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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Azel said:
Things like these are what Mark of Justice was invented for. If you want more, I'm sure the merry band of mad scientists in Gorgossos can figure something out that is more... permanent and thorough.
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We could also just use bestow curse to make casting spells painful or something. We don't need to get exotic with this case.


tarrangar said:
She did send her sister out into the world, but there's no hint that she planned for her sister to die.
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She knowingly sent her totally unprepared sister out into a life threatening environment. At best she didn't think about it, and at worst she was relying on it to avoid having her legitimacy challenged later. Given how meticulously she planned every part of this except how her sister would survive I'm inclined to think she was aware of the danger and sent her anyway.
 
Azel said:
Things like these are what Mark of Justice was invented for. If you want more, I'm sure the merry band of mad scientists in Gorgossos can figure something out that is more... permanent and thorough.
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I was thinking to start with a Mark of Justice and a Contingent spell to alert us of the first instance of spellcasting by or upon her.

There's really not much more we can do at that point besides continually send divinations her way and delegate someone to check in with her semi-regularly. I would also tell her about the lengths we have gone to in order to track someone down and tell her if undying vengeance sounds appealing right about now, better than her have tried and failed.
 
tarrangar said:
Vaela isn't enchanted, they didn't use permanent spells to do this, they used things like our social buffs, and social debuffs on her, to convince her that traveling the world was a good idea, there is no active enchantment, merely convincing herm while she was under magic that made her more suggestible, that traveling the world was a great idea.
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Wrong, she was under compulsion.
 
Crake said:
Wrong, she was under compulsion.
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I think it started with something on the level of Charm person from the start, then the rest of her willpower was eroded through other means, not always direct compulsion.

I think even in the normal D&D you can use spells like Charm Person to condition someone.
 
Crake said:
I was thinking to start with a Mark of Justice and a Contingent spell to alert us of the first instance of spellcasting by or upon her.

There's really not much more we can do at that point besides continually send divinations her way and delegate someone to check in with her semi-regularly. I would also tell her about the lengths we have gone to in order to track someone down and tell her if undying vengeance sounds appealing right about now, better than her have tried and failed.
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How about Mark of Justice and a Permanencied (paid for via diamond dust rather than XP) version of Curse of Magic Negation keyed to activate with the Mark.

Curse of Magic Negation – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com www.d20pfsrd.com
 
ryuan said:
I think it started with something on the level of Charm person from the start, then the rest of her willpower was eroded through other means, not always direct compulsion.

I think even in the normal D&D you can use spells like Charm Person to condition someone.
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That's really only slightly better than the more inhumane ways of brainwashing someone in reality.

At the end of the day her mind was twisted around, saying that "she rolled some really good diplomacy" is actively misleading at best and false at worst.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Wait, was she the girl who got brainwashed into liking some old guy?
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N-no?

Uh, I think you got your Dornish plot-lines mixed up. Arianne was 'offered in betrothal' to several older lords as a smokescreen to her one with us.

You know, before she 'politely' refused to marry us to our faces without realizing it was to our face.

It's even funnier when she realized we had no interest in marrying her either and she felt like she got rejected.
 
Crake said:
That's really only slightly better than the more inhumane ways of brainwashing someone in reality.

At the end of the day her mind was twisted around, saying that "she rolled some really good diplomacy" is actively misleading at best and false at worst.
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No, I agree. I'm saying the job isn't easy to fix because of how through it is, which makes it scarier. She really can't get only a slap in the wrist for this.
 
Crake said:
N-no?

Uh, I think you got your Dornish plot-lines mixed up. Arianne was 'offered in betrothal' to several older lords as a smokescreen to her one with us.

You know, before she 'politely' refused to marry us to our faces without realizing it was to our face.

It's even funnier when she realized we had no interest in marrying her either and she felt like she got rejected.
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Wait then who is this person?
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Wait then who is this person?
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If you check on the link in the middle of the update before the last one, Doran mentions her entire situation in relation to the one we are discussing now. She's the heir of Ghost Hill and House Toland of Dorne, who her sister whammied into abdicating her birthright and leaving to go "seeking adventure".
 
Crake said:
If you check on the link in the middle of the update before the last one, Doran mentions her entire situation in relation to the one we are discussing now. She's the heir of Ghost Hill and House Toland of Dorne, who her sister whammied into abdicating her birthright and leaving to go "seeking adventure".
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Oh right...that usurpation plot...I see the need for wariness. Also, I realized where I got mixed up. There was that Witch who was mind-controlling people to avoid getting married or some such thing and then the stories mixed up.
 
[X] Consider her request for a moment, as if genuinely surprised. In truth, you somewhat are.
-[X] "I'll speak to Lady Vaela myself, and if she is amenable, transport her here to speak with you." Making it clear you're reluctant to force her into returning. "If nothing else, unless she was given cause to harden her heart against entreaties to take up her duties as heir, she should at least be willing to discuss the matter with you in person."
-[X] Make eye contact with Teora, "Perhaps her sister would be willing to meet with her on your behalf? From what little I know of Lady Vaela, there isn't any rift between siblings to worry about."
-[X] Take Teora to the House of Mirrors first, and explain to her, in exhaustive details, what it is used for, first from a mercantile perspective, and then from an intelligence gathering one.
-[X] "Your reckless actions were doomed from the start, if Prince Doran can deduce the truth of your folly with far less resources than I possess. You are going to fix this."
-[X] You aren't actually entirely certain how she'll react to you calling her on her ill-fated plot, but given your prior history with trying to strong-arm impulsive people into following your lead, you are just going to assume if you actually get to this point she will have an appropriately dramatic reveal that makes a bald threat pointless, at least until she actually plays her hand.

At this point, I'm re-writing the end of my vote mostly because I am convinced that we are cursed when it comes to actually making threats during appropriately dramatic moments. She's probably going to blurt something out that vastly over-complicates what should be a simple resolution and I think it is best we move through the five stages of grief already and skip to "acceptance".
 
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Crake said:
N-no?

Uh, I think you got your Dornish plot-lines mixed up. Arianne was 'offered in betrothal' to several older lords as a smokescreen to her one with us.

You know, before she 'politely' refused to marry us to our faces without realizing it was to our face.

It's even funnier when she realized we had no interest in marrying her either and she felt like she got rejected.
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Well we are the one to actually convince Doran to break the betrothal.

Was it because she didn't feel like she had a choice or something? Then once she learned we didn't want her she ever wonder why not her?

Think she heard of our doubts from Tyene back in the day?
 
mrsean22 said:
Well we are the one to actually convince Doran to break the betrothal.

Was it because she didn't feel like she had a choice or something? Then once she learned we didn't want her she ever wonder why not her?

Think she heard of our doubts from Tyene back in the day?
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No, Tyene promised Doran she would not mention it to Arianne. And wonder of wonders, Tyene actually kept her promise.

Tyene was our creature not that long after she joined our party fully. We could trust her more than Doran long before we were able to trust Doran more than most of our vassals due to familial ties.
 
Crake said:
No, Tyene promised Doran she would not mention it to Arianne. And wonder of wonders, Tyene actually kept her promise.

Tyene was our creature not that long after she joined our party fully. We could trust her more than Doran long before we were able to trust Doran more than most of our vassals due to familial ties.
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Man sometimes I forget how awesome Tyene is. Smart and loyal. Taking her seriously and giving her lots of power helps too.

What was Arianne reason for not wanting to be with Viserys anyway? Didn't she also insult or something? Well not knowing we were there anyway.
 
mrsean22 said:
Man sometimes I forget how awesome Tyene is. Smart and loyal. Taking her seriously and giving her lots of power helps too.

What was Arianne reason for not wanting to be with Viserys anyway? Didn't she also insult or something? Well not knowing we were there anyway.
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It's a bit of teenaged melodrama and a bit of legitimate grievance. Dorne gives more latitude to women and she is the rightful heir to Sunspear, thus disinheriting her by implicitly arranging a betrothal to a suitor who would cause a succession crisis without even consulting her, by someone she felt betrayed by who she should ordinarily be able to trust... Doran is digging himself out of that dog house still, and things have only gotten better, but basically because Arianne's problems with it were mostly emotional ones, literally the only thing that might have made her okay with the match was if we plead to get a chance to court her first before actually making anything official.

Because we had no intention of even doing that much, a possibility that rested in the back of her mind likely because she didn't want to plot betrayal as an alternative, it was like a double whammy of insecurity from both ends.

She got over it once we explained ourselves. It is apparently much more acceptable that we already fell in love with someone than that we felt repulsed by her.
 
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