A Little Vice (Trans Magical Girl fic)
- Thread starter Shadell
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Sketches of Inessa, Avaritia & Invidia
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Alright, I've finally been lapped by this story as a consequence of a very, very busy October, so it's time I outta get gears to grindstones and dish out some commentary before the month ends; I was, after all, very much looking forward to knowing where the preceding cliffhanger was gonna go.
Hm, content warnings, never a good sign.
Homie I can see you're trying to read the room but you really Are Not reading the room.
Oh boy.
Avaritia I can see you're hanging onto that "Well we won't cause any permanent damage and it's all acceptable and chill" narrative with bleeding teeth and nails but you are. Actually completely incapable of navigating what Chiro needs to hear in this situation, because what Chiro needs to hear is "Okay then you don't have to fight your best friend anymore it's clearly messing you up" and you are literally contractually obligated not to say that.
BRO WHY DO YOU THINK "nearly choked to death by friend" IS "break that easily", COME ON.
Man I knew Chiro was gonna have a rough time with the whole 'Get useful emotional comfort for the near murder' situation but I didn't expect it to be. This actually useless.
LOOK AT THE STRING CHIRO, LOOK AT THE STRINGS!!!
There's something wrong with this person.
AMAZING how Avaritia sells making C a Beast as "You can't force someone to be all good and happy when they need to RAGE and admit their hurt instead of bottling it up to be nice!" and then the first time that's put to the test ey're trying to toxic positivity eir way out of it.
Wolf who lives and breathes emotional insecurity.
Hmmmm yeah we sure are starting to hit the limit of something with Chiro's Very Noticeable Disquiet about Avaritia when you put the last two quotes together.
AND ONCE AGAIN C IS JUST PRETENDING IT'S ALL CHILL TO ESCAPE ADMITTING THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS.
JUST A COMPLETE FUCKING CIRLCE.
I'm gonna be real Chiro. Avaritia is like directly obligated to deal with your anxieties as part of eir hiring policies.
Like ey suck at it so I can understand why you don't want to use that membership card bonus but like on a Moral Level ey did this to you as much as you did this to you.
Can't even run away from feeling bad about Inessa as a vampiric monster...
Oh those are not good combinations of words.
"Wow this evil nightmare world is so much more comfortable than my actual home! At least until I almost murdered my bestie!"
Chiro I expect you won't consider this but if you could consider. That "I want to take a longer break" is a very useful and justified statement?
I think the last line is an accurate summary of Lupin's character.
Also what the fuck do you mean this started at 8am you didn't even let Chiro sleep in like every depressed highschool senior on the weekend???
Codependency isn't enough of a word for what this is. Desperate to a completely relationship damaging extent is more like it.
YOU THINK???
There are. Some things to be said about how self-defeating "Well even though I hated every second of it at least this means that the only person who's ever always believed in me won't anymore!" is as a sentiment.
Every time Chiro disassociates from C to make something approaching good decisions it's like, well if this helps, great! But it's still filtered through hating yourself and this distorted idolatry of the girl you're kinning so. Always wondering whether the learned mechanisms for emotional honesty will outweigh the ego collapse Chiro's gonna have to outrun when the evil mode excuses dry out.
But also.
There's something increasingly disturbing to how Chiro keeps referring to "Wow it's so fucked up Inessa used to be a broken corpse walking and now we don't have that in common anymore" like I'm an Inessa Truther I know she has shit going on but seeing the brain spiral in Chiro's POV makes it that much more obvious that the same fertile ground for mental disease is being tilled by Chiro and Avaritia's "Okay but you're a GOOD and LUCKY person who has never felt like a sinner" misery poker like that isn't going to be her Joker Moment.
Chiro I'm sorry but ey kinda would. Avaritia's been doing that this whole story, this whole chapter prior, and likely this whole chapter following, because ey think you're moe.
Also Avaritia you REALLY should not have started the 'wow you're so cute and sexy now you're draped in sin" thing when Chiro's wearing Inessa's face like come on. Seriously. You're just making C's complexes worse and not even in the way you think is hot.
This is why I will always respect Temperance's efforts in the C-Bowl more btw, she knew how to rizz Chiro up before the doppelganger thing muddied the message.
Man this sucks.
YOU ARE THROWING MONSTERS AT PEOPLE. IN THE PLACE THEY LIVE. C LITERALLY DID NOT HAVE TO FIGHT YOU TO GET INVOLVED CONSTANTLY.
Wait.
...Okay rereading this makes it look less like "Avaritia sent a Resinner after the Saints while they were diddling in the woods" than my initial read did but that doesn't disabuse my previous point.
Chiro's saying some real raw shit to someone I do not feel is really interacting with it on the front Chiro really needs? But like that's basically ALV in its entirety by now, I should expect this spin cycle to continue.
FINALLY READING THE ROOM! AT LEAST A LITTLE!
The extremely weird tension about Chiro's bad boy wolf bifriend trying to get Chiro into eir religion and mostly failing.
It keeps being. Well will this help?
The words feel like they're kinda put together in a kinda beneficial order, and Chiro should figure out how to navigate these feelings, but it really does just stick to the premise "See there's this plant brain attached to your real brain and you gotta do what it wants even when it isn't actually what you want" like it's actually super difficult to untangle the semi-literal metaphor of "You have to acknowledge and unravel your negative emotions to guide them into safe responses" from "There's an evil seed that wants you to kill your friends in you."
Well, it's not as if we're gonna leave Lupin Noir's Wild Ride any time soon anyway, so let's just get to it.
Suffering from an extrovert again.
It's a little funny.
The Constant Battle: Is Avaritia right about the Lore, or Chiro's Bad Touch Instincts?
There's something really. Odd, if fascinating, about how Lupin takes to Collective Consciousness, when ey don't really connect or sympathize with people who aren't eirs, exclusively.
Or more like.
Like with the Everything about eir belief system, it's weird Lupin doesn't, or even try to, have friends outside eir team, because.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
What's the difference between a potential Resinner and potential Beast, to Lupin? Why is the latter category worth bonding with and supporting, when the former just amounts to fire and forget, like what makes them matter as people different amounts?
I'm not discounting Lupin just liking Chiro because ey vibe with Chiro personally, but like. Is it just about who ey can expect to hang out with regularly? Or who ey're allowed to hang out with?
Like I feel like I could be complicating an intended takeaway as simple as "Avaritia's central flaw is that ey're a pretty self-interested person who doesn't make the effort to consider eir impact on the world and people whose situations are as bad as eirs", but there's something so niggling about how inconsistently ey invest in each and every individual part of eir Deal.
That last line.
Every time I see it I have no idea if that'll make Chiro happier in the end or not.
Now I'm contemplating the ethics of psychic surveillance and voyeurism versus literally enhanced empathy and self-recognition through other and I have no idea what to do with that so I'm moving on.
Oh Avaritia literally doesn't. Do this.
...
Bro what.
Bro I don't think you're going to convince Chiro of your endgame the way you think you are.
Like.
What?
BRO WHY ARE YOU TELLING CHIRO TO DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'LL DO. PSYCHOLOGICALLY???
You know this could go places. Interesting places. Definitely places Lupin didn't plan, but what hasn't.
It's so weird when Chiro says this. Like there's always this outright statement of "Avaritia wouldn't take advantage of me, like ey already have, for my benefit" that falls short of like. This is hard to articulate, but I don't think there's ever been a reassessment on if this is a status quo Chiro should just, go along with?
Like. Hm. Wow this is Chiro's every "Okay I know it looks like this person is abusing me, but they really actually care" fantasy come true huh.
Chiro always talks about Lupin being like Inessa...Hm...
Can we put this bitch in the dunk tank? Please? Until ey examine any of the shit ey say with the single braincell rolling in there?
You got such wildly heroic impulses in you Chiro, like you need to quit your day job, leave the emo band.
A Little Vice is a comedy.
"Lupin has so little impulse control" Chiro says while being strangled away from jabbing finger blood in a random human being.
This is like. Hm.
I'd like to compare this to Wallace Brown's Sin Scan.
There's so much more nuance in Chiro's analysis this chapter, much more attention, and contemplation (which is, of course, the point), and more than that, there's a question of "Well, what does it help to feel this way?"
The way Chiro reflexively validates this lady, she's nice, and kind, and happy, and her envy is so small, what right does Chiro have to judge, it's like...How much of the rest of her do you see? Is it based in a fuller understanding of this person, or because your tendency to lean on a kinder impression of people when you put yourself down in comparison?
Everytime Avaritia says something about eir philosophy I'm just. Well in reality that's true but you're actively bringing about a different reality where people wanting in the wrong ways gets them turned into rampaging monsters.
"It's a reason why people who are all about virtue are wrong." Okay cool but you're not fighting the "We need to stop Sin from happening" people you're fighting the "We need to stop random monster attacks" people and it's making my brain nonsensically fax out this image:
"But with the ability to understand and untangle the roots of people's innermost dark emotions, you could just give them therapy? Actual therapy?"
"TURNING PEOPLE INTO BIZARRE KNICKKNACK MONSTERS IS THERAPY!"
Man. Fuck the Invidia Seed.
Also uh. Damn. You kinda created your no win scenario Avaritia.
Lupin thinking about how great it'll be when Chiro figures out the trick ey've been playing and embraces being a girl: Heyyyy, what did you learn from our self-discovery field trip?~
Chiro: Oh, just that as long as I realize I'll never actually be Invidia or Chiro or anything I deserve to love myself as, the Envy Seed will let me do whatever.
Lupin: .................................Oh.
Probably why Chiro will never say that!
THIS SHIT KEEPS GETTING CHIRO CLOSE BUT NOT CLOSE ENOUGH.
At every turn it's "Okay Chiro's gained Insight Points from this, now take Chiro out of there before the weekly point reduction puts us back to 0."
The actual fucking.
Step backwards from this, just from admitting the only thing C's ever wanted.
And thus, do all rivers flow back into Women Be Shopping.
Oh wow! That happened!
If Chiro is ever happy, remember a powerbomb is seconds imminent.
Oh hey.
Wanna have a good long think on that response Lupin?
"wondering which of those that had hurt Avaritia so was the one in eir mind now" Chiro, I think we've all read the Themes and Parallels enough to know exactly who's on eir mind.
Love the like. Redemption Arc Trojan Horse of this all.
Hm! Wonder what that's about.
I so, very wonder.
Count Fruitula...
So a fruit for a fruit then.
Hm. What the fuck is this.
What twisted as fuck Sin Power Up situation has Superbia foisted upon you Lupin?
GEE I WONDER IF INESSA WILL HAVE CONFIDENCE TO MIMIC WHEN YOU GET THERE BUDDY.
. Uh.
There are many things I want to say to this.
First and foremost.
TEMPERANCE WHY!? THEY STILL DON'T KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!
I can't believe this. I'm actually weeping.
So yeah, good fiction! If I survive everything I scheduled I'll be able to review the next chapter soon!
Hm, content warnings, never a good sign.
Homie I can see you're trying to read the room but you really Are Not reading the room.
Oh boy.
Avaritia I can see you're hanging onto that "Well we won't cause any permanent damage and it's all acceptable and chill" narrative with bleeding teeth and nails but you are. Actually completely incapable of navigating what Chiro needs to hear in this situation, because what Chiro needs to hear is "Okay then you don't have to fight your best friend anymore it's clearly messing you up" and you are literally contractually obligated not to say that.
BRO WHY DO YOU THINK "nearly choked to death by friend" IS "break that easily", COME ON.
Man I knew Chiro was gonna have a rough time with the whole 'Get useful emotional comfort for the near murder' situation but I didn't expect it to be. This actually useless.
LOOK AT THE STRING CHIRO, LOOK AT THE STRINGS!!!
There's something wrong with this person.
AMAZING how Avaritia sells making C a Beast as "You can't force someone to be all good and happy when they need to RAGE and admit their hurt instead of bottling it up to be nice!" and then the first time that's put to the test ey're trying to toxic positivity eir way out of it.
Wolf who lives and breathes emotional insecurity.
Hmmmm yeah we sure are starting to hit the limit of something with Chiro's Very Noticeable Disquiet about Avaritia when you put the last two quotes together.
AND ONCE AGAIN C IS JUST PRETENDING IT'S ALL CHILL TO ESCAPE ADMITTING THERE'S ANY PROBLEMS.
JUST A COMPLETE FUCKING CIRLCE.
I'm gonna be real Chiro. Avaritia is like directly obligated to deal with your anxieties as part of eir hiring policies.
Like ey suck at it so I can understand why you don't want to use that membership card bonus but like on a Moral Level ey did this to you as much as you did this to you.
Can't even run away from feeling bad about Inessa as a vampiric monster...
Oh those are not good combinations of words.
"Wow this evil nightmare world is so much more comfortable than my actual home! At least until I almost murdered my bestie!"
Chiro I expect you won't consider this but if you could consider. That "I want to take a longer break" is a very useful and justified statement?
I think the last line is an accurate summary of Lupin's character.
Also what the fuck do you mean this started at 8am you didn't even let Chiro sleep in like every depressed highschool senior on the weekend???
Codependency isn't enough of a word for what this is. Desperate to a completely relationship damaging extent is more like it.
YOU THINK???
There are. Some things to be said about how self-defeating "Well even though I hated every second of it at least this means that the only person who's ever always believed in me won't anymore!" is as a sentiment.
Every time Chiro disassociates from C to make something approaching good decisions it's like, well if this helps, great! But it's still filtered through hating yourself and this distorted idolatry of the girl you're kinning so. Always wondering whether the learned mechanisms for emotional honesty will outweigh the ego collapse Chiro's gonna have to outrun when the evil mode excuses dry out.
But also.
There's something increasingly disturbing to how Chiro keeps referring to "Wow it's so fucked up Inessa used to be a broken corpse walking and now we don't have that in common anymore" like I'm an Inessa Truther I know she has shit going on but seeing the brain spiral in Chiro's POV makes it that much more obvious that the same fertile ground for mental disease is being tilled by Chiro and Avaritia's "Okay but you're a GOOD and LUCKY person who has never felt like a sinner" misery poker like that isn't going to be her Joker Moment.
Chiro I'm sorry but ey kinda would. Avaritia's been doing that this whole story, this whole chapter prior, and likely this whole chapter following, because ey think you're moe.
Also Avaritia you REALLY should not have started the 'wow you're so cute and sexy now you're draped in sin" thing when Chiro's wearing Inessa's face like come on. Seriously. You're just making C's complexes worse and not even in the way you think is hot.
This is why I will always respect Temperance's efforts in the C-Bowl more btw, she knew how to rizz Chiro up before the doppelganger thing muddied the message.
Man this sucks.
YOU ARE THROWING MONSTERS AT PEOPLE. IN THE PLACE THEY LIVE. C LITERALLY DID NOT HAVE TO FIGHT YOU TO GET INVOLVED CONSTANTLY.
Wait.
...Okay rereading this makes it look less like "Avaritia sent a Resinner after the Saints while they were diddling in the woods" than my initial read did but that doesn't disabuse my previous point.
Chiro's saying some real raw shit to someone I do not feel is really interacting with it on the front Chiro really needs? But like that's basically ALV in its entirety by now, I should expect this spin cycle to continue.
FINALLY READING THE ROOM! AT LEAST A LITTLE!
The extremely weird tension about Chiro's bad boy wolf bifriend trying to get Chiro into eir religion and mostly failing.
It keeps being. Well will this help?
The words feel like they're kinda put together in a kinda beneficial order, and Chiro should figure out how to navigate these feelings, but it really does just stick to the premise "See there's this plant brain attached to your real brain and you gotta do what it wants even when it isn't actually what you want" like it's actually super difficult to untangle the semi-literal metaphor of "You have to acknowledge and unravel your negative emotions to guide them into safe responses" from "There's an evil seed that wants you to kill your friends in you."
Well, it's not as if we're gonna leave Lupin Noir's Wild Ride any time soon anyway, so let's just get to it.
Suffering from an extrovert again.
It's a little funny.
The Constant Battle: Is Avaritia right about the Lore, or Chiro's Bad Touch Instincts?
There's something really. Odd, if fascinating, about how Lupin takes to Collective Consciousness, when ey don't really connect or sympathize with people who aren't eirs, exclusively.
Or more like.
Like with the Everything about eir belief system, it's weird Lupin doesn't, or even try to, have friends outside eir team, because.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
What's the difference between a potential Resinner and potential Beast, to Lupin? Why is the latter category worth bonding with and supporting, when the former just amounts to fire and forget, like what makes them matter as people different amounts?
I'm not discounting Lupin just liking Chiro because ey vibe with Chiro personally, but like. Is it just about who ey can expect to hang out with regularly? Or who ey're allowed to hang out with?
Like I feel like I could be complicating an intended takeaway as simple as "Avaritia's central flaw is that ey're a pretty self-interested person who doesn't make the effort to consider eir impact on the world and people whose situations are as bad as eirs", but there's something so niggling about how inconsistently ey invest in each and every individual part of eir Deal.
That last line.
Every time I see it I have no idea if that'll make Chiro happier in the end or not.
Now I'm contemplating the ethics of psychic surveillance and voyeurism versus literally enhanced empathy and self-recognition through other and I have no idea what to do with that so I'm moving on.
Oh Avaritia literally doesn't. Do this.
...
Bro what.
Bro I don't think you're going to convince Chiro of your endgame the way you think you are.
Like.
What?
BRO WHY ARE YOU TELLING CHIRO TO DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'LL DO. PSYCHOLOGICALLY???
You know this could go places. Interesting places. Definitely places Lupin didn't plan, but what hasn't.
It's so weird when Chiro says this. Like there's always this outright statement of "Avaritia wouldn't take advantage of me, like ey already have, for my benefit" that falls short of like. This is hard to articulate, but I don't think there's ever been a reassessment on if this is a status quo Chiro should just, go along with?
Like. Hm. Wow this is Chiro's every "Okay I know it looks like this person is abusing me, but they really actually care" fantasy come true huh.
Chiro always talks about Lupin being like Inessa...Hm...
Can we put this bitch in the dunk tank? Please? Until ey examine any of the shit ey say with the single braincell rolling in there?
You got such wildly heroic impulses in you Chiro, like you need to quit your day job, leave the emo band.
A Little Vice is a comedy.
"Lupin has so little impulse control" Chiro says while being strangled away from jabbing finger blood in a random human being.
This is like. Hm.
I'd like to compare this to Wallace Brown's Sin Scan.
There's so much more nuance in Chiro's analysis this chapter, much more attention, and contemplation (which is, of course, the point), and more than that, there's a question of "Well, what does it help to feel this way?"
The way Chiro reflexively validates this lady, she's nice, and kind, and happy, and her envy is so small, what right does Chiro have to judge, it's like...How much of the rest of her do you see? Is it based in a fuller understanding of this person, or because your tendency to lean on a kinder impression of people when you put yourself down in comparison?
Everytime Avaritia says something about eir philosophy I'm just. Well in reality that's true but you're actively bringing about a different reality where people wanting in the wrong ways gets them turned into rampaging monsters.
"It's a reason why people who are all about virtue are wrong." Okay cool but you're not fighting the "We need to stop Sin from happening" people you're fighting the "We need to stop random monster attacks" people and it's making my brain nonsensically fax out this image:
"But with the ability to understand and untangle the roots of people's innermost dark emotions, you could just give them therapy? Actual therapy?"
"TURNING PEOPLE INTO BIZARRE KNICKKNACK MONSTERS IS THERAPY!"
Man. Fuck the Invidia Seed.
Also uh. Damn. You kinda created your no win scenario Avaritia.
Lupin thinking about how great it'll be when Chiro figures out the trick ey've been playing and embraces being a girl: Heyyyy, what did you learn from our self-discovery field trip?~
Chiro: Oh, just that as long as I realize I'll never actually be Invidia or Chiro or anything I deserve to love myself as, the Envy Seed will let me do whatever.
Lupin: .................................Oh.
Probably why Chiro will never say that!
THIS SHIT KEEPS GETTING CHIRO CLOSE BUT NOT CLOSE ENOUGH.
At every turn it's "Okay Chiro's gained Insight Points from this, now take Chiro out of there before the weekly point reduction puts us back to 0."
The actual fucking.
Step backwards from this, just from admitting the only thing C's ever wanted.
And thus, do all rivers flow back into Women Be Shopping.
Oh wow! That happened!
If Chiro is ever happy, remember a powerbomb is seconds imminent.
Oh hey.
Wanna have a good long think on that response Lupin?
"wondering which of those that had hurt Avaritia so was the one in eir mind now" Chiro, I think we've all read the Themes and Parallels enough to know exactly who's on eir mind.
Love the like. Redemption Arc Trojan Horse of this all.
Hm! Wonder what that's about.
I so, very wonder.
Count Fruitula...
So a fruit for a fruit then.
Hm. What the fuck is this.
What twisted as fuck Sin Power Up situation has Superbia foisted upon you Lupin?
GEE I WONDER IF INESSA WILL HAVE CONFIDENCE TO MIMIC WHEN YOU GET THERE BUDDY.
. Uh.
There are many things I want to say to this.
First and foremost.
TEMPERANCE WHY!? THEY STILL DON'T KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!
I can't believe this. I'm actually weeping.
So yeah, good fiction! If I survive everything I scheduled I'll be able to review the next chapter soon!
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, what's ey supposed to do? Let the cake go stale?
Yeah...that's, um, harder to justify.
Yeah...her only source of emotional support is Avaritia, who doesn't really want to kill the Saints but can't articulate why that's a bad idea without contradicting her reasons for going along with Superbia's plan.
Well, there's also Superbia, but...that's the mental health equivalent of jumping in front of a truck.
Invidia's a bat, but I don't think she has any vampiric powers. (And she's too nice to use them if she did.)
Yeah...Avaritia has probably been desperate for a bestie ever since Gula left, and for all eir sin brainworms, they know Superbia is a bad choice.
God, Lupin. If you're gonna be like that just ask the normal human Inessa out. Everyone can see she's into you. That won't cause dramatic soap opera nonsense when one or both of your secret identities are revealed.
(If this was a real anime, there would be so many Lupin/Inessa slash fics.)
If there's anyone who'd react poorly to this line of argument, you'd expect the guy who was damseled every week for a cour and a half would.
("Guy" can be a gender-neutral term.)
The writing's been on the wall for Avaritia's justifications. That won't stop em from doing their best to justify everything ey've done for the past two cour, though!
Until Avaritia explains more about what they think about Resinners, "Avaritia cares more about people ey can hang out with than people ey won't" seems like a decent theory to work from.
"Hey, it's basically what I did, and I turned out fine!"
"..."
"What?"
...
I've got a funny idea for an edit if anyone can find the original post and not, like, three character PFPs with the individual lines next to them.
Shame. Something like that might get Avaritia to think twice about whether letting someone's sin consume them is a universally positive experience.
It was pretty much inevitable. Avaritia saw someone whose repressed desires were making her miserable, did the thing that was supposed to make people feel better by un-repressing her desire, and that made her even more miserable. Ey either need to re-examine eir priorities and beliefs and end up unable to accept Superbia's plans and worldview, or dive even deeper into the behavior patterns that make em miserable out of a sunk cost fallacy and/or fear of change.
And, I mean...someone has to pick the first option eventually, right?
Ooh, good catch!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Could you explain which post?
Dream Invidia copied the Saints' powers by biting them.
You know, Rice's catch of Avaritia being possibly troubled by Inessa's state. It might be helping crack eir view soon. We've seen that Superbia's plan is troubling em. And trying to turn the city into a nightmare sounds like a recipe for a lot of damage to it. We've already seen how close to disaster the fights are, and Chiro commented on the damage to the salon. I don't think anyone's gonna die, since this sounds like the kind of thing that'd mentally ruin Avaritia, and Chiro if she feels responsible. But I imagine it's gonna cost a lot to the city.
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- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The "Quit your job," "why," "Join my emo band" one.
I'd forgotten about that.
Invidia's too nice to consciously use her vampiric powers. Doing so while unconscious is a whole separate issue.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
To be fair to the "why are you turning people into monsters instead of giving them therapy" thing, getting people to sit still and accept therapy, especially from an unaccredited weirdo they don't know, is easier said than done, and also takes a lot of time.
Obviously turning people into monsters as a way of "getting them in touch with their feelings" or whatever is very very wrong, but if you somehow lobotomize the awareness of that fact out of the process... well, having had the stress of dealing with someone who really, really should have gone into therapy and instead just poured more and more concrete over their neuroses and insisted other people were the problem more than once in my life, I can kind of sympathize in a perverse way.
Obviously turning people into monsters as a way of "getting them in touch with their feelings" or whatever is very very wrong, but if you somehow lobotomize the awareness of that fact out of the process... well, having had the stress of dealing with someone who really, really should have gone into therapy and instead just poured more and more concrete over their neuroses and insisted other people were the problem more than once in my life, I can kind of sympathize in a perverse way.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I mean, people do it on twitter constantly.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem isn't finding *A* person who will do this.
The problem is getting actual specific individuals right in front of you to do this.
The people who do this on Twitter are self-selecting for predisposition to do it.
Alright, time to clear my overdue debts and finish catching up with ALV, I do so rarely get the sheer immediacy on what happens next as I am now, admittedly.
OH HEY TEMPERANCE.
Jeez. That's a really fast answer to "WHY TEMPERANCE WHY" ain't it.
Chiro's "People will Find Me Out" complex was in no way helped by Temperance Atwater actually doing that.
Oh damn.
Okay alright I'm ready to see where this conversation is going. We've kinda already had the answer spoiled by the preview but I very much like that it has to be a discussion this time around!
OH WOW.
There's a lotta things going on here but the Lupin Kidney Strike.
I think Temperance is justified in literally waterboarding you right now, so the immediate mental whining is funny.
Temperance.
The way you hustle.
Also Chiro I'm sorry to say but you Pushed The Lupin Button so you have to deal with Temperance interrogating you about her ex.
Honestly though I am curious about. Like what would Temperance even have to say about the Inessa Situation between her and Chiro? This meeting even happening is kinda an unexpected swerve (though, logically mostly because I hadn't expected us to come back to school before certain other things were Resolved first), and it'd say what Temperance's concern for the other Saints actually is since that's been. A bit of a cipher?
"with something that could almost be mistaken for indulgence" that little bit of Gula that always remains Echoing.
Chiro you'd leak state secrets if someone pressed a centimeter into your noggin at this point, this is why no one tells you anything.
The question.
The oh-so-very important question.
ALWAYS THE UNEXPECTED.
But Temperance's ability to flip the board aside, you really are not considering how Temperance is clearly making the decision to actually answer your question, huh Chiro?
Always this hot shit when there's no way for someone to hear it. It's funny.
EVERY TIME CHIRO SAYS SOMETHING THAT'S BLATANTLY TEMPERANCE'S EXPERIENCE THERE'S NO RECOGNITION OF THAT. RUDE TO HER.
. Oh?
Wait this is.
This is Paradigm Shifting.
...This is an obvious statement of Avaritia's character, but it's also. Perhaps the most stark expression of how little Avaritia believes in what ey're saying.
Ey. Ey told Temperance to take a less fitting Sin.
...I wonder how else Avaritia has "betrayed" Temperance, in this way and not.
When Chiro says things like this, you could almost believe Chiro isn't talking about a perfect mirror image.
I can't fucking believe you. You're confusing your own plot arc for the whole damn planet.
Chiro's naked fear of Temperance is rarely the correct emotion, but this one time. Maybe. Especially if you KEEP SHUTTING UP ABOUT THE THINGS YOU SHOULD TALK ABOUT COME ON.
Like. Chiro. You kinda literally threatened Temperance with what Superbia would do to em, this is like the one and only human being you might be capable of having a straightforward conversation on how gross and awful he is to you all.
The way the Seed hurts Chiro for realizing there's something genuine that Temperance doesn't have more of with Lupin...Man fuck this.
You say this shit. Like Avaritia isn't 100% more cult endorser at this Exact. Exact moment.
Avaritia I'm going to be real you backed off from the play you took with Temperance on perhaps the worst person you possibly could have.
Like that's what gets me, apparently the least damaged Beast in the world is the one who was, deliberately given the wrong Seed. And what she did with that less sustained addiction was leave. And like. It's not as if Avaritia made the decision on this premise, because ey are nothing if not flying off the seat of eir pants on impulse, but goddamn you are working cross purpose actually choosing the fitting Seed for Chiro Avaritia.
...Actually, hang on.
The thread has had conversations on how Chiro would actually a lot fit Sloth, especially since C's major malfunction was always about refusing to embrace the effort to change on personal initiative as much as desperate jealousy towards the Saints for shining better?
And. That would avoid a lot of the stalling points in Chiro's Envy Alignment from crashing into the hesitance towards externalized malice over internal harm?
...........................Hm.
Oh hey.
Temperance doesn't say a lot, but what she does speaks volumes.
Like there's a line in the sand here. It is a very direct statement on what is Not Allowed.
Man I don't say this enough. But I really wish Shining Virtue Angelic Heart was a real show so I could see what the rest of the cast is cooking. Like this story is too well committed to "This is the fic of a hypothetical anime about the missing scenes of a side character turned secondary villain" as a premise not to have me going "Okay but where can I watch the original property, I want to know the rest of the plot. Please."
Like it's the. Integrity to the narrative framing. That we literally have no idea what's going on outside Chiro's askew, underinformed POV, but also there's undeniable interiority to every other character that's a bunch of little jiggling keys trying to lure us around to what's Going On There.
We have so much depth on Chiro's relationship with every major character that it makes it that much more stark that we don't have nearly as much on the interpersonal dimensions of the rest of the cast outside our MC, besides like, Temperance+Lupin being more and more drip fed, but then we get this one line from Temperance, who has been obviously fond and invested in spite of her rigidness towards Chiro for being the egg she wants to give more kindness than she got (and also maybe make out) for this entire story, that's just "Hey if you fuck with her I'll kill you" for Inessa's sake.
It says a MILLION things that go unspoken because this is a story that's all about being the direct inversion of an ensemble cast magical girl anime in central perspective.
Chiro I know being held accountable for you sins is like your kink but maybe. Maybe less.
Just a deeply unfair character, I think the main reason I have all this criticism to say every time I'm here is that this is the most well written villain protagonist I've ever had to stare into the unobstructed brain wrinkles of for the entire duration of the story.
Chiroptera: We have nothing to do but return in silence.
Temperance: Hey.
Chiroptera: God damn it.
Okay this is the first time ever we've heard about the condition of a Resinner post-Resinning (and from a former Beast...) and I'm like.
What does this DO to people, is it stress relief if you get it beaten out of you? Is it stress relief even if you don't get it beaten out of you??? Like what happens to Resinners if the Saints don't kick their ass I can never figure out how it benefits anyone but Superbia's wackass endgame without that context.
Chiro you just live to take Ls.
Physically...
A Little Vice is a comedy.
Chiro reaaaaally likes to present it as "Inessa is just thinking about thatdeadname boy when she's convinced of my better side" as a way to ignore feeling really really bad about everything, which is some, drastically advanced tech on the level of trans denial we're looking at here.
You keep turning back the clock when that's not really what you want, huh Chiro...
Oh boy! It's Toyota Superbia time!
Literally if you could make such an excellent and well reasoned decision that would be great.
I want to laugh very badly but I do not expect that emotion to remain in supply.
Every time. Every time I am just. How. How could you create the exact same parental situation Chiro barely managed to leave Avaritia. How.
Mr. Noir accurately displaying the power in choosing exactly who and what anyone's names get to be.
You know there's a lot I can get into with this, but I think I'll leave it at. Mr. Noir teaching Chiro how to hate really is his greatest service in this story.
Really good writing. Actually immaculate ambience for Pride As A Powerset. Makes me feel perfectly obliged to killing this guy with a rock.
Oh boy you know Avaritia's "We can totally scam LGBT+ rights from my uncle" trick was on thin ice but if there was ever a reminder of how much...
Hey Chiro are you. Sure about keeping the whole "Lupin likes Mr. Noir despite everything" detail from Temperance now?
You know I am. Not even sure this would do anything? Since, as Noir himself says, it's mostly the case the Saints just react to shit instead of trying to make ground in the Abyssal Forest (I gotta wonder if the rescue mission made him just a little less secure in that, though), and that's especially the case now that Inessa is tapped out.
But then, there's a more obvious angle than "Noir is actually really worried about the Saints getting in the way", and that's a reminder of how He's The Boss, and Avaritia doesn't get to direct eir little underling as ey please if ey aren't doing what ey aught.
Of course, given the next episode preview only mentioned Inessa and Ida together with Chiro, that might mean this powerplay ends up less than useless with the piece on the board left in play...
Yeah this business gets a lot more complicated when you need to plan an attack and not just fire off willy nilly without a care for your bullets.
One day. One day you will run out of excuses and face the consequences of your actions (admitting your taste).
IDA POWER.
...Ida maybe less power.
Honestly given Ida is the Least emotionally perceptive Saint, it's incredible that she's landed on "Okay the problem is No C so we should get the closest thing to C in the room to fic this" as a solution and she's enacting it using. C.
Mad Hustling for that new Saint, girl.
There is something. Deeply wrong with this human being.
Girl who has created the most Internalized Gender/Emotion Panopticon for no reason.
Temperance I am SO SORRY this dumbass is making you live like this.
But also you're clearly using this as cover for sneakily hunting down Lupin while Chiro completely forgets that this plan is meant to distract ALL the Saints independent of this blatant ruse cruise to have a spa day with the besties.
Oh wow I've never seen such a plain "X said" convey how dead inside someone was.
Chiro talking about C's life with barely any alternations really does get that "Was this girl raised in a cult?" vibe.
Chiro.
Chiro you're not trying hard at that "I'm not actually concerned about Inessa's well-being or driven to do right by her outside this cover up" pretense.
Inessa is just...God. What a travesty of a romance fiend.
Actually could not pause to pare this down.
It is.
Absolutely incredible.
SHE'S HAD TWO IN HIGHSCHOOL.
SHE'S SO PROUD OF THAT.
UNTIL.
THE REASON WHY IT'S "HAD" COMES BACK AROUND.
Inessa and Chiro's absolute tag team destruction special...
Like it cannot be understated though.
These bitches are talking a lotta trash for people who are completely failing to land so much as a crumb of ass.
WHO WOULD WIN: Lesbians who can't even confess long enough to be rejected, or straight girl who lands dates long enough to be dumped for her character flaws?
Yeah you kinda learn how to live with the fact stores are just stores honey.
This is karma for your sick owns on Lupin's mall obsession.
Bros before laughing at your homegirl's inability to land hoes.
Man.
Man.
THAT'S HER SISTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!
Now I am going to move on from this agony and violence and pain, as if I will not slam right back into it in 2.5 paragraphs.
You can see that what Ida has runs in the family.
YOU KEEP TRYING TO AVOID HOW PERSONALLY SAD YOU ARE ABOUT THIS CHIRO.
Hm! Well that's a peaceful outing dead in the ground!
Ough.
Chiro...You're trying to be you...
Epic highs and lows of trying to make a hairdo work when your bitchass plant parasite is being a dickbag.
Hm this is some complicated navigation of contesting Invidia that is in no way going well.
Kelly and her incredibly normal time of being mildly peeved a woman is cooler than her about to go. Very bad.
OH WOW JUST INSTANT TURBO MURDER WE'RE DOING THIS NOW.
Literally fuck the Seeds. All my homies hate the Seeds.
Cannot be understated that you are in the wrong career for being invested in those concerns Chiro!
Oh.
And Chiro doesn't knoooooooooow.
You are NOT handling this double life anymore than Inessa was Chiro.
Ugh. This is so messy.
Chiro's going "My Envy tells me you have to be happy to be the person I'm jealous of" and you can't even tell if any of that is pretending.
Bro. This hurts really bad.
She just. Can't even imagine C felt like less than the world to her.
You can't even make excuses about why you're doing this anymore, huh?
THIS IS SO COMPLETELY BONKERS BECAUSE NEITHER OF THEM. NEITHER OF THEM GET IT.
Inessa knows she doesn't get it but not how much so, and Chiro. Chiro is completely deluded on a whole other level.
...Chiro is using "her"...When the whole conversation prior referred to "them"...
Chiro interrupting that line to say 'it's not right, she had tried to', because what this is really about is. Allowing the unfairness. Being able to say it at all.
.
You know I'm remembering a scene from Across the Spider-Verse.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhwhcCq-IlA
A different kind of familial tension, but. The same...Same complicated love through strained independence and disguise.
Inessa does mean the world to me.
Chiro also means the world to me.
Good job signing the writ of your side of this war's destruction buddy!
...Does Chiro taking the initiative to refer to C by She/Her mean I can FINALLY use pronouns for her!?
MAN I HAVE BEEN WAITING ALL STORY, you would not BELIEVE how difficult it is to committing to not using any kind of pronouns besides "you" for the principle character of a webnovel I have written. 22 posts and 29-ish k words about.
Why did I do that? Well I just didn't want to use pronouns Chiro didn't agree to have used, and then it spiraled from there.
But that era has ended, thank god.
IT'S TIME FOR THAT KIRBY'S RETURN TO DREAMLAND SPECIAL!
I am sooooo ready for the final boss ass shit we're in for with a title this thematic and punchy.
Looking forward to being here next time Shadell!
OH HEY TEMPERANCE.
Jeez. That's a really fast answer to "WHY TEMPERANCE WHY" ain't it.
Chiro's "People will Find Me Out" complex was in no way helped by Temperance Atwater actually doing that.
Oh damn.
Okay alright I'm ready to see where this conversation is going. We've kinda already had the answer spoiled by the preview but I very much like that it has to be a discussion this time around!
OH WOW.
There's a lotta things going on here but the Lupin Kidney Strike.
I think Temperance is justified in literally waterboarding you right now, so the immediate mental whining is funny.
Temperance.
The way you hustle.
Also Chiro I'm sorry to say but you Pushed The Lupin Button so you have to deal with Temperance interrogating you about her ex.
Honestly though I am curious about. Like what would Temperance even have to say about the Inessa Situation between her and Chiro? This meeting even happening is kinda an unexpected swerve (though, logically mostly because I hadn't expected us to come back to school before certain other things were Resolved first), and it'd say what Temperance's concern for the other Saints actually is since that's been. A bit of a cipher?
"with something that could almost be mistaken for indulgence" that little bit of Gula that always remains Echoing.
Chiro you'd leak state secrets if someone pressed a centimeter into your noggin at this point, this is why no one tells you anything.
The question.
The oh-so-very important question.
ALWAYS THE UNEXPECTED.
But Temperance's ability to flip the board aside, you really are not considering how Temperance is clearly making the decision to actually answer your question, huh Chiro?
Always this hot shit when there's no way for someone to hear it. It's funny.
EVERY TIME CHIRO SAYS SOMETHING THAT'S BLATANTLY TEMPERANCE'S EXPERIENCE THERE'S NO RECOGNITION OF THAT. RUDE TO HER.
. Oh?
Wait this is.
This is Paradigm Shifting.
...This is an obvious statement of Avaritia's character, but it's also. Perhaps the most stark expression of how little Avaritia believes in what ey're saying.
Ey. Ey told Temperance to take a less fitting Sin.
...I wonder how else Avaritia has "betrayed" Temperance, in this way and not.
When Chiro says things like this, you could almost believe Chiro isn't talking about a perfect mirror image.
I can't fucking believe you. You're confusing your own plot arc for the whole damn planet.
Chiro's naked fear of Temperance is rarely the correct emotion, but this one time. Maybe. Especially if you KEEP SHUTTING UP ABOUT THE THINGS YOU SHOULD TALK ABOUT COME ON.
Like. Chiro. You kinda literally threatened Temperance with what Superbia would do to em, this is like the one and only human being you might be capable of having a straightforward conversation on how gross and awful he is to you all.
The way the Seed hurts Chiro for realizing there's something genuine that Temperance doesn't have more of with Lupin...Man fuck this.
You say this shit. Like Avaritia isn't 100% more cult endorser at this Exact. Exact moment.
Avaritia I'm going to be real you backed off from the play you took with Temperance on perhaps the worst person you possibly could have.
Like that's what gets me, apparently the least damaged Beast in the world is the one who was, deliberately given the wrong Seed. And what she did with that less sustained addiction was leave. And like. It's not as if Avaritia made the decision on this premise, because ey are nothing if not flying off the seat of eir pants on impulse, but goddamn you are working cross purpose actually choosing the fitting Seed for Chiro Avaritia.
...Actually, hang on.
The thread has had conversations on how Chiro would actually a lot fit Sloth, especially since C's major malfunction was always about refusing to embrace the effort to change on personal initiative as much as desperate jealousy towards the Saints for shining better?
And. That would avoid a lot of the stalling points in Chiro's Envy Alignment from crashing into the hesitance towards externalized malice over internal harm?
...........................Hm.
Oh hey.
Temperance doesn't say a lot, but what she does speaks volumes.
Like there's a line in the sand here. It is a very direct statement on what is Not Allowed.
Man I don't say this enough. But I really wish Shining Virtue Angelic Heart was a real show so I could see what the rest of the cast is cooking. Like this story is too well committed to "This is the fic of a hypothetical anime about the missing scenes of a side character turned secondary villain" as a premise not to have me going "Okay but where can I watch the original property, I want to know the rest of the plot. Please."
Like it's the. Integrity to the narrative framing. That we literally have no idea what's going on outside Chiro's askew, underinformed POV, but also there's undeniable interiority to every other character that's a bunch of little jiggling keys trying to lure us around to what's Going On There.
We have so much depth on Chiro's relationship with every major character that it makes it that much more stark that we don't have nearly as much on the interpersonal dimensions of the rest of the cast outside our MC, besides like, Temperance+Lupin being more and more drip fed, but then we get this one line from Temperance, who has been obviously fond and invested in spite of her rigidness towards Chiro for being the egg she wants to give more kindness than she got (and also maybe make out) for this entire story, that's just "Hey if you fuck with her I'll kill you" for Inessa's sake.
It says a MILLION things that go unspoken because this is a story that's all about being the direct inversion of an ensemble cast magical girl anime in central perspective.
Chiro I know being held accountable for you sins is like your kink but maybe. Maybe less.
Just a deeply unfair character, I think the main reason I have all this criticism to say every time I'm here is that this is the most well written villain protagonist I've ever had to stare into the unobstructed brain wrinkles of for the entire duration of the story.
Chiroptera: We have nothing to do but return in silence.
Temperance: Hey.
Chiroptera: God damn it.
Okay this is the first time ever we've heard about the condition of a Resinner post-Resinning (and from a former Beast...) and I'm like.
What does this DO to people, is it stress relief if you get it beaten out of you? Is it stress relief even if you don't get it beaten out of you??? Like what happens to Resinners if the Saints don't kick their ass I can never figure out how it benefits anyone but Superbia's wackass endgame without that context.
Chiro you just live to take Ls.
Physically...
A Little Vice is a comedy.
Chiro reaaaaally likes to present it as "Inessa is just thinking about that
You keep turning back the clock when that's not really what you want, huh Chiro...
Oh boy! It's Toyota Superbia time!
Literally if you could make such an excellent and well reasoned decision that would be great.
I want to laugh very badly but I do not expect that emotion to remain in supply.
Every time. Every time I am just. How. How could you create the exact same parental situation Chiro barely managed to leave Avaritia. How.
Mr. Noir accurately displaying the power in choosing exactly who and what anyone's names get to be.
You know there's a lot I can get into with this, but I think I'll leave it at. Mr. Noir teaching Chiro how to hate really is his greatest service in this story.
Really good writing. Actually immaculate ambience for Pride As A Powerset. Makes me feel perfectly obliged to killing this guy with a rock.
Oh boy you know Avaritia's "We can totally scam LGBT+ rights from my uncle" trick was on thin ice but if there was ever a reminder of how much...
Hey Chiro are you. Sure about keeping the whole "Lupin likes Mr. Noir despite everything" detail from Temperance now?
You know I am. Not even sure this would do anything? Since, as Noir himself says, it's mostly the case the Saints just react to shit instead of trying to make ground in the Abyssal Forest (I gotta wonder if the rescue mission made him just a little less secure in that, though), and that's especially the case now that Inessa is tapped out.
But then, there's a more obvious angle than "Noir is actually really worried about the Saints getting in the way", and that's a reminder of how He's The Boss, and Avaritia doesn't get to direct eir little underling as ey please if ey aren't doing what ey aught.
Of course, given the next episode preview only mentioned Inessa and Ida together with Chiro, that might mean this powerplay ends up less than useless with the piece on the board left in play...
Yeah this business gets a lot more complicated when you need to plan an attack and not just fire off willy nilly without a care for your bullets.
One day. One day you will run out of excuses and face the consequences of your actions (admitting your taste).
IDA POWER.
...Ida maybe less power.
Honestly given Ida is the Least emotionally perceptive Saint, it's incredible that she's landed on "Okay the problem is No C so we should get the closest thing to C in the room to fic this" as a solution and she's enacting it using. C.
Mad Hustling for that new Saint, girl.
There is something. Deeply wrong with this human being.
Girl who has created the most Internalized Gender/Emotion Panopticon for no reason.
Temperance I am SO SORRY this dumbass is making you live like this.
But also you're clearly using this as cover for sneakily hunting down Lupin while Chiro completely forgets that this plan is meant to distract ALL the Saints independent of this blatant ruse cruise to have a spa day with the besties.
Oh wow I've never seen such a plain "X said" convey how dead inside someone was.
Chiro talking about C's life with barely any alternations really does get that "Was this girl raised in a cult?" vibe.
Chiro.
Chiro you're not trying hard at that "I'm not actually concerned about Inessa's well-being or driven to do right by her outside this cover up" pretense.
Inessa is just...God. What a travesty of a romance fiend.
Actually could not pause to pare this down.
It is.
Absolutely incredible.
SHE'S HAD TWO IN HIGHSCHOOL.
SHE'S SO PROUD OF THAT.
UNTIL.
THE REASON WHY IT'S "HAD" COMES BACK AROUND.
Inessa and Chiro's absolute tag team destruction special...
Like it cannot be understated though.
These bitches are talking a lotta trash for people who are completely failing to land so much as a crumb of ass.
WHO WOULD WIN: Lesbians who can't even confess long enough to be rejected, or straight girl who lands dates long enough to be dumped for her character flaws?
Yeah you kinda learn how to live with the fact stores are just stores honey.
This is karma for your sick owns on Lupin's mall obsession.
Bros before laughing at your homegirl's inability to land hoes.
Man.
Man.
THAT'S HER SISTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!
Now I am going to move on from this agony and violence and pain, as if I will not slam right back into it in 2.5 paragraphs.
You can see that what Ida has runs in the family.
YOU KEEP TRYING TO AVOID HOW PERSONALLY SAD YOU ARE ABOUT THIS CHIRO.
Hm! Well that's a peaceful outing dead in the ground!
Ough.
Chiro...You're trying to be you...
Epic highs and lows of trying to make a hairdo work when your bitchass plant parasite is being a dickbag.
Hm this is some complicated navigation of contesting Invidia that is in no way going well.
Kelly and her incredibly normal time of being mildly peeved a woman is cooler than her about to go. Very bad.
OH WOW JUST INSTANT TURBO MURDER WE'RE DOING THIS NOW.
Literally fuck the Seeds. All my homies hate the Seeds.
Cannot be understated that you are in the wrong career for being invested in those concerns Chiro!
Oh.
And Chiro doesn't knoooooooooow.
You are NOT handling this double life anymore than Inessa was Chiro.
Ugh. This is so messy.
Chiro's going "My Envy tells me you have to be happy to be the person I'm jealous of" and you can't even tell if any of that is pretending.
Bro. This hurts really bad.
She just. Can't even imagine C felt like less than the world to her.
You can't even make excuses about why you're doing this anymore, huh?
THIS IS SO COMPLETELY BONKERS BECAUSE NEITHER OF THEM. NEITHER OF THEM GET IT.
Inessa knows she doesn't get it but not how much so, and Chiro. Chiro is completely deluded on a whole other level.
...Chiro is using "her"...When the whole conversation prior referred to "them"...
Chiro interrupting that line to say 'it's not right, she had tried to', because what this is really about is. Allowing the unfairness. Being able to say it at all.
.
You know I'm remembering a scene from Across the Spider-Verse.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhwhcCq-IlA
A different kind of familial tension, but. The same...Same complicated love through strained independence and disguise.
Inessa does mean the world to me.
Chiro also means the world to me.
Good job signing the writ of your side of this war's destruction buddy!
...Does Chiro taking the initiative to refer to C by She/Her mean I can FINALLY use pronouns for her!?
MAN I HAVE BEEN WAITING ALL STORY, you would not BELIEVE how difficult it is to committing to not using any kind of pronouns besides "you" for the principle character of a webnovel I have written. 22 posts and 29-ish k words about.
Why did I do that? Well I just didn't want to use pronouns Chiro didn't agree to have used, and then it spiraled from there.
But that era has ended, thank god.
IT'S TIME FOR THAT KIRBY'S RETURN TO DREAMLAND SPECIAL!
I am sooooo ready for the final boss ass shit we're in for with a title this thematic and punchy.
Looking forward to being here next time Shadell!
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- She/Her
These posts are pure shots of seratonin
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think that "Why are you turning people into monsters instead of giving them therapy?" is literally asking why Avaritia doesn't become a therapist. (Though having an emotion sense might help with that.)
The focus, I think, is on "Why are you turning people into monsters?" Does that cure more mental anguish than it causes? Why do you think this is the best way to help them?
To be fair, she never expects anyone to listen to her.
Oh. How did I miss that?
Yes.
Avaritia is greed. That's what ey is. That's all ey're allowed to be. Eir every impulse must contort itself into that shape. That's the power wielded by Smug Snake.
That's not entirely true. He only taught her how to hate other people.
To be fair, Chiro is really bad at not acting like C. For instance, look at how quick she is to badmouth C when the other girls bring her up.
The hungry shark who gets to watch both of them fall flat on their face.
This sentence fragment is so delightfully absurd out of context. Or in context, really.
Anyways, yeah. It's nice that she can start to find herself, even if she's not trying to.
How has Avaritia convinced herself that this is the best way to help these people?!
I've got the opposite problem, where she's systematically identified every name anyone's used for her as something she considers separate from herself. Chiro is the mask she wears at school, Invidia is the sin writhing inside her, C is the person she used to be.
I did not expect to see this tall dweeb outside the Kengan Asura thread.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's a lot of weighty stuff I want to expand on here but I'm a bit sleepy and not in a headspace to expound on it so I'll just do some shitposting.
Compartmentalization is a hell of a drug. Honestly, Temp had to realize that she was trans thanks to Aviritia. Ey's enby butI'm sure on some level she gets it.
Avaritia is greedy enough to want to enjoy Temperance's happiness because ey feel like another sin would not allow them to be their best self. Genuinely fucked up behavior.
I will be serious and say I strongly disagree with this. Sloth is laziness and apathy, which isn't Chiro's problem. Rather than try to explain it in words, I want you to imagine somebody with an entirely different conceptualization of math, that thinks that even numbers added together always needs to equal an odd. This is something they feel deeply passionate about, perhaps have put years of scholarly work into supporting. And then somebody points out to them that 2+2=4. They wouldn't immediately abandon their preconceptions and agree that their entire paradigm is wrong, right? That doesn't even really make sense. They'd probably argue- okay, so 4 is two numbers away from two, but that doesn't mean that the act of addition would get you those numbers. Even if you got them to concede that 2+2 does equal four, they would go to great lengths to explain why this was an exception- two is the first even number, for instance, so perhaps because of this it flies akin to the rules that govern their worldview. Perhaps it's because it's the same number, and that balances it out in a way different from normal behavior, akin to the relationship between negative numbers. And so on.
Now to us, those seem like absolutely silly and bizarre rationalizations, and not connecting basic dots. But to them these are radically important, because otherwise they have to face a terrifying conclusion that they were wrong all along, and that they don't truly understand the world around them.
I would argue that none of the sins really fit Chiro well, in part because her fundamental problem isn't something captured by them at all, except in isolated parts that are, as Chiro has shown, in some ways actively deceptive if you view them in isolation.
You simply don't understand how much pain it is for Chiro to have to dress up in pretty clothes. It's agony really, but she has no choice, it is her cross to bear.
Compartmentalization is a hell of a drug. Honestly, Temp had to realize that she was trans thanks to Aviritia. Ey's enby butI'm sure on some level she gets it.
Avaritia is greedy enough to want to enjoy Temperance's happiness because ey feel like another sin would not allow them to be their best self. Genuinely fucked up behavior.
I will be serious and say I strongly disagree with this. Sloth is laziness and apathy, which isn't Chiro's problem. Rather than try to explain it in words, I want you to imagine somebody with an entirely different conceptualization of math, that thinks that even numbers added together always needs to equal an odd. This is something they feel deeply passionate about, perhaps have put years of scholarly work into supporting. And then somebody points out to them that 2+2=4. They wouldn't immediately abandon their preconceptions and agree that their entire paradigm is wrong, right? That doesn't even really make sense. They'd probably argue- okay, so 4 is two numbers away from two, but that doesn't mean that the act of addition would get you those numbers. Even if you got them to concede that 2+2 does equal four, they would go to great lengths to explain why this was an exception- two is the first even number, for instance, so perhaps because of this it flies akin to the rules that govern their worldview. Perhaps it's because it's the same number, and that balances it out in a way different from normal behavior, akin to the relationship between negative numbers. And so on.
Now to us, those seem like absolutely silly and bizarre rationalizations, and not connecting basic dots. But to them these are radically important, because otherwise they have to face a terrifying conclusion that they were wrong all along, and that they don't truly understand the world around them.
I would argue that none of the sins really fit Chiro well, in part because her fundamental problem isn't something captured by them at all, except in isolated parts that are, as Chiro has shown, in some ways actively deceptive if you view them in isolation.
You simply don't understand how much pain it is for Chiro to have to dress up in pretty clothes. It's agony really, but she has no choice, it is her cross to bear.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's an argument that C's general approach to the problems in his life that he acknowledged was kinda passive, or that coming up with rationalizations to deal with her problems is more slothful than acting to correct them.
Sloth definitely fits our protagonist better than Lust, Wrath, Greed, or Gluttony. And even if Superbia was willing to share his sin, her pride was worn down by years of something that was definitely not abuse, stop worrying about it.
If you're going to argue that Envy doesn't fit C, but you still want to assign her to one of the sins, Sloth is really your only option.
Sloth definitely fits our protagonist better than Lust, Wrath, Greed, or Gluttony. And even if Superbia was willing to share his sin, her pride was worn down by years of something that was definitely not abuse, stop worrying about it.
If you're going to argue that Envy doesn't fit C, but you still want to assign her to one of the sins, Sloth is really your only option.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sloth would, for C, probably push against her own self-realization. Leaning more into her depression, her self-deprication and her desires to just stop feeling or thinking at all.
It's work well, on some level, but instead of sad egg to sad girl who gets to be silly sometimes, it'd be a much darker path imo? Perhaps sloth as escapism wouldn't be toooo depressing, but it still pushes against self-knowledge in some ways.
Pride Chiro would probably be the more interesting abstract take around how egocentric she gets in her depression. Greed and gluttony are a bit trickier to justify, though I can see it somewhat, wrath would be incredibly actively self-destructive and lust, well, we saw how that ended.
For Temperance, her gluttony (consumption of luxuries writ broadly) helped her come to terms with her gender as something other than a source of bad feelings. And also just… getting to enjoy things she was denied until then and indulging in that instead of her suffering and her anger helped divert her a lot. Which isn't to say it wasn't destructive in its own ways or that it was the right move to take a seed at all.
It's work well, on some level, but instead of sad egg to sad girl who gets to be silly sometimes, it'd be a much darker path imo? Perhaps sloth as escapism wouldn't be toooo depressing, but it still pushes against self-knowledge in some ways.
Pride Chiro would probably be the more interesting abstract take around how egocentric she gets in her depression. Greed and gluttony are a bit trickier to justify, though I can see it somewhat, wrath would be incredibly actively self-destructive and lust, well, we saw how that ended.
For Temperance, her gluttony (consumption of luxuries writ broadly) helped her come to terms with her gender as something other than a source of bad feelings. And also just… getting to enjoy things she was denied until then and indulging in that instead of her suffering and her anger helped divert her a lot. Which isn't to say it wasn't destructive in its own ways or that it was the right move to take a seed at all.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, Pride Chiro seems like it would an interesting direction to see. Her whole issue with feeling powerless and lesser, how she lost her role as Inessa's protector, how she often talks herself down and others up, but also indulges in how she's "the better Inessa" from time to time and bragged about being able to take two people at once, and seems to underestimate her friends' honesty and or.
You know, in hindsight it's actually pretty obvious that Temperance resonates with Wrath and Patience more than she does with Temperance and Gluttony. Because dealing with all this shit without flipping her lid must take so much patience.
Actually, classical church philosophy places Sloth as closer to despair. Seeing all the different ways in which you're inferior and could better yourself, and then simply not doing anything about it, because as anyone who's ever had to deal with Depression can tell you? Change is hard and hope hurts, so it's just easier to resign yourself to the knowledge that you'll never be worth anything, and spare yourself the perceived certainty that all your efforts will only bring more painful disappointment.
Which come to think of it, while there's not actually any evidence for it yet, might foreshadow some things about Ida and her romantic character arc? We'll see I guess.
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- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Depends on the classical church philosopher. Some identified Acedia (sloth) and Tristitia (despair) as separate, distinct sins.
I mean, some of them also tried to distinguish between boasting and pride, but the point stands.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
To be fair she has to some degree clearly landed there completely by accident, given that the dogged pursuit of Chiro is blatantly her following up on the Saints organizational belief that Chiro is a Saint candidate, driven only even harder in her workaholic tendencies by Innessa being out of action.
Like yes, she clearly does want to help Innessa here, that's not a lie or anything, but she's also trying to forcibly drag Chiro into the Saint's little group so she can be added as a Saint so they can have more advantages against the Beasts.
It's also probably to Chiro's unwitting misfortune that, what do you know, she's still the same person she was when she was C so she still gets along with Innessa whether she wants to or not. So dragging her along even does probably help cheer up Innessa, and obviously so.
But all the constant hounding of Chiro that leads up to this? That's the workaholic tendencies in action.
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Recent reactions have made me focus more on something, and I think it's at least a little interesting - the core misunderstanding Temperance has about Avaritia. Temp seems to think that Avaritia would have left with her, but was too committed to the cause to do that, but I don't think that's really the case at all. We know that ey prioritize the people ey care about way more than that, right? Ey even call the ideology and overall plot the "party line".
It's more that Temperance doesn't know that Superbia falls into that list. Most of Lupins early actions, before getting Chiro to care about, are pretty Superbia focused, and ey're willing to work with a nominal Luxiria who seems to unsettle em to make Superbia's plot work out, and so on.
But why wouldn't Temperance know this? She was there when they met Superbia in the woods, right? It makes sense that Chiro is on the outside and slowly noticing the parallels to her dad and the abuse there, but Temperance would have had much the same treatment. So there's still some missing element that had Avaritia see something in him worth caring about or being invested in, I think.
It's more that Temperance doesn't know that Superbia falls into that list. Most of Lupins early actions, before getting Chiro to care about, are pretty Superbia focused, and ey're willing to work with a nominal Luxiria who seems to unsettle em to make Superbia's plot work out, and so on.
But why wouldn't Temperance know this? She was there when they met Superbia in the woods, right? It makes sense that Chiro is on the outside and slowly noticing the parallels to her dad and the abuse there, but Temperance would have had much the same treatment. So there's still some missing element that had Avaritia see something in him worth caring about or being invested in, I think.
See what's interesting about this is that I think we've already seen the answer to that question:
Lupin makes running interference between Chiro and Superbia, and more so giving her missions that obligate spending time outside the castle frequently, the status quo of Chiro's Beast career, to such a habitual degree that it's not hard to imagine that ey did the exact same thing for Temperance, especially since—
—Lupin had to have become Avaritia before Temperance was Gula, because they mutually corroborate that Avaritia was already "managing" Temperance on a position of Sin-liness, which is interesting in the context that Temperance was the one took initiative to leave the Children of the Forest, but naturally flows from everything that's been said about Lupin's tendency to conform:
Ey bend so ey won't break, and ey'll twist emself twice as backwards if it means benefiting someone ey love. So really, it's only natural Lupin dropped whatever eir reservations were at max speed if becoming a Beast was the obvious path to giving Temperance the safest position possible.
Being the one given responsibility to coax Temperance over to Beasthood, and then playing mediator between her and Superbia afterwards, would do a lot to explain why Temperance is more detached from his influence, and she's already blatantly more confrontational by nature even BEFORE you get blasted with the Ira reveal, she wouldn't have submitted to Superbia enough to, "benefit" from his more "tolerant" quirks, like Lupin has molded emself to cataloguing:
Would Temperance know whatever this, pain Superbia is going through is? No, because he never gave her a reason to look, and Lupin only was in the position to because ey contorted into a shape that could discover these soft spots, imagined and not, as a survival tactic.
It, doesn't help that there are, certain explanations that come to mind for what would nail Lupin to his side of the board even if ey weren't committed to something ey genuinely saw in contrast to Temperance:
Chiro is the only one who says it explicitly, but it's clear that every Beast believes that Superbia would punish their partner(s) if they fuck up, so what kind of calculus do you think ran through Lupin's head when ey realized Temperance leaving could provoke something, Worse from Superbia, if he didn't still have a subordinate he could foist field duties to?
We don't know what Superbia's reaction to losing Gula was, but I doubt he has such a. Live and let live sentiment as Lupin forces from emself.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Welp. We did get Temps going "I'll end you if you do that again", and Chiro being comforted by that. But she ain't leaving the internalized transphobia and ableism train.
You know, had been doing some jokes about mafia Michael adopting Temperance and being wrathful over protecting her, so the Ira twist is funny.
Probably good info for Superbia Chiro.
Also, guess she'd be a cocky vampire lady?
now that inessa is back in action, chiro has to put some more work into being her dark mirror. give invidia a little more pride and elegance, a little more of that vampire spice, to stand up to the new and improved castias
- Location
- SV's Only Complete Persona Quest
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Anyone here remember the Ultima games? Because I'm wondering how the Saints would be like if they were based on its Eight Virtues (Honesty, Valour, Compassion, Honour, Justice, Sacrifice, Spirituality, and Humility) instead of the Christian Seven Virtues? I could see Inessa, Ida, and Temperance falling under Compassion, Valour, and Honesty respectively, them being the base virtues.
I thought of Ultima together with ALV as, after the series established its Virtue system in Ultima IV, it then proceeded to question and scrutinise them and their consequences in following games. Mainly in Ultima V and Underworld, with the former about a tyranny in which these virtues are enforced, and the latter about a failed utopia built on these virtues. There's also beings like the Shadowlords and Guardian which embody the opposites of these Virtues, kinda like Beasts in function.
No idea if the Ultima games were an influence on ALV though, though if they were it wouldn't be out of leftfield, as I believe Shadell's at least heard of the series.
Though this all gets me picturing the Saints taking orders from Lord British instead of Michael, which I doubt would be much of an improvement
I thought of Ultima together with ALV as, after the series established its Virtue system in Ultima IV, it then proceeded to question and scrutinise them and their consequences in following games. Mainly in Ultima V and Underworld, with the former about a tyranny in which these virtues are enforced, and the latter about a failed utopia built on these virtues. There's also beings like the Shadowlords and Guardian which embody the opposites of these Virtues, kinda like Beasts in function.
No idea if the Ultima games were an influence on ALV though, though if they were it wouldn't be out of leftfield, as I believe Shadell's at least heard of the series.
Though this all gets me picturing the Saints taking orders from Lord British instead of Michael, which I doubt would be much of an improvement