divinity. Good idea in theory, have fun with the implementation because GDI's been trying to do exactly that for the past 60 years now with very little success.



For that matter, I don't believe we've actually chipped away at Nod's support base yet, certainly not to the extent that the higher ups would actually feel threatened by it, or else the response would probably be... considerably more effective than the aimless flailings of low level priests and confessors.
 
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Arcus said:
You're talking about trying to discredit one of the most charismatic figures on the planet, who also happens to be a master propagandist and has a considerable number of his followers convinced of his literal divinity. Good idea in theory, have fun with the implementation because GDI's been trying to do exactly that for the past 60 years now with very little success.



For that matter, I don't believe we've actually chipped away at Nod's support base, certainly not to the extent that the higher ups would actually feel threatened by it, or else the response would probably be... considerably more effective than the aimless flailings of low level priests and confessors.
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Three years and a not insubstantial investment have cut out around 1% of NODs manpower last I checked on Discord. Thats not nothing but it's not going to be the easy silver bullet as I think some people are hoping for.
 
SoHowAreYou said:
Three years and a not insubstantial investment have cut out around 1% of NODs manpower last I checked on Discord. Thats not nothing but it's not going to be the easy silver bullet as I think some people are hoping for.
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You say significant but really it's only just begun. We're still in the yellow zone reconstruction after all.

It's the later stages of fortress town / arcologies which will really start putting the sqeeze on NOD. Esepcially if we add yellow zone agriculture / industry to it.
 
SoHowAreYou said:
Three years and a not insubstantial investment have cut out around 1% of NODs manpower last I checked on Discord. Thats not nothing but it's not going to be the easy silver bullet as I think some people are hoping for.
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Schooling and the security services will improve that over time but only when the first cops finish training and the students had several years of education.
 
Scarecrow said:
You say significant but really it's only just begun. We're still in the yellow zone reconstruction after all.

It's the later stages of fortress town / arcologies which will really start putting the sqeeze on NOD. Esepcially if we add yellow zone agriculture / industry to it.
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It'll speed it along but it's going to take years to get to the point where NOD will lose their militia chaff entirely. Like the way I understand it NOD is both a military and social problem. Their core elite formations and units probably don't really give a shit that we're making the yellow zones nicer, their loyalists. The only way to deal with them is through force of arms. The social problem of disaffected yellow zone citizens is something that will take time and effort, but we're making headway on that. We can't just shoot them all so we need to stop them from taking up arms in the first place. Ignoring the military leaves us vulnerable to Kane's higher end shit, while ignoring social issues leave a large population of chaff for NOD to drown us with.
 
Arcus said:
You're talking about trying to discredit one of the most charismatic figures on the planet, who also happens to be a master propagandist and has a considerable number of his followers convinced of his literal divinity. Good idea in theory, have fun with the implementation because GDI's been trying to do exactly that for the past 60 years now with very little success.
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I know, I know. Easier said that done and all that. I do hope that between recruiting people with actual political savvy, the Qatar Loyalists, and building up the Yellow Zones, @Ithillid will give us future options to help win the propaganda war by exposing NOD war crimes.

It's not going to be easy, but dragging popular support away from Kane has to be done. However, one thing that does make it easier is that we have the best possible ally for discrediting NOD: Kane. No one has proven to be as skilled at driving his closest allies and supporters away from his cause than Kane himself.
 
Thule said:
Dont NOD have a lot of problems as there bases are in red zones, with no food and Tiberium poisoning and infrastructure problems?
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Not really? GDI has indoor hydroponics labs, it's one of those things we can expect nod to be better at than GDI The blue zones, in many cases have the advantage of walls and distance. GDI having world wide spy satellites mean a lot of Nod bases are underground and hidden, and as safe from Tiberium as they can make it, Nod have their own anti-tiberium stuff, and have for years. Case in point why they can hide out in deep yellow and borderline red zones like australia.

Frankly, killing off a lot of the Marked is good, and most of the chaff has also been lost during the war, and even more now. And we've likely cut into their elites numbers too. But we can expect, any of those left in nods most secret bases are made up of the most loyal, educated, and skilled of Kanes inner circle, Nods highest ranking and the very best of the best soldiers they have left.

Put simple, Nods Temple Prime at Sarajevo was sat right on top of a massive Tiberium deposit and their base was completely fine. Nod is right about one thing, they are at the absolute cutting edge of tiberium technology, both in countering the crystal, and in human enhancement to adapt to it.

Certainly Nod has a lot of problems. And is still relegated largely to the yellow and red zones. But hoping tiberium will finish them off for us is a slim hope at best.
 
Ashmaker said:
@Ithillid will give us future options to help win the propaganda war by exposing NOD war crimes.
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Most of that stuff is either going on well below the level that it gets to your desk, or just straight up not your area. If you want to fight the propaganda war more actively, open the publishing houses, get radio stations back on air, that kind of thing. Because those are the tools you have and the things that you can do to make GDI's propaganda more effective.
 
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