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I get offering friendship and all that, I just find it hilarious that DP classified that as bribery.
Oh, @DragonParadox, I fully planned on offering this to her anyway as part of the standard diplomancing package.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
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I get offering friendship and all that, I just find it hilarious that DP classified that as bribery.
What else would you call it if you are doing it in the interest of manipulating her?
dpara
slightly confused ascendant
Cersei is that perfect combination, of arrogance, cruelty and unfounded belief in her own cleverness/superiority which I consider devil contractor #1.
Additionally as wife of the king she'd be under scrutiny.
Do devils trust their contractors?
An argument that I'd accept, is that devils see her and go "well nothing to do here".
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
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Blowing things out of proportion. If we consistently try to talk to the religious firebrands and knight templars first, we're the most charismatic person for miles around. If they're the Stupid Good kind of idiots who would smite someone who is clearly not evil and doing good work, then they deserve to be roasted.
We can, quite frankly, pick apart any argument Future Brienne gives us about why we're the baddies, by flatly pointing out that the people accusing us of being evil are obviously x10 fucking worse, then point out how much good we've done, all the slaves we've freed, the order we've wrought, the monsters we've killed.
If people like hypothetical Knight Templar future Brienne are too hidebound/blindly dogmatic to accept it, kill them. When they keep coming, and we try talking first, and they deny us, kill them.
Always offer the olive branch first. When they spurn your compassion, punish. When they accept it, reward.
Blowing things out of proportion. If we consistently try to talk to the religious firebrands and knight templars first, we're the most charismatic person for miles around. If they're the Stupid Good kind of idiots who would smite someone who is clearly not evil and doing good work, then they deserve to be roasted.
We can, quite frankly, pick apart any argument Future Brienne gives us about why we're the baddies, by flatly pointing out that the people accusing us of being evil are obviously x10 fucking worse, then point out how much good we've done, all the slaves we've freed, the order we've wrought, the monsters we've killed.
If people like hypothetical Knight Templar future Brienne are too hidebound/blindly dogmatic to accept it, kill them. When they keep coming, and we try talking first, and they deny us, kill them.
Always offer the olive branch first. When they spurn your compassion, punish. When they accept it, reward.
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The seven would get active in some retaliatory fashion. Not worth it to pre-empativly kill her when we have so many high level enimies. Basically for the reason you mentioned.
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When you put it like that, "Befriending the vulnerable child with the interest of breaking her faith in her Gods and making her loyal to us" does sound quite ominous.
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Offerings of friendship? All attempts to turn her away from the Seven are twofold. 1) To take away a powerful asset of the Seven 2) So we don't have to end up killing the poor girl.
Also, I dislike the idea of friendship being considered any sort of bribery. That rings of the attitude of canon!Renly who very casually manipulated Brienne into loving him and following his orders to the letter, then mocked her behind her back. If we're offering friendship it's going to be genuine.
- Location
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Social Looting Tactics
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
We could offer her a way to disguise her appearance and use the opportunity to gift her a Devil graft. That'll take care of her advancing as a Paladin.
They have already done that. There is a Cleric out there somewhere primed to be our enemy. This would be our retaliation. Let them escalate. I'm perfectly willing to depopulate Westeros of every septon and septa, and anyone else who professes belief in the Seven. When it comes to gods in a D&D setting, if they are your enemy, you don't pull your punches.
They have already done that. There is a Cleric out there somewhere primed to be our enemy. This would be our retaliation. Let them escalate. I'm perfectly willing to depopulate Westeros of every septon and septa, and anyone else who professes belief in the Seven. When it comes to gods in a D&D setting, if they are your enemy, you don't pull your punches.
Another reason not to kill her is that Westeros is stuffed with millions of people who'd literally give their right arm to be a Paladin of the Warrior. Even if only a small fraction is actually worthy, that's still enough that there's really no point in killing her, she's eminently replaceable.
So let's befriend Brienne if we can manage it because that way we might cause some friendly fire between her some of the more unreasonable sorts.
So let's befriend Brienne if we can manage it because that way we might cause some friendly fire between her some of the more unreasonable sorts.
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I'll grant your motives would be better than canon Renly's but they still would not be pure, not when weakening your enemies and gaining more power would be a clear part of them.
tarrangar
Fat arctic chicken
I'm not planning to corrupt her, taking her into our service after we have humbled the 7 sounds like a good way to reconciliate, and as long as we mainly humble them though their corrupt members, Brienne shouldn't be too angry at us.
The plan is to force the 7 to make peace with us, after we have inflicted rightful punishment on them for their crimes against the old gods, so we can have her as a Paladin of the Father, we just have to make sure our punishment on the 7, target those corrupt members among them a Paladin wouldn't tolerate either.New quest goal. We are making this happen. The fucking Warrior is not stealing a PC from us.
We can deal with a 7 worshipper too, we just need to make sure what we do to humble the 7 strike the corrupt, and mainly hits those associated with other aspects of the Father, it will be hard to do sure, but it wont be impossible, and we will need to make peace with the 7 anyways, long term conflict with them will give us too many problems with our subjects, so I say we hit them hard enough to satisfy the old gods, and then we do something as a reconciliatory gesture, and from there just try to live with them.
Yeah I say let the 7 deal with leveling her up, she's unlikely to level up fast enough to be a major problem when we take Westeros, and we kind of have to make peace with the 7 at some point, although of course only after the old gods are satisfied, taking Brienne as a member of the Kingsguard, would be a decent way to show we are ready to let old grudges rest.
Yeah but Dany was just a few levels behind us, youth don't prevent you from leveling, but you don't become quicker at leveling because you are young either, it takes a good bit of time between awakening and getting to our level range, so while sure Brienne will probably level up fast, she isn't going to level up faster than Dany did, which mean it will be at least a year or 2 before she's any threat.
Yeah and leaving Brienne alive and unbroken in her faith, is a good olive branch to give the 7 after we have inflicted due punishment, whereas she's too new and unknown for breaking her to do much in term of humbling the 7.
They're not that bad, and the majority of Westerosi believes in them, it would take time and cost a lot of lives to break their faith, it's better to humble them as much as the old gods require, and then make peace with them, as the Cleric of the Maiden has demonstrated, their anti-magic stance isn't that absolute, we can make sure it don't become a problem once we are king of Westeros.
Can we please not stay permanent enemies, of the biggest religion in the land we want to rule? While problematic it's not like the faith of the 7 is inherently vile like so many other faiths are, frankly they're not worth the effort not making peace would cost us, there's many religions it's far better spent on damaging.
DP has said the old gods will be satisfied, with us ending the lines of the worst of the invaders, and destroying a few things important to the 7, basically we need to kill or send to the wall all the males of some family lines, and make sure the women is not allowed to have their husband take their name, as well as do something like plant a godswood in the 7s biggest church grown with the blood of one of their champions, that's not a small thing, but we already have a champion they made to oppose us handy to be the sacrifice, and it's only a few family lines we need to erase, and they are okay with us just sending the males to the wall.
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Aside from Friendship being Magic. If the thread gets it's way we will have a shiny new Renly who just so happens to be straight (the perfect lord should be able to make heirs) and in need of a wife.
We absolutely can 'bribe' her, if we really want.
I'd settle for just keeping her away from Lawful Stupid paladin dogmatism.
This is a crucial distinction. IC Viserys just wants another ally, rather than another enemy, that we are doing it OOC to collect her is separate.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The above proves true.
You guys are priming your murder hobo blades in the wrong fashion.
Friendship is magic. Play nice where possible.
People who ascribe to being Good, if not Nice, will always try diplomacy and peace first, which blatantly plays to our advantage as a master manipulator.
You guys are priming your murder hobo blades in the wrong fashion.
Friendship is magic. Play nice where possible.
People who ascribe to being Good, if not Nice, will always try diplomacy and peace first, which blatantly plays to our advantage as a master manipulator.
- Location
- Germany
But where is the joy in that? The thrill of the hunt? The slow turning of the wheels as the corruption seeps in deeper and deeper? The cutting edge of despair as she sees the limits of her values? The exhilaration as she offers them up to be reforged into another blade to wield at her foes?
Truly, you have never corrupted a Paladin before...
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I'd much rather work towards eventually turning her away from the Seven. I have little to no interest in giving up before we've even begun.
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- Germany
Friendship isn't bribery, for it to be such, it needs to offer something. What Renly did was plain old manipulation and had he not died so early on, he would certainly have to deal with the disadvantages of that route sooner or later.
True friendship is a far surer poison.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
And that right there is the difference between Lawful Evil and Lawful Neutral.
You take pleasure in committing necessary but dark deeds, savoring the experience, while I simply see what needs to be done and take the requisite steps to accomplish the task at hand without concern for the moral limitations of others.
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Broken blades don't cut well. Sometimes they even cut the wielder.
I like my puppets dancing to the tune, what of it?
That's still helping her pursue Renly. Nice way to corrupt her into fuel for the forges of Dis, but nothing that makes her a better minion.
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
I know you're a devil but slide it back a touch Azel.
Corrupting her would be fun, will be fun I hope in the future, but business before pleasure.
We've got a lot of work to do before we bring these rotted lands to heel.
Besides if Aurane and OG!Renly are any indication of
nobility this place will be a blasted hellscape in a few decades if not years.We could just sit back, relax with our hot magic wife, and then swoop in to claim whatever's left after the unnamable horror some idiot summoned for a quick bag of gold tears this continent a new asshole.
Of course it'll run the property values into the shitter, but think of the fireworks.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
- Location
- Argentina
That is also happens to benefit us and that he wouldn't do that if she were a random nobody without PC levels speak about his alignment, though.
Slightly off-topic, I want a special place for the Baatezu that bother us:
Get them demoted to Lemures, learn their names (so that we cna resummon them), and then make them a meatshild company that we will call "The Regiment of Failure", which we will use on our wars to tank catapult shots and fireballs.