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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Speaking of Dayne... I want their sword. I wish to study it or have Lya study it. I want it so bad. This is a "what is it made of and can it be replicated? thing for me.
 
DragonParadox said:
Perhaps it is not in her character to be a supplicant.

Anyway good night again guys. I certainly won't be making any systemic decisions when half-asleep.
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There's a difference between not being a supplicant and seemingly trying to convince the more powerful force with greater numbers to attack you, or, even if somehow she didn't at least twinge onto us possibly being a threat, just showing basic civility to you are trying to convince to let you claim something.

She did this weird thing where she acted in such a way as to provide plenty of justification to start a fight ... without actually starting a fight. Like, even ignoring all the stuff she did before we got here which was super weird, she tried to make us crash into the ocean which would have done nothing but be annoying and start a fight, but she didn't actually attack us.

Is she .... is she trying to make us throw the first punch for some reason? That's the only rational reasoning for her actions I can see, unless of course she is just acting irrationally. Cause, like, why else would you take actions that could easily lead to a fight to the death without actually just getting the jump on us and attacking first? We would have been by far in the right if we attacked her for trying to dispel our come over to her ship spell, if we were even slightly less interested in doing this peacefully she would have started a fight and would have been better off just attacking us, and she should know that.
 
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That "last attempt at negotiation" is purely mockery. We are taking the only thing they want from the table right while offering it.
 
Azel said:
That "last attempt at negotiation" is purely mockery. We are taking the only thing they want from the table right while offering it.
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Let's not forget about the other goodies.
DragonParadox said:
"You know I doubt they have magic to lift the whole ship," Theon interjected. "Even without the crown there's bound to be more treasure on that ship, even the enchanted kind. I mean, if I were running off to keep the oldest and most sacred things in the Reach from the hands of septons and 'sage kings,' I'd take as much gold and silver as I could find to do me well in my old age."
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They're getting none of that either.

I was willing to offer them the minor loot as a consolation prize before we sent them home, but definitely not now.
 
Actually, you know what? Fuck it.

[X] "Your words weave a marvelous tapestry, my lady. Would that we lived in such harmonious times." Viserys smiles thinly. "But the bare truth of the matter is this: you have entered my territory by stealth in an attempt to take what is mine. When discovered, you refused parley. When I restrained my wrath to avoid needless bloodshed, you attacked me. When that failed, you refused to answer as to your purpose, and even now you spin fanciful tales rather than bargain in good faith.

"You know the price for the crown, and have refused to pay it. The only thing preventing me from turning you to ash are my rapidly dwindling patience and the bread and salt we have shared. So have a care, my Lady, and forbear from tempting a Dragon's patience any further."

How about this, Azel?
 
spiritualatheist said:
Actually, you know what? Fuck it.

[X] "Your words weave a marvelous tapestry, my lady. Would that we lived in such harmonious times." Viserys smiles thinly. "But the bare truth of the matter is this: you have entered my territory by stealth in an attempt to take what is mine. When discovered, you refused parley. When I restrained my wrath to avoid needless bloodshed, you attacked me. When that failed, you refused to answer as to your purpose, and even now you spin fanciful tales rather than bargain in good faith.

"You know the price for the crown, and have refused to pay it. The only thing preventing me from turning you to ash are my rapidly dwindling patience and the bread and salt we have shared. So have a care, my Lady, and forbear from tempting a Dragon's patience any further."

How about this, Azel?
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I'll admit that this has its own charm.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Thing is, no payment besides fealty is going to be enough. Not sure how much you know about the background, but we are planning to invade Westeros pretty soon. We are not foolish enough to grant additional power to a fey Court in a land we plan to conquer without their ironclad allegiance.
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We could probably agree to a compromise, that they agreed to regard us as the king and ultimate authority of Westeros, but they were only required to be loyal to us, when not in the Feywild, in there the Fey king would still be the ultimate Authority.

If they would acknowledge us as the true king of the Prime Material, we could accept that their kingdom in the Feywild still didn't swear to us, they are just required to follow the law of the land when here, and the ones with the right to pass judgement when here would be us.
King Arthur said:
I'm aware. I meant in terms of the oath being the payment, as, after all, we seem to be willing to have the oath go a number of ways.

We obviously want them to swear to us, but I'm pretty sure I recall us stating that we are fine with her swearing to another lord, even one that isn't yet working for us, as long as the lord isn't a total fool, so that's also on the table. There's been no mention of it but I'm pretty sure we'd agree to give up the crown in exchange from the Reach/Tyrell swearing loyalty to us, which, I mean, they do want the crown as well.

Sure, the Reach/Tyrell's probably aren't willing to become our vassals solely for the Crown ... but it's also not like the Crown is the only reasoning for them to decide to become our vassals. There's a ton of other reasons for them to support us in the coming war, even the simple fact that we are real powerful, so the Crown might simply serve to act as one coin among many to buy their services.
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We aren't ready to do that, because if they get the Crown without being bound by heavy oaths, then they will be driving a parallel kingdom to ours in our lands, it's not acceptable that Fey deals become stronger bound metaphysically speaking, and the guy who you can appeal a deal to is a Fey, there need to be a mortal you can appeal to, because a Fey would deem things such as bargaining for a child, and getting a baby that don't age totally fair.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Speaking of Dayne... I want their sword. I wish to study it or have Lya study it. I want it so bad. This is a "what is it made of and can it be replicated? thing for me.
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I suspect half of what makes the sword significant is being wielded by a Dayne.

There is power to their bloodline, and it it said it can only be wielded by their best.
 
I'll also add my opinion to the no discord pile please. It always turns into some people having discord info that isn't displayed in the actual thread which causes even more of a disconnect between players.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Actually, you know what? Fuck it.

[X] "Your words weave a marvelous tapestry, my lady. Would that we lived in such harmonious times." Viserys smiles thinly. "But the bare truth of the matter is this: you have entered my territory by stealth in an attempt to take what is mine. When discovered, you refused parley. When I restrained my wrath to avoid needless bloodshed, you attacked me. When that failed, you refused to answer as to your purpose, and even now you spin fanciful tales rather than bargain in good faith.

"You know the price for the crown, and have refused to pay it. The only thing preventing me from turning you to ash are my rapidly dwindling patience and the bread and salt we have shared. So have a care, my Lady, and forbear from tempting a Dragon's patience any further."

How about this, Azel?
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If you're going to vote for this I'd suggest at least adding something about speaking to someone willing and able to make the deals she is claiming is beyond her.

This way we are still keeping the doors of diplomacy open, just not to her, so as to avoid actual conflict. Cause if we flat out refuse to ever give the crown over they will attempt to take it by force, as long as they think they stand a shot at negotiating for it they'll probably give it at least one more shot with someone better suited to such negotiations.
 
Duesal said:
I don't think anyone is seriously considering the Discord idea. That would slowly and surely kill thread discussion. We were more considering a mini-debate in the thread itself.
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This has a certain validity to it, and it is definitely why I have never encouraged nor suggested a dedicated off-site discussion venue.

But it is really infuriating to have cheap shots get launched at you and to have the character go "wow so social, much sick burn, nobody could have PREDICTED THIS" when the other side is basically a toddler not able to come to the big boy table and discuss things like adults.

This entire time we probably could have identified she was arguing in bad faith and then promptly beat her at her own game, since she can't construct strawmen nor arguments better than we could.

There is really no reason she should have beaten us, outside of a situation being essentially unbeatable due to outside circumstances. Which might have been the case, who knows? But it definitely came off as too one-sided an exchange.
 
Crake said:
I suspect half of what makes the sword significant is being wielded by a Dayne.

There is power to their bloodline, and it it said it can only be wielded by their best.
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Does it have to be wielded by their best or is it given to their best? If it's the former what would happen if some lost illegitimate Dayne child grew up to be better then everyone else in their generation. Would the sword just not work?
 
Dracikral said:
Does it have to be wielded by their best or is it given to their best? If it's the former what would happen if some lost illegitimate Dayne child grew up to be better then everyone else in their generation. Would the sword just not work?
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I am guessing the sword will recognize on its own who is best suited. I half suspect that the Daynes have a secret ceremony that is actually linked to ancient First Men rites linked to their bloodline, passed down through generations and maybe even somewhat andalized, probably some minor ritual which helps a potential bearer form a link with the sword if they meet certain criteria like Oathkeeper has for a prospective wielder.
 
Snowfire said:
I'll admit that this has its own charm.
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I'd like to think I am simply giving voice to the thread's own frustration. And the thing is, we are totally in the right here. She has been incredibly rude to a king, and more than that, to a Red Dragon. Any of our kin would have killed her by now.
King Arthur said:
If you're going to vote for this I'd suggest at least adding something about speaking to someone willing and able to make the deals she is claiming is beyond her.

This way we are still keeping the doors of diplomacy open, just not to her, so as to avoid actual conflict. Cause if we flat out refuse to ever give the crown over they will attempt to take it by force, as long as they think they stand a shot at negotiating for it they'll probably give it at least one more shot with someone better suited to such negotiations.
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Point. I'll change it.

[X] "Your words weave a marvelous tapestry, my lady. Would that we lived in such harmonious times." Viserys smiles thinly. "But the bare truth of the matter is this: you have entered my territory by stealth in an attempt to take what is mine. When discovered, you refused parley. When I restrained my wrath to avoid needless bloodshed, you attacked me. When that failed, you refused to answer as to your purpose, and even now you spin fanciful tales rather than bargain in good faith.
"You know the price for the crown, and say you cannot pay it. If some other envoy, endowed with both courtesy and the trust of your fair Court, wished to negotiate, I would gladly share bread and salt with them. But as matters stand, you have run out my tolerance for rudeness. The only thing preventing me from turning you to ash where you sit are the bread and salt we have shared. So have a care, my Lady, and forbear from tempting a Dragon's patience any further."
 
Dracikral said:
It's that attitude of hers that makes me think the fey have entirely forgotten how frightening True Dragons could be due to dealing with their cursed feral forms for millennia.
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It's almost a shame that she'll be dealing with the infinitely better King Viserys Targaryen rather than our True Red ancestors. This is the one time I actually wished the memory of the tyranny of dragons was fresh in someone's memory.
 
spiritualatheist said:
I'd like to think I am simply giving voice to the thread's own frustration. And the thing is, we are totally in the right here. She has been incredibly rude to a king, and more than that, to a Red Dragon. Any of our kin would have killed her by now.

Point. I'll change it.

[X] "Your words weave a marvelous tapestry, my lady. Would that we lived in such harmonious times." Viserys smiles thinly. "But the bare truth of the matter is this: you have entered my territory by stealth in an attempt to take what is mine. When discovered, you refused parley. When I restrained my wrath to avoid needless bloodshed, you attacked me. When that failed, you refused to answer as to your purpose, and even now you spin fanciful tales rather than bargain in good faith.
"You know the price for the crown, and say you cannot pay it. If some other envoy, endowed with both courtesy and the trust of your fair Court, wished to negotiate, I would gladly share bread and salt with them. But as matters stand, you have run out my tolerance for rudeness. The only thing preventing me from turning you to ash where you sit are the bread and salt we have shared. So have a care, my Lady, and forbear from tempting a Dragon's patience any further."
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I like it, but it's mostly because anyone else would have shown more courtesy, the fucking Myrish and Lyseni can sit at a table with us, people who's very fucking way of life, maybe even existence, is threatened by us, and trade barbs without being uncouth or risking making us lose face at the table.

She has been rude, discourteous and has actually gone so far as to slander us to our faces in front of people who technically owe their fealty to us by blood. This risks us losing face before an outside power in front of our potential bannermen, something that traditionally Westerosi Kings would not tolerate under any circumstances.

In the recent past, this is because of a precarious position that cannot afford weakness.

We have no weakness in us. It is about precedence.

If we open up negotiations YET AGAIN with this person in particular who has slighted us, it risks her taking yet more cheap shots. She has lost her chance. If she moves to make us lose face again, I would suggest she be marked down for death once guest right has run its course.
 
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