Accepting this is insane, I'd rather burn Braavos to the fucking ground than allow them to be our Central Bank on these terms, fuck their relationship with the Sealord, he runs a city not an Empire.

If they wish to be fully subservient with guaranteed Family Line positions I'd be okay with it but anything even approaching equal power and MAD is bonkers, you want some bearded idiots to be able to sink an entire plane of existence back into the dark ages whenever they decide to be too stupid for both of our own good?

Let's be real here, that's what you get with MAD and nothing more, if you don't trust them to have our level of judgement or greater at all times then don't get into a MAD relationship.

Agreed, to an extent. I do not support entering into anything approaching an equal relationship with the Iron Bank or Braavos. They can be partners, but they will be the unquestioned subordinates in the relationship.
 
Could you people maybe calm down a bit and consider what the main function of a central bank is in the first place? Printing money, which is accepted because of trust in the institution, not the value of the material the currency is made of. What a newly created bank of us wouldn't have is said trust. The mere idea is preposterous to all of Planetos with the sole exception of the Iron Mark, which has centuries of trust behind it.

As long as we use commodity money, the Iron Bank has very limited leverage on us since we can just print perfectly fine money whenever we feel like it. If we want to move to paper money, the Iron Banks centuries of banked trust is the only way we can make it happen within this generation.
 
Yeah, I think peeps are going a bit too hard on comparing the Iron Bank and the US Federal Reserve. The latter is built on modern economics and experiences(and the faults of it too), which would make Viserys look downright batshit cray cray if he'd started going on about it. Braavos is more akin to Venice in the Renaissance, not New York City in the 1900s.
 
Also I would like to point out that:
1. My vote isn't accepting the deal as is, but clearly stating the same grievances you guys have and asking for control over the IB in return.
2. I don't give a wet fart about the eggs. This is about economics.
 
Yeah, I think peeps are going a bit too hard on comparing the Iron Bank and the US Federal Reserve. The latter is built on modern economics and experiences(and the faults of it too), which would make Viserys look downright batshit cray cray if he'd started going on about it. Braavos is more akin to Venice in the Renaissance, not New York City in the 1900s.
Funnily enough, the US Federal Reserve is privately owned by a bunch of wealthy oligarchs.

And the way it works is simply too crazy for words.
 
Could you people maybe calm down a bit and consider what the main function of a central bank is in the first place? Printing money, which is accepted because of trust in the institution, not the value of the material the currency is made of. What a newly created bank of us wouldn't have is said trust. The mere idea is preposterous to all of Planetos with the sole exception of the Iron Mark, which has centuries of trust behind it.

As long as we use commodity money, the Iron Bank has very limited leverage on us since we can just print perfectly fine money whenever we feel like it. If we want to move to paper money, the Iron Banks centuries of banked trust is the only way we can make it happen within this generation.

Not worth MAD.

Tiamat shitting Wish Gems is also printing money, would you be on board with that?

All she wants is the ability to cause the downfall of an eventual multi-planar empire at admittedly great personal cost.

That's what you're selling Azel, just instead of malevolency their fault is eventual incompetence/poor judgement, tell me why I should give a shit about printing money in the face of such real danger.

Bankers, good bankers sure but bankers all the same, not a single relevant knowledge skill between them and you want to hand them the equivalent of the PC power of our Empire + whatever premium is required to take us down at the cost of themselves.

Right now that's a handful of mid-level parties, 10 years from now it's an Epic Party or two, 100... well you get the picture.

This deal turns them into a self-destruct button for the Empire and we have to hope they won't push themselves, year after year, generation after generation and all in an environment where there are dangers to existence where you need to be level 20 just to think about the concept of them.

How many level 20 bankers are we expecting to consider these and have good judgement on the matter?
 
Funnily enough, the US Federal Reserve is privately owned by a bunch of wealthy oligarchs.

And the way it works is simply too crazy for words.

How the US Federal Reserve is certainly... esoteric, no doubt about that, but it's still built on the foundation of 20-21st century economics(with some 18-19th century economics thrown in for good measure).

If we are to decline the Sealord or negotiate with him(or with the Iron Bank), we can't quite have Viserys allude to the US Federal Reserve and the economic principles it is based on. It'd be... odd.
 
Last edited:
Not worth MAD.

Tiamat shitting Wish Gems is also printing money, would you be on board with that?

All she wants is the ability to cause the downfall of an eventual multi-planar empire at admittedly great personal cost.

That's what you're selling Azel, just instead of malevolency their fault is eventual incompetence/poor judgement, tell me why I should give a shit about printing money in the face of such real danger.

Bankers, good bankers sure but bankers all the same, not a single relevant knowledge skill between them and you want to hand them the equivalent of the PC power of our Empire + whatever premium is required to take us down at the cost of themselves.

Right now that's a handful of mid-level parties, 10 years from now it's an Epic Party or two, 100... well you get the picture.

This deal turns them into a self-destruct button for the Empire and we have to hope they won't push themselves, year after year, generation after generation and all in an environment where there are dangers to existence where you need to be level 20 just to think about the concept of them.

How many level 20 bankers are we expecting to consider these and have good judgement on the matter?
In that case abolish money, because everything you just said holds true for every single central bank that was ever created and not having one locks us into commodity money that can be made worthless with just a whiff of effort and access to the Plane of Minerals.

This is exactly the reason I'm pushing for control over the IB instead of accepting the rancid deal he offered us at first. I've also explicitly ruled out any restrictions on lending within the state, which rules out the IB tanking the entire state on a whim. What they would need to do is tank the whole economy and in that case they loose just as much as we do, with the exception that they have nothing and we still have all the firepower.

This is about making it too costly for us to kill them, not giving them our balls and asking them to squeeze. They don't have the military power to truly threaten the Empire as a whole, even if we enter the retarded deal we just got handed.
 
The fact of the matter is that this is absolutely already a thing we need to consider as something we need to face, regardless of our decision today.

Saying "no" and then walking away from the deal puts our entire relationship in question, since the Iron Bank is the cornerstone of Braavos and has ensured its peace and prosperity through a network of financial dealings that has controlled the direction of wars and business for centuries.

They would still be that powerful whether or not we hammered out a deal to integrate them. They are already ludicrously powerful. The amount of damage they could do only being limited upon our reliance on local supplies for material goods on the Material.

I think trying to find a way to make the arrangement without crippling our ability to maintain stability, but still finding enough guarantees for Braavos' security, is the way to go.
 
Kinship of Shades

Sixteenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC

Garin Drekelis, born the scion of Braavosi aristocracy, had been drilled from a young age in the fine art of smalltalk, of easily making if not friends then at least pleasant acquaintances of those around him. Those same skills had been refined these past few years into an excellent tool for uncovering secrets, or even manipulation at need. Alas, however, that he did not have much experience in sincerely reaching out a hand of friendship. Indeed for all those close to his heart his wife and Wyla were the only ones he had not forged a friendship with in the fires of battle to begin with.

Yet as he left the headquarters of the Inquisition after a day of lecturing that left him slightly nostalgic for his brief time in charge of the Silver Eye, he knew he was the best suited for the task.

"Do you have any plans for this evening?" he asked the young woman who was already beginning to walk back to the keep in a brisk almost hurried gait.

"What? No." The chill winds around her swirled just a little stronger in surprise.

"Then would you consider joining Selyse and me for dinner? She has been interested to meet you for while now," the young Braavosi offered with a smile.

If Garin were any judge, Rina had never been in a position of receiving something so simple as a dinner invitation, had never been in control enough of her own fate to decide who she could associate with socially, and there was no mistaking the loneliness in her eyes.

"I wouldn't know how to act or dress or..." she stuttered out, staring at the cobbles as though she found them abruptly fascinating.

"Ah, yes," Garin laughed. "The refined Sorcerer's Deep manners, born of millennia of tradition and requiring a lifetime to master. Thou shalt never seat a fledgling mage with a view to the library nor a minotaur next to the ale barrel..."

That surprised a laugh out of her, but the joy only lasted a moment, like the sun flashing through a break in the clouds. "Beyond my... magic, I fear she would find me remarkably dull."

"I have certainly not found you so in the time we worked together," he noted gently. Then with a flash of returning humor, "I would not have married Selyse if she had poor taste in people."

"And is good taste defined as agreeing with you?" she asked in a bit of a rush, forcing herself to speak past ingrained shyness.

"Naturally, that is the highest standard," Garin replied in a mock-imperious tone.

"So this is to be only the three of us?" Rina asked, anxiety and hope mingling in her voice. The undertone was clear: only one person she did not know and that one already used to Garin's own divided nature.

He nodded in reply, just before he nimbly jumped aside from the path of a cart driver who had given his horses a little too much head on the wide open boulevards of the Deep.

"Alright, then. I accept," she said at last. This time the smile lasted for a far longer time.

OOC: Originally this was supposed to include Rina's studies, but in the end I think it's stronger for just being a character piece.
Ah, Garin. Straight to the heart!
 
We haz no Blink Dogs on the front page.
They're under "Magical Beasts".
4x Blink Dogs (2 adults, 2 pups)

Of all the hounds of the Feywyld, blink dogs are by far the most kindly of nature. When they run beside the Wild Hunt these fey hounds do so not for bloodlust or savage hunger, but to fulfill pacts and oaths with the more powerful and tempestuous fey. Yet in spite of how highly they praise oaths or indeed their common name (if such elusive creatures can be said to have one) these beings are not properly fey.

How they came into being is beyond even the ken of the dragons of yore, though some suspected that their sorcery is somehow bound up with their reverence for the heavens. One of the most common sayings among their kind is "The stars do not lie."
 
Xor: "It's like home, but with less tentacles!"

Morphic time + anyone with authority over temporal aspect that might be unfriendly or worse = terror. :D It's basically why I'm so against visiting the feywild.

That and as much practice Viserys has with maps, he will still probably get lost as... feywild. Maps are probably used as a joke object there. Except the time where one assumes that it is useless or detrimental, and it turns out to be useful, or would have had been useful, if not for the choice to not use it.
 
[X] Azel
Azel makes a compelling argument. Which I suppose is a bit of a redundant statement at this point.
If we can get a (non-terrible) version of this deal in place, that will pave the way for a nice peaceful integration of Viserys' first real home, and I think we'd be doing the character a disservice if we didn't at least try to arrange that. Not to mention some path to integration of Braavos has been a thread goal for a good long while.

Besides, we already calculate everything in IM anyway ;)
Edit: tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Sqweaktoy on Jul 2, 2018 at 8:59 PM, finished with 101 posts and 12 votes.

  • [X] Plan More Politics
    -[X] "That is quite a weighty matter and the implications far reaching. To give that much power in my realm to an entity wholly beyond the states control would be folly."
    -[X] "First and foremost, monopolies are poison for each market, so any such agreement would require that the Iron Bank does not try to leverage it to destroy any competitors. To have such central services controlled by only one entity across a large realm could have dire consequences for its economy. Competition is what drives us to greater heights after all and complacency invites rot."
    -[X] "Such a partnership would require that I can influence the Iron Banks workings and I need to retain some leeway in certain areas. Loans and financial services from the state to the state are not covered by this agreement. Likewise, my businesses need to retain the ability to loan and invest money for their own operations."
    -[X] "Furthermore, there are some rather weighty plans that I have in mind. Reforms that could make or break entire economies, but might be necessary far too soon in this changing world, no matter how much I wished to let these plans sit until a time of peace of stability."
    -[X] Pause a moment and show clearly on your face that the next statement is neither made lightly, nor born of greed.
    -[X] "In principle, I am quite content with my association with the Iron Bank so far, but I'm ill at ease at the thought of binding myself so tightly to it that it restricts my movements. I would be willing to offer it my patronage to the extent you wish, but I can only do so in exchange for influence and control to match."
    -[X] "Mind you that the spirit of such an agreement would be sacrosanct. I'm talking about leverage to influence business for the benefit of the state and all its citizens, not to rip the building out of Braavos and bring it vaults and all to the Deep. It would be the height of disrespect to meddle with an institution of it's pedigree for frivolous and petty reasons."
 
Last edited:
How about we renegotiate? This is worth more than just three dragon eggs. Braavos is the core region of the Faith of the Moonsingers in "Western Essos". We have witnessed the power of their primary Goddess and still have that treasure in hand.

Agree to the terms, but ask for the service of the Herald of the Laughing Moon (Mirror Mephit). The Iron Bank must coordinate with the Moonsinger church to make it so.

Simulacrums and more portals to other realms, anyone?
 
I'm not against the deal entirely, I just want it made very clear that MAD is not enough and nor is an extra Dragon Egg or two.

As long as people are considering of the fact that the Iron Bank as an institution will progress in tandem with the power and scope of the entire Empire, keeping in mid that plans to keep territories of manageable size will ensure that the Iron Bank eclipses every one of them in time, then I am as happy as I can be.
 
I'm not against the deal entirely, I just want it made very clear that MAD is not enough and nor is an extra Dragon Egg or two.

As long as people are considering of the fact that the Iron Bank as an institution will progress in tandem with the power and scope of the entire Empire, keeping in mid that plans to keep territories of manageable size will ensure that the Iron Bank eclipses every one of them in time, then I am as happy as I can be.

I'm not good at this area, but I feel that dragon eggs, now that we already have one for Marlys and Amy, are not even worth considering in the scale of this agreement. Maybe they are the equivalent of the complementary bar that is stocked when one buys a yacht*?

*assuming that one gets the bar stocked (or a few bottles of expensive alcohol at least), I've never bought a yacht.
 
Back
Top