- Location
- Germany
I would be less inclined to climb on it if you would actually lead with posts like this instead of immediately screaming about communism.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Argentina
It should. Market value implies that. Otherwise it is just arbitrary.
First, this only happened once the old guy died, and because the steward tried to claim it. Second, you can own as much as you can, bu if you are not personally overseeing it, we just equate it to cash so that someone does oversee it.
In my city some supermarket owner bought an old gas station so that a competitor could expand there. It has been gather even more dirt since then, because there was never the intention of doing anything productive with it. If that is wasteful, imagine what could happen in a medieval society.
- Location
- Brazil
Essentially that, yeah. "Can't own more than you personally oversee" is a step above what the smiling fellow @TalonofAnathrax posted over there liked.
- Location
- Brazil
- Location
- France
Stalin loved centralized control of resources!
He just didn't accept that there was a right to own things.
This isn't even pedantry about details anymore: that's a complete misunderstanding of Stalinism.
Anyway, back on topic:
TNE, how about making your own vote that we could vote for?
I probably wouldn't, but it would make it easier for you to get people on your side.
And if we do rule in the lady's favor, I would like to hire the steward. He's definitely competent, and we have a lot of lands to administer now.
- Location
- Brazil
In this case it hasn't been gathering dust.
If it were, I'd be far more inclined to agree with giving it to someone else.
Here, he was just a manager doing a manager's job.
This gets even thornier when you account for long-distance investment.
- Location
- Germany
[] First Case: The lady has clear and legal right to the inheritance and thus the estate. However, in recognition of the steward cooperating with the Legion and treating his slaves well while effectively administrating the estate independently for decades, we would request the lady to give him the chance to buy the property from her at a reasonable price, the Imperial Administration being able to offer a estimate for the market value of the estate. If he is willing to do this, the Iron Bank will certainly be willing to offer him a loan at a reasonable rate and if not, you have many positions in the realm where a man of his skill would be greatly appreciated. This does not in any way or form impact the noble titles of the widow or grant such to the steward. This is merely a property transaction.
Made it optional, but at least setting precedent for breaking up inheritances. Also, we need inheritance taxes.
Better?
Working on the next now.
Made it optional, but at least setting precedent for breaking up inheritances. Also, we need inheritance taxes.
Better?
Working on the next now.
- Location
- Brazil
Pointless at this juncture.
Well, it's more about communism in general than anything...
- Location
- Germany
It was about tone. Yelling at me for seizing land and pretending there is no compensation is not a productive way to argue your case.
- Location
- Argentina
If the manager had resigned, it would have been gathering dust, that's the point. The manager went up and stood up for the task of managing this land, even if he could have said screw it, I will make the barest minimum of effort to earn my salary and let it get ruined.
- Location
- Brazil
- Location
- Brazil
And then the owners could and would have likely replaced him?
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Hmm. Any possible problem with the ruling will probably start with Westeros.
Some of the lower nobility like land Knights without any close relative might need stewards to administer the land while they are out serving in our army or something.
Some of the lower nobility like land Knights without any close relative might need stewards to administer the land while they are out serving in our army or something.
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- Location
- Brazil
And now that we've made it optional, it's actually a productive thing: we set precedent for heirs to easily liquidate unwanted assets and in an actually just manner: by selling at a fair price to those who have cared for it.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
By telling them straightup this only happen if all the interaction with their land they have, is appointing a Stewart, and telling him to send the profit to their city address.
Wouldn't that already be the case, when you sell a house, you don't typically also sell everything in it, you might include some of the furniture, as it's a pain to move or you want to buy new furniture, but it's not a standard part of a sale, the Stewart is only getting to buy the land and buildings, so while even if she could move it she wouldn't be allowed to pick up the mansion and place it elsewhere, short of taking buildings, she can take whatever she want from it, by that same token, the Stewart isn't obligated to buy all the artwork and such in the estate, if he don't want it, then it's still the lady's, though due to the forcible nature of the sale, it should probably be him who have to pay to have it moved.
I don't see having the rule be, you aren't entitled to owning more land than you can personally oversee a bad thing, we talked about things like this when we considered mass reincarnation, and we talked about the dangers of endlessly accumulating wealth, families being allowed to endlessly accumulate land is a subset of that, so putting this limit on it seems a good longterm plan.
If she was caring for another bit of property, then she has that to fall back on in terms of long term income, and if she couldn't care for both, then she would just have to appoint a new Stewart, which once again would make it just a cash cow for her family.
If she was forbidden by her father from managing it, then that mean he actively didn't want her in charge of it, since it's though him she has her claim to it, then him being against her managing it, worsens her claim on it significantly, and give the Stewart a better claim to be allowed to buy it, as the father clearly didn't want his daughter to be involved with it, and it's from his word her whole legal claim comes.
Fully agreed, we don't want rich people just leaning back and relaxing, while getting richer and richer from others hard work, it should take work to maintain and expand a fortune.
- Location
- Argentina
I feel like this is a matter of interpretation at this point, and that is something that should be seen IC. You come up as if the owners were still involved in the administration, which could happen, but we certainly don't know.
I thought that this whole thing happens because the owners were not paying attention to this and so the manageer had to cut up the slack.
- Location
- Germany
[X] First Case: The lady has clear and legal right to the inheritance and thus the estate. However, in recognition of the steward cooperating with the Legion and treating his slaves well while effectively administrating the estate independently for decades, we would request the lady to give him the chance to buy the property from her at a reasonable price, the Imperial Administration being able to offer a estimate for the market value of the estate. If he is willing to do this, the Iron Bank will certainly be willing to offer him a loan at a reasonable rate and if not, you have many positions in the realm where a man of his skill would be greatly appreciated. This does not in any way or form impact the noble titles of the widow or grant such to the steward. This is merely a property transaction.
[X] Second Case:
-[X] On magic: It is self-evident that Glyllo was not bespelled as he claims, thus he has no right to an annulment on that basis. The use of magic to improve the self is inherently no reprehensible act, not dissimilar form buying fancy clothing, using make-up or dying your hair. All of these things also change the way a person appears to others, yet no one would ask for an annulment for discovering a wrinkle or mole on his bride.
-[X] Ruling: While the bride had done nothing illegal and we see no hard evidence of malicious intent, the marriage was established with him not being fully aware of the circumstances. As Glyllo objects to it after learning of the truth, an annulment is granted.
-[X] For the future: The law will be amended so that before a marriage, both partners have to state all permanent or temporary magical effects they possess. Failure to do so is a valid reason for an annulment, though not in of itself a crime. It can be however used as evidence to prove malicious intent and fraud, if other evidence of such is present.
[X] Septon: "I take it then that you do not agree with the High Septon, for he has crowned the Ursuper in the name of your gods. I have heard from many Septons many different things. Some decry all magic as fiendish work, others even going so far as wishing to bring back the Faith Militant and seeking to put a High Septon on the Iron Throne to spreed the faith with the blade. Before I answer your question Septon, answer mine. What is it that you believe?"
[X] Second Case:
-[X] On magic: It is self-evident that Glyllo was not bespelled as he claims, thus he has no right to an annulment on that basis. The use of magic to improve the self is inherently no reprehensible act, not dissimilar form buying fancy clothing, using make-up or dying your hair. All of these things also change the way a person appears to others, yet no one would ask for an annulment for discovering a wrinkle or mole on his bride.
-[X] Ruling: While the bride had done nothing illegal and we see no hard evidence of malicious intent, the marriage was established with him not being fully aware of the circumstances. As Glyllo objects to it after learning of the truth, an annulment is granted.
-[X] For the future: The law will be amended so that before a marriage, both partners have to state all permanent or temporary magical effects they possess. Failure to do so is a valid reason for an annulment, though not in of itself a crime. It can be however used as evidence to prove malicious intent and fraud, if other evidence of such is present.
[X] Septon: "I take it then that you do not agree with the High Septon, for he has crowned the Ursuper in the name of your gods. I have heard from many Septons many different things. Some decry all magic as fiendish work, others even going so far as wishing to bring back the Faith Militant and seeking to put a High Septon on the Iron Throne to spreed the faith with the blade. Before I answer your question Septon, answer mine. What is it that you believe?"
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
This is inaccurate. The military is now a Crown institution, standing armies obviate the need to call on levies. Nobles who have property titles are expected to attempt to manage their land. To be certain they are to make sure it is managed, if not by themselves, then by not impeding the local Lord's council in their duties if they do not wish to govern their own fief.
This is leaned on far less in the East simply because the purview of lords is tied more to what they can buy in transactions between large land owners and those who own other forms of capital. There is some variance here, but in Westeros, at least in theory, borders are drawn, and while at present they are not clearly defined by the Crown and can shift, we are changing that since it is cleaner and will result in High Lords and the Crown having to intervene in inheritance disputes far less.
There is little that can be done to prevent nobles on either side of the Narrow Sea from carving up their own lands between their descendants, but if they want to decentralize their House for us it's a decent trade off for having to keep swords from being drawn by unruly heirs who think they should have gotten more.
And of course taxes are inevitable.
- Location
- Brazil
The problem isn't so much from a moral standpoint, as much as how it'd ruinously ostracize the majority of the most powerful slice of our population.
You essentially outlaw dynastic ownership, not only your nobles will rise up, your merchants will rise up.
And after you stomp that, the next generation, be those the disgruntled heirs or even the peasants you put in their place, will also rise up.
The forcing is the issue. Because it implies awful things to not only individual people, but entire castes of them.
What happens when people completely ignore this by rotating their managers every five years? Do we engange in an ever-escalating legalese battle?
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tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
You don't have to fully oversee it, but you have to at least be involved enough to occasionally visit for a status report, the old guy and the daughter didn't even do that.
Basically having a big business with lots of stores that you dictate the purpose of is okay under this, each store manager don't get to buy the store upon your death, but you better actually dictate that purpose, meaning you should be part of the upper management that set store policy, even if you never set foot in the store.
By that same token, even if you never set foot on your estate, if you are part of approving projects, and part of deciding what to grow and make and who to trade with, then you are fine, it's if you leave absolutely everything to a Stewart, and go on a 30 year long cruise, that you have problems.
- Location
- Brazil
See, that's fine, but it's also the ever-esclating legalese battle I mentioned.
Fundamentally, I agree that an Altered Carbon-like scenario, aka your average Cyberpunk distopia/Mathusalah problem, where a comparative handful of people own the everloving shit out of everything, is a highly unwanted scenario. Well, except for us who are playing as an immortal absolute monarch, that's great for us and essentially what we are doing by making a bunch of companies we own, but in general, we want for there to be actual ladders for people to climb, or they will feel like making their own out of chaos, and often bodies, a la Littlefinger.
Hell, the entire system of elected representatives bringing issues to their immedaite lords and being able to appeal is a huge ladder to make it like a chinese bureocracy in a specific way: you don't contest the Emperor's seat, because that's the height of preponderance.
What we want people to dream for is the equivalent of a Minister position, and they key here is that it is, fundamentally, a subservient position to us.
But the reality of it doesn't matter, what matters is the perception of it.
This is the same thing, under another angle.
Guys one thing to consider is that the optics are not as absolute as you have been making it out to be. A precedent here will not have magisters worried that you outlawed heredity both because the idea is so alien and because there are extenuating circumstances. You just conquered Tyrosh, this guys took the chance to make your job easier. If you had outright given him the land there would have been grumbling sure but little real unrest would have come of it.
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- Location
- florida
[X] First Case: The lady has clear and legal right to the inheritance and thus the estate. However, in recognition of the steward cooperating with the Legion and treating his slaves well while effectively administrating the estate independently for decades, we would request the lady to give him the chance to buy the property from her at a reasonable price, the Imperial Administration being able to offer a estimate for the market value of the estate. If he is willing to do this, the Iron Bank will certainly be willing to offer him a loan at a reasonable rate and if not, you have many positions in the realm where a man of his skill would be greatly appreciated. This does not in any way or form impact the noble titles of the widow or grant such to the steward. This is merely a property transaction.
[X] Second Case:
-[X] On magic: It is self-evident that Glyllo was not bespelled as he claims, thus he has no right to an annulment on that basis. The use of magic to improve the self is inherently no reprehensible act, not dissimilar form buying fancy clothing, using make-up or dying your hair. All of these things also change the way a person appears to others, yet no one would ask for an annulment for discovering a wrinkle or mole on his bride.
-[X] Ruling: While the bride had done nothing illegal and we see no hard evidence of malicious intent, the marriage was established with him not being fully aware of the circumstances. As Glyllo objects to it after learning of the truth, an annulment is granted.
-[X] For the future: The law will be amended so that before a marriage, both partners have to state all permanent or temporary magical effects they possess. Failure to do so is a valid reason for an annulment, though not in of itself a crime. It can be however used as evidence to prove malicious intent and fraud, if other evidence of such is present.
[X] Septon: "I take it then that you do not agree with the High Septon, for he has crowned the Ursuper in the name of your gods. I have heard from many Septons many different things. Some decry all magic as fiendish work, others even going so far as wishing to bring back the Faith Militant and seeking to put a High Septon on the Iron Throne to spreed the faith with the blade. Before I answer your question Septon, answer mine. What is it that you believe?"
Thank you @Azel .
The economy should be bust enough that taking liquid cash and investing it is as sound, or more sound, than just owning property.
Edit:
And just when we had an agreement to.
[X] Second Case:
-[X] On magic: It is self-evident that Glyllo was not bespelled as he claims, thus he has no right to an annulment on that basis. The use of magic to improve the self is inherently no reprehensible act, not dissimilar form buying fancy clothing, using make-up or dying your hair. All of these things also change the way a person appears to others, yet no one would ask for an annulment for discovering a wrinkle or mole on his bride.
-[X] Ruling: While the bride had done nothing illegal and we see no hard evidence of malicious intent, the marriage was established with him not being fully aware of the circumstances. As Glyllo objects to it after learning of the truth, an annulment is granted.
-[X] For the future: The law will be amended so that before a marriage, both partners have to state all permanent or temporary magical effects they possess. Failure to do so is a valid reason for an annulment, though not in of itself a crime. It can be however used as evidence to prove malicious intent and fraud, if other evidence of such is present.
[X] Septon: "I take it then that you do not agree with the High Septon, for he has crowned the Ursuper in the name of your gods. I have heard from many Septons many different things. Some decry all magic as fiendish work, others even going so far as wishing to bring back the Faith Militant and seeking to put a High Septon on the Iron Throne to spreed the faith with the blade. Before I answer your question Septon, answer mine. What is it that you believe?"
Thank you @Azel .
The economy should be bust enough that taking liquid cash and investing it is as sound, or more sound, than just owning property.
Edit:
And just when we had an agreement to.
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