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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Crake said:
I can see us taking over Slaver's Bay. We wouldn't be able to do anything with it, and it would be a flaming trash fire the entire time we held it and an albatross necklace writ large, but we could take it.

We just woiuldn't be able to do anything with it for a long time.
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And all the while it would need occupation troops, both mundane Legionaires and lots of powerful support for the Inquistion.

People we would seriously need in Westeros and Essos, against Deep Ones and Fey and likely other foes too.
 
Artemis1992 said:
And all the while it would need occupation troops, both mundane Legionaires and lots of powerful support for the Inquistion.

People we would seriously need in Westeros and Essos, against Deep Ones and Fey and likely other foes too.
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We could do it, and the other stuff. It would be hard, we would be blowing resources on it, and probably lose some stuff.

But it would be impossible for anyone else to do anything meaningful with it either in the meanwhile.
 
BronzeTongue said:
The fey will probably go for weaponizing narrativium with something like a cheesy "chosen one" plot.
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Oh goody! I've been wanting to turn one of those to our side, the whole Empire thing just doesn't feel complete until you've pulled that off.

We've got our neutral and allied chosen ones of course and Brienne comes close-ish, but it's just not the same.
 
Crake said:
We could do it, and the other stuff. It would be hard, we would be blowing resources on it, and probably lose some stuff.

But it would be impossible for anyone else to do anything meaningful with it either in the meanwhile.
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Maybe we could do it.

But in the larger picture, I think it might be preferable to just arrange ourselves with Asmodeus having an outpost in our world.
All those memes on world domination are nice, but to be honest, Slaver's Bay would have little value for us even if we could control it.

Writing off the whole area for a few years while we deal with the kind of enemies that are proactivly working on killing or enslaving the whole world looks like a more and more tempting option.
And since they are devils, they would actually keep to a truce if we can work one out. Though we'll have to look very closely over the actual treaty.
 
Let's be honest: a large outpost of devils right next to our Realm just won't work out well.
Sure with Teleport everything is "right next to" us, but actual physical proximity is even worse because it lets mundane monsters/humans + transport of goods be problems too.
I expect any such situation to be a constant thorn in our side at the border, and regular plots against us we'd have to keep hammering down. And on top of that, it'd hurt our legitimacy and probably wind up disruptive to Imperial society and institutions.

Basically we'd be trading "less effort now" for "constant pain in the ass for all of eternity, backed with Hell's military might if we attack outright".
 
Artemis1992 said:
Maybe we could do it.

But in the larger picture, I think it might be preferable to just arrange ourselves with Asmodeus having an outpost in our world.
All those memes on world domination are nice, but to be honest, Slaver's Bay would have little value for us even if we could control it.

Writing off the whole area for a few years while we deal with the kind of enemies that are proactivly working on killing or enslaving the whole world looks like a more and more tempting option.
And since they are devils, they would actually keep to a truce if we can work one out. Though we'll have to look very closely over the actual treaty.
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Cool story, but they just get more ridiculously irritating the longer we let them entrench themselves, all in preparation for making our squaring off even more devastating than it could have been. I would delay an invasion of Westeros to fight off an incursion from Hell.
 
Westeros is a shitpile, but it's still less bad than actual Hell.
Hey Cersei, you hear this? You're being outdone! Get to work and make your Kingdom number one again!
 
Artemis1992 said:
Yes.

But you can't tell me being ruled by actual devils wouldn't be an improvement for Slaver's Bay at least?
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Of course it wouldn't be an improvement. The slaves have an actual fighting chance at overthrowing their Masters now, but it'll be much harder when they're ruled by competent immortal superbeings under a single leader.
And the devils probably won't treat their slaves any better (in most cases).
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
And the devils probably won't treat their slaves any better (in most cases).
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At least initially, they likely will.

Being better, making life better, than the rulers before you is a vital part of propaganda while you are occupying something. We have done it every time, and not just out of the goodness of our heart.
The devils can invest ressources, bring magitech, can start a religion with Asmodeus as a firm (okay iron-fisted), but well-meaning overlord, and have that religion heal the sick and wounded.
They can start big work-projects that gives the poor non-slaves a chance to get an income while boosting their self-worth, which is basically the closest to charity a devil could comprehend.

Now, in the long term the fact that they are fiends, that cruelty is part of their very selves beyond the original purpose it might have served, will show itself. Devils will make the place Hell, because that's what they are and what they do, but that need not be the first showing.

The first showing will be a "but they brought jobs, build roads and sold food for low prices" situation, at least by my guess. The whole stupid "Fascism makes the trains run on time" narrative.
 
Artemis1992 said:
At least initially, they likely will.

Being better, making life better, than the rulers before you is a vital part of propaganda while you are occupying something. We have done it every time, and not just out of the goodness of our heart.
The devils can invest ressources, bring magitech, can start a religion with Asmodeus as a firm (okay iron-fisted), but well-meaning overlord, and have that religion heal the sick and wounded.
They can start big work-projects that gives the poor non-slaves a chance to get an income while boosting their self-worth, which is basically the closest to charity a devil could comprehend.
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Do devils even see the worth in low-level mortal slaves? Mereth certainly didn't, and didn't even seem used to the idea (so she can't have been exposed to manager-devils who did). They have lesser devils for such tasks, etc: mortal souls are just there as fodder and to create more devils!
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Do devils even see the worth in low-level mortal slaves? Mereth certainly didn't, and didn't even seem used to the idea (so she can't have been exposed to manager-devils who did). They have lesser devils for such tasks, etc: mortal souls are just there as fodder and to create more devils!
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But if you do not use up the mortal souls to quickly, they are a renewable ressource.
It's better if 5000 souls go to Hell every year from natural/work/war related deaths, than 50.000 at once.
And even if 50.000 do die at once, say because we invade, that only means Hell gets those souls plus all the ones they got in the time they kept Slaver's Bay functioning.

So from a Harvester's or manager's perspective, keeping the majority of people in an occupied region of the Material Plane on you side, is necessarily a net-win in souls.

Besides the pure soul economy of course, it is also desirable to have less resistance movements in the area. While low-level mortals are not actually a threat to occupying devils, they can either help actually dangerous foes (like Viserys) with their local knowledge, or they can turn more people to non-LE alignments and thus cost Hell souls by dying free.

Mereth has been fighting primarily in the Blood War, where most mortals are in fact useless in terms of direct engagements. I doubt she has ever looked deeper into the underlying economy of Hell.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 7, 2020 at 4:58 AM, finished with 53 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Arrange a clandestine meeting, something both tempting and urgent.
    -[X] News can filter through the Keep of the poisoning in greater detail, and it can slip through that the Lord of the Tides is trying to figure out a way to protect himself against it by contacts from the East.
    --[X] Monford is usually accompanied by escort when he leaves the Keep and not far from protection while within it besides, but in light of this new threat suddenly developing a bout of short-term paranoia until he is protected against assassination seems a reasonable assumption, skipping meals and ordering the maids not to prepare his clothes might help sell the story better. Under the cover of darkness "he" will leave the Keep with his "wife" and "son" under woolen cloaks, presumably to perform a "switch" and become out of their reach, but still able to keep up the facade that they are in command of the Keep remotely.
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I'm definitely of the opinion we should handle Slavers' Bay even if it fucks with all other ops.
We just won't be able to handle an established Devil presence there if we let them shore up.
Simple as that.

I also kinda hate this, but j dont really see a way out that doesn't fuck us in some manner.
Most do so far more than keeping Slavers' Bay a dumpster fire while we spread ourselves over several fronts for several years.
 
And having Yss gulp down the Red Dragon Orb/us taking the dragon down so Yss could eat it is just a matter of time-convenience, @Crake.

Let's be real, we can prepare a killzone for it. Reasonably enough In-Character as OOC.

But if we ever really need the orb sacrificed and a boon from Yss gained?
I just don't feel like we'd have the time to gather the whole Companion-crew and set up the Doom-Pit.

5/8 chance to not even have the fight is good enough for me to try, and if that fails, well, I put my trust in the murderfish.

I'm not going to die on this hill, but I feel like it's the most reasonable approach considering the amount of threats that can just pop out on us at the moment.
 
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We could just run the orb sacrifice now, and ask him to curse the fuck out of anything diabolic in the confines of Slaver's Bay. If that's too large of a region, then we could pick a city to use as a safe zone and ask for a long term effect that makes it hard for them to do anything. Either some sort of faerie fire outlining of devils, or maybe making all attacks count as devil bane as long as they start within the city walls?

Spending the problem sacrifice on mitigating Hell's influence seems like a good deal to me.
edit: better idea for the effect - wisdom debuff. It's hard to pull all the subtle shit they love when their minions start acting like idiots as soon as they enter the city/region.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
We could just run the orb sacrifice now, and ask him to curse the fuck out of anything diabolic in the confines of Slaver's Bay. If that's too large of a region, then we could pick a city to use as a safe zone and ask for a long term effect that makes it hard for them to do anything. Either some sort of faerie fire outlining of devils, or maybe making all attacks count as devil bane as long as they start within the city walls?

Spending the problem sacrifice on mitigating Hell's influence seems like a good deal to me.
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That's asking too much for even a CR 23 sacrifice. Maybe it could work for something temporary, but not a long term ongoing effect.

I get why ya'll might want to get rid of the orb sooner rather than later, I've been of that opinion off and on myself, but there really is no time pressure to do so. I would rather save it for now, since having such an impressive sacrifice might be extremely helpful in the future.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jun 7, 2020 at 4:58 AM, finished with 53 posts and 13 votes.
  • [X] Arrange a clandestine meeting, something both tempting and urgent.
    -[X] News can filter through the Keep of the poisoning in greater detail, and it can slip through that the Lord of the Tides is trying to figure out a way to protect himself against it by contacts from the East.
    --[X] Monford is usually accompanied by escort when he leaves the Keep and not far from protection while within it besides, but in light of this new threat suddenly developing a bout of short-term paranoia until he is protected against assassination seems a reasonable assumption, skipping meals and ordering the maids not to prepare his clothes might help sell the story better. Under the cover of darkness "he" will leave the Keep with his "wife" and "son" under woolen cloaks, presumably to perform a "switch" and become out of their reach, but still able to keep up the facade that they are in command of the Keep remotely.
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Part MMMDXXXIV: Uncertain Paths
  • Threadmarks
    • Uncertain Paths ​

    Twenty Fourth Day of the First Month 294 AC

    You play the part of Monford Velaryon growing increasingly snappish and paranoid, skipping meals and ordering maids not to prepare his clothes. Once the servants had grown troubled and suspicious of this change in their lord you reveal the poisoning to an armsman just unreliable enough for the tale to spread, and later that evening let it be overheard that the Lord of the Tides is trying to figure out a way to protect himself against it by contacts from the east. In High Tide 'the east' might as well mean 'the Dragon King', no one with eyes to see the Silver Serpent ships in the harbor could fail to make the connection.

    Thus under cover of night 'Monford' together with his 'wife' and 'son' leave the keep hidden woolen cloaks, presumably to perform some manner of exchange or trickery and become out of the assassin's reach, but still able to keep up the facade that they are in command of the Keep remotely.

    Alas, no figures materialize from the darkened woods, no poisoned darts fly through the air as you ride across the stony paths of Driftmark until dawn's light creeps over the horizon. Your foe proves too wise to take the bait.

    "They know we can translocate," Dany says when you are all back in Monford's solar alongside the lord himself and Valaena who had not left his side throughout. "A locked door would have served our purposes of allowing the exchange assuming we had planned ahead for something like this, and it looks like whoever's after you, my lord, is assuming competence on all our parts."

    "I cannot say I am flattered," Lord Velaryon says dryly. "I would rather be underestimated by living foes and admired for my cleverness only by the dead ones."

    Valaena giggles, looking perhaps a little surprised at herself for having laughed at one of her father's jokes. "So what do we do now?"

    "I can stay," Dany offers. "Viserys and Ser Richard have to go to a meeting soon, but I'll be here at least until the turn of the month, keeping watch..." Keeping watch over the Faceless as much as the assassin they are here to catch, her tone makes clear. "So what role should I play? Spit turner in the kitchens? A servant's child?"

    "Your Highness, I couldn't ask you..." Now Monford sounds horrified at the prospect, but Dany interjects.

    "It has to be something out of the way so I'm not obvious to simple observation and I would prefer a child, it's a lot more comfortable to keep the guise for days."

    "She does have a point, my lord," you point out before she could raise any further objection. "Also, I can attest from personal experience that while on the road to Mantarys that she was not squeamish about scrubbing pans if it came down to it."

    "Well for some reason no one wanted to let me try cooking...." your sister sniffs dramatically, likely at the memory of the time she had tried to help Tyene and ended up with stew so over-seasoned you practically needed a dragon's stomach to keep it down.

    "I want to stay too and not just for the month, as long as it takes," Valaena's words whisper in your ear on spell-wrought wind. For a moment you wonder why she did not say so aloud then she adds. "I could not stand it to be off in Sorcerer's Deep or off on some far off journey and only to hear father or mother had been killed when I could have stayed to help protect them."

    What do you reply?

    [] Accept, Valaena may stay, potentially into next month if the assassin is not caught before then

    [] Refuse, she and Dawnfyre can do more good elsewhere

    OOC: No confrontation unfortunately, so here's a short closing update before we head off to Heaven's Shore.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • DragonParadox said:
    Uncertain Paths ​

    Twenty Fourth Day of the First Month 294 AC

    You play the part of Monford Velaryon growing increasingly snappish and paranoid, skipping meals and ordering maids not to prepare his clothes. Once the servants had grown troubled and suspicious of this change in their lord, you reveal the poisoning to an armsman just unreliable enough for the tale to spread and later that evening let it be overheard that the Lord of the Tides is trying to figure out a way to protect himself against it by contacts from the East. In High Tide, 'the east' might as well mean 'the Dragon King'. No one with eyes to see the Silver Serpent ships in the harbor could fail to make the connection.

    Thus, under cover of night, 'Monford' together with his 'wife' and 'son', leave the keep hidden woolen cloaks, presumably to perform some manner of exchange or trickery and move out of the assassin's reach, but still able to keep up the facade that they are in command of the Keep remotely.

    Alas, no figures materialize from the darkened woods, no poisoned darts fly through the air as you ride across the stony paths of Driftmark until dawn's light creeps over the horizon. Your foe proves too wise to take the bait.

    "They know we can translocate," Dany says when you are all back in Monford's solar alongside the lord himself and Valaena who had not left his side throughout. "A locked door would have served our purposes of allowing the exchange assuming we had planned ahead for something like this, and it looks like whoever's after you, my lord, is assuming competence on all our parts."

    "I cannot say I am flattered," Lord Velaryon says dryly. "I would rather be underestimated by living foes and admired for my cleverness only by the dead ones."

    Valaena giggles, looking perhaps a little surprised at herself for having laughed at one of her father's jokes. "So what do we do now?"

    "I can stay," Dany offers. "Viserys and Ser Richard have to go to a meeting soon, but I'll be here at least until the turn of the month, keeping watch..." Keeping watch over the Faceless as much as the assassin they are here to catch, her tone makes clear. "So what role should I play? Spit turner in the kitchens? A servant's child?"

    "Your Highness I couldn't ask you..." Now Monford sounds horrified at the prospect, but Dany interjects.

    "It has to be something out of the way so I'm not obvious to simple observation and I would prefer a child, it's a lot more comfortable to keep the guise for days."

    "She does have a point my lord," you point out before she could raise any further objection. "Also, I can attest from personal experience on the road to Mantarys that she is not squeamish about scrubbing pans if to comes to it."

    "Well, for some reason no one wanted to let me try cooking...." your sister sniffs dramatically, likely at the memory of the time she had tried to help Tyene and ended up with stew so over-seasoned you practically needed a dragon's stomach to keep it down.

    "I want to stay too and not just for the month, as long as it takes," Valaena's words whisper in your ear on spell-wrought wind. For a moment you wonder why she did not say so aloud, then she adds, "I could not stand it to be off in Sorcerer's Deep or off on some far off journey and to hear father or mother had been killed when I could have stayed to help protect them."

    What do you reply?

    [] Accept Valaena may stay, potentially into next month if the assassin is not caught before then

    [] Refuse, she and Dawnfyre can do more good elsewhere

    OOC: No confrontation unfortunately so here's a short closing update before we head off the Heaven's Shore. Not yet edited.
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    Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
     
    Well, I knew it. The assassin knows that we know. There is not much to be done now.

    @DragonParadox , can we save the soul of the maiden that was actually murdered from the soul-stealing needle?
     
    Well, that sucks a little.
    [X] Refuse, she and Dawnfyre can do more good elsewhere

    Let's not let sentimentality cloud our judgment, she's a minion who'll be of more use looking into Qohor/Sarnori Undead/killing Devils/etc.

    The dragon is her weapon too, can't discount it as a power-multiplier... not one others cant use without her present.
     
    @DragonParadox, has Valaena earned a level up? She's been through a lot and done quite a bit of adventuring since she last leveled following that duel with the Shadowbinder on the way to Yi-Ti.
     
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