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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
Spoilers below:
We've recruited them, but under threat. They betrayed the Targaryens in Robert's Rebellion via squatting at Storm's End and not marching to join Rhaegar, and afterwards made absolutely no move to contact us when we were in Braavos or later in the Stepstones, so they're bending the knee and being allowed to keep Highgarden... but are stripped of their Lord Paramouncy.

They've made a lot of pretty bad decisions we're going to have to clean up.
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Good to know, but I was referring to the Westerosi Adventurers, Garth, Danelle, Aryssa and Brandon. Sorry for being unclear.
 
Tman2033 said:
Good to know, but I was referring to the Westerosi Adventurers, Garth, Danelle, Aryssa and Brandon. Sorry for being unclear.
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Spoilers below again.
Tense relations due to us being at odds with the Seven. We've met them a few times but generally agree to cooperate against things like Deep Ones and the Others.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Don't give me a reason at all. I just need a vote and I will gladly damm their souls to the Hells
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OBJECTION!!!

Our grandma seems to be a tad senile these days. She must've been so lonely and dreary after being put in that asylum. Wouldn't it be nice if we could send some people to take care of her? Y'know as a sign of gratitude for all of her 'gifts' that she has given us all these years?

I'm sure she'll appreciate it.
 
Duesal said:
They are definitely not Linnorms.

EDIT: Though I'd love to kill Linnorms at some point.
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I would love to meet a proper Lindorm instead of the D&D knockoffs, I mean D&D Linnorms don't even cause gold to grow.

Proper Lindorms are small snakes until you give them a pinch of gold, then they grow into gigantic beasts in just a few months or years, while their pinch of gold grow into a full hoard.

D&D Linnorms on the other hand are just some stupid dragon variant, the gold growing murder snakes, are far better than knockoff dragon number 38.

But yeah I prefer Lindorms as cute little snakes, that turn gigantic and vicious if you give them gold, to them just being another dragon variant.
 
tarrangar said:
I would love to meet a proper Lindorm instead of the D&D knockoffs, I mean D&D Linnorms don't even cause gold to grow.

Proper Lindorms are small snakes until you give them a pinch of gold, then they grow into gigantic beasts in just a few months or years, while their pinch of gold grow into a full hoard.

D&D Linnorms on the other hand are just some stupid dragon variant, the gold growing murder snakes, are far better than knockoff dragon number 38.

But yeah I prefer Lindorms as cute little snakes, that turn gigantic and vicious if you give them gold, to them just being another dragon variant.
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This is a terrible idea. You know that if they cause gold to grow, Duesal will suggest industrially farming them or something. And then someone will sabotage our automatic "grow, wait, kill" facility and release Lindorms all over Sororythos...
Sounds like an upgrade from bear asses for a high-leveld Maelor!
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
This is a terrible idea. You know that if they cause gold to grow, Duesal will suggest industrially farming them or something. And then someone will sabotage our automatic "grow, wait, kill" facility and release Lindorms all over Sororythos...
Sounds like an upgrade from bear asses for a high-leveld Maelor!
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Gold is largely pointless at our industrial level - as we aren't making any circuits, and have better alternatives for use in medicine.
It is not inherently magical (nor any interactions with magic - like Silver versus Undead, and lead against Divination) and the value-via-rareness is no longer a thing thanks to PoE.
Like, seriously.

The only thing it would be worth of, is adding Bling to Imperial infrastructure.
...And feeding Xorn allies.
 
@Goldfish, regarding Maelor and 8th-leveled spells : would you be fine with him only casting spells as a level 15 Sorcerer? That's still crazily powerful, and it keeps his build much neater (and avoids taking his focus away from his Warlock abilities).
I've just realised that Maelor has 5 levels left after Eltrich Theurge. At level 15 he will effectively be a Warlock 14/Sorcerer 11, and after that if he takes all 5 Inquisitorial Asset levels he'll be a Warlock 18/Sorcerer 15. Not bad! All he'd be losing is a single level 8 spell, but it keeps his build fairly clean (and gives him the Inquisitorial Asset capstone, constant Discern Lies and 5 virtual ranks in all untrained skills). Otherwise I guess he could only take the first 4 levels and then take an extra level of Mindbender or something, but honestly that feels rather ungainly.

EDIT : All builds that give him Sorcerer 16 end up gimping his Warlock progression, which is really what makes him special compared to the rest of our Sorcerers. It also allows him amazing army-killing potential, unusual combat strategies (suboptimal compared to rocket tag of course, this is 3.5, but still worth keeping!), and almost-Evil street cred.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
This is a terrible idea. You know that if they cause gold to grow, Duesal will suggest industrially farming them or something. And then someone will sabotage our automatic "grow, wait, kill" facility and release Lindorms all over Sororythos...
Sounds like an upgrade from bear asses for a high-leveld Maelor!
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I doubt we would do that, it just sound stupid, Lindorms are very much dangerous, and gold isn't that valuable, now if Lindorms caused Adamantine to go you would have a problem, but we are allied with the Opaline Vault, repeatedly fighting CR10-15 super snakes, to turn a gram of gold into a few hundred kilos, don't sound like a good idea.

After all while Lindorms grow gold, the amount they grow, aren't necessarily that great compared to how strong they become, the legend tell it turned a small amount of gold into a treasure worthy of a king, but the king in question is a Scandinavian petty king, those kings weren't known for their great wealth, so the treasure probably only consisted of a few hundred kilos of gold.

In a time where you can buy a horse for a few silvers, turning 1 gold coin into a thousand a great boon, but for us it's not that great, if the limit of Lindorm gold growth, is that as a Lindorm grows, it can turn ten gold coins, into ten thousand gold coins.
 
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egoo said:
Gold is largely pointless at our industrial level - as we aren't making any circuits, and have better alternatives for use in medicine.
It is not inherently magical (nor any interactions with magic - like Silver versus Undead, and lead against Divination) and the value-via-rareness is no longer a thing thanks to PoE.
Like, seriously.

The only thing it would be worth of, is adding Bling to Imperial infrastructure.
...And feeding Xorn allies.
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1 : This is technically incorrect. The Shaitan have maintained a relatively stable value of gold among the Planes, and we could get it on that racket.
2 : We buy stupider and more useless stuff all the time. Remember the Hippogriff debacle?
3 : BLING sometimes feels like Viserys' main goal.

tarrangar said:
I doubt we would do that, it just sound stupid, Lindorms are very much dangerous, and gold isn't that valuable, now if Lindorms caused Adamantine to go you would have a problem, but we are allied with the Opaline Vault, repeatedly fighting CR10-15 super snakes, to turn a gram of gold into a few hundred kilos, don't sound like a good idea.

After all while Lindorms grow gold, the amount they grow, aren't necessarily that great compared to how strong they become, the legend tell it turned a small amount of gold into a treasure worthy of a king, but the king in question is a Scandinavian petty king, those kings weren't known for their great wealth, so the treasure probably only consisted of a few hundred kilos of gold.
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So we get endless XP and gold? Wounds great!
/s
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
So we get endless XP and gold? Wounds great!
/s
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No more than we get with any other creature, that can be used for reagents, if we had some way of endlessly producing Hydra's, then that would also be endless XP, and endless wealth, in the form of reagents harvested from Hydra corpses.

your whole complaint, hinges on the fact that it's cheap and easy to make Lindorms, I don't see why that would be the case.
 
tarrangar said:
No more than we get with any other creature, that can be used for reagents, if we had some way of endlessly producing Hydra's, then that would also be endless XP, and endless wealth, in the form of reagents harvested from Hydra corpses.

your whole complaint, hinges on the fact that it's cheap and easy to make Lindorms, I don't see why that would be the case.
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True. On second thought, while we could probably build an automated Lindorm-killing factory where they're born, contained, and then harvested, that would cost a fortune just to set up. All the walls would have to be Hardened Adamantine, for example... We could afford it, but we don't really need that kind of long-term investments just yet. There are better short-term uses for our money!
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
True. On second thought, while we could probably build an automated Lindorm-killing factory where they're born, contained, and then harvested, that would cost a fortune just to set up. All the walls would have to be Hardened Adamantine, for example... We could afford it, but we don't really need that kind of long-term investments just yet. There are better short-term uses for our money!
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And there's no particular hint Lindorms would be the best creature to farm in such a way, sure they produce gold, but gold isn't that useful, I'm sure there's other creatures, that would be more valuable to farm in such a way.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
@Goldfish, regarding Maelor and 8th-leveled spells : would you be fine with him only casting spells as a level 15 Sorcerer? That's still crazily powerful, and it keeps his build much neater (and avoids taking his focus away from his Warlock abilities).
I've just realised that Maelor has 5 levels left after Eltrich Theurge. At level 15 he will effectively be a Warlock 14/Sorcerer 11, and after that if he takes all 5 Inquisitorial Asset levels he'll be a Warlock 18/Sorcerer 15. Not bad! All he'd be losing is a single level 8 spell, but it keeps his build fairly clean (and gives him the Inquisitorial Asset capstone, constant Discern Lies and 5 virtual ranks in all untrained skills). Otherwise I guess he could only take the first 4 levels and then take an extra level of Mindbender or something, but honestly that feels rather ungainly.

EDIT : All builds that give him Sorcerer 16 end up gimping his Warlock progression, which is really what makes him special compared to the rest of our Sorcerers. It also allows him amazing army-killing potential, unusual combat strategies (suboptimal compared to rocket tag of course, this is 3.5, but still worth keeping!), and almost-Evil street cred.
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I guess it depends on if we want Maelor to be able to cast a 8th level spells or learn another Dark Invocation. While I almost always lean toward greater spellcasting, in this case it would probably more useful for Maelor to get the Dark Invocation.

I've been looking over your Inquisitorial Asset PRC to refresh my memory. Maelor is pretty far off from meeting the entry requirements. If we waste his 15th level feat on Alertness, we'll still have to retrain a minimum of four skill points, along with using those he gains at 15th level, in order to pick up the necessary Wisdom-linked skills which he currently lacks and advance Diplomacy enough to qualify. The skills aren't too much trouble, but getting Alertness hurts.

  • Skills: 5 ranks in any Cha-dependent skill, 3 ranks in any 3 other Cha-dependent skills, 3 ranks in any 2 Wis-dependent and 3 ranks in any 2 Int-dependent skills.
  • Feats: Alertness
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Instead of making the skill requirements so broad, why not focus them somewhat?
  • Skills: 8 ranks in any Charisma-dependent skill and 5 ranks in any 2 other Charisma-dependent skills OR 8 ranks in any Wisdom-dependent skill and 5 ranks in any 2 other Wisdom-dependent skills, plus 5 ranks in any 2 Intelligence-dependent skills.
  • Feats: Alertness, Skill Focus (one of your Charisma or Wisdom-dependent skills), or Jack of All Trades
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If there is going to be a feat tax, I would rather pay it for something like Skill Focus (Bluff), which Maelor is already heavily invested in, rather than Alertness, which isn't awful but is wasted on him.
 
Goldfish said:
I guess it depends on if we want Maelor to be able to cast a 8th level spells or learn another Dark Invocation. While I almost always lean toward greater spellcasting, in this case it would probably more useful for Maelor to get the Dark Invocation.

I've been looking over your Inquisitorial Asset PRC to refresh my memory. Maelor is pretty far off from meeting the entry requirements. If we waste his 15th level feat on Alertness, we'll still have to retrain a minimum of four skill points, along with using those he gains at 15th level, in order to pick up the necessary Wisdom-linked skills which he currently lacks and advance Diplomacy enough to qualify. The skills aren't too much trouble, but getting Alertness hurts.


Instead of making the skill requirements so broad, why not focus them somewhat?

If there is going to be a feat tax, I would rather pay it for something like Skill Focus (Bluff), which Maelor is already heavily invested in, rather than Alertness, which isn't awful but is wasted on him.
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I picked Alertness because it felt really thematic for that PrC... But he can always get Alertness for free just by using the "get a familiar" ritual Lya made.
The skill points are deliberately broad (that's the point of the PrC, and justifies the captsone) and retraining is not an issue here considering the number of skill points he had and the large increase in skill points to the PrC represents compared to the competition.
 
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