Seeing Red [Naruto]

UberJJK · Aug 27, 2017

Gnarker said:
Rotate one of the Sharingan 120° clockwise?

See I thought about doing that but I looked at the anime and Sasuke's Sharingans were lined up like mine. I've uploaded a version with that anyway:

matthew badger said:
What about a sharingan but with the two tomoe instead larger, stylised and poking out of the eye's edges? maybe also have the red part glowing?

I'm a big fan of having the final hurricane seal included somewhere, like in darkgamer's banner.

Technically I do have the Final Hurricane Seal there it's just in the inactive form. I even grabbed the exact color of Tsunade's seal. I gave a shot at extending it through the banner:

GrimTheMad said:
I wouldn't count on it remaining at two all that much longer.

Luckily I have a version with third tomoe:

GilliamYaeger said:
If someone wants an idea for a banner concept, how about a Sharingan reflected in a blade?

uju32 said:
Not bad.
If I could art worth a damn, the logo would be a sword blade reflecting a sharingan eye.
But I can't do anything on that level of quality.

I really like the idea but I haven't the slightest clue how to do it. I might give it a shot anyway tomorrow though.

Muer'ci · Aug 27, 2017

UberJJK said:
See I thought about doing that but I looked at the anime and Sasuke's Sharingans were lined up like mine. I've uploaded a version with that anyway:

This look so weird

ANd yeah, eyes in anime don't do the mirror thing.

But 3 tomoe might be best.

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Aug 27, 2017

[x] Yes, you need to win it quickly to conserve chakra!

Since it was Kabuto, the surprise is blown, and we do need to conserve chakra. Like, if it wasn't Kabuto I'd say there's still something of a surprise, but Kabuto is enough of a genius intellect that he'd know what we did.

Yun · Aug 27, 2017

She sheathed her sword when they arrived, and went to wipe it clean; only to find it spotless.

So there are a couple of possible explanation I can think of for why Hisana's sword doesn't have Kabuto's blood on it.

1) Kabuto is sufficiently capable with Chakra Scalpel that he can parry Hisana's chakra flow with it for a single moment.
2) Kabuto customized his Chakra Scalpel to burn any blood so his opponent has no tangible evidence.
3) That was a Shadow Clone meant to leave nothing behind, and capable of taking serious damage without popping.
4) Kabuto is resilient enough to simply tank a hit without serious damage.
5) The individual in question wasn't Kabuto.

Between the options I find possibilities 1, and 4 unlikely as these wouldn't really fit into the skills needed for a spy, but 3 would be very useful for a spy as it would allow them to gather info with a far lower risk of being caught, and makes it easier to hide their chakra. Furthermore it is something Orochimaru demonstrated in his fight against Team 7 in this quest.

So I'm fairly confident Kabuto was a Shadow Clone, and all trying to kill him alongside Baki would've done is give Kabuto more information on Hisana alongside creating an international incident by killing a Sand Jonin attending as a guest to the Chunin Exam. Although this does raise the issue of why Kabuto used a shadow clone is it because he knows/suspects Hisana has canon knowledge, or simply a habit he established as means of staying alive?

[x] No, you need the surprise!

For the moment I'll vote for this, but there is no guarantee everyone knows, and even if they do they still would lack first hand confirmation.

Although Hisana using her Sharingan to put Temari into a Genjutsu that makes her think Hisana is going for a quick win is probably a good idea just to test the waters on how far the information has spread, and what counters Temari has come up with on short notice.

Dark as Silver · Aug 27, 2017

Yun said:
So there are a couple of possible explanation I can think of for why Hisana's sword doesn't have Kabuto's blood on it.

1) Kabuto is sufficiently capable with Chakra Scalpel that he can parry Hisana's chakra flow with it for a single moment.
2) Kabuto customized his Chakra Scalpel to burn any blood so his opponent has no tangible evidence.
3) That was a Shadow Clone meant to leave nothing behind, and capable of taking serious damage without popping.
4) Kabuto is resilient enough to simply tank a hit without serious damage.
5) The individual in question wasn't Kabuto.

Between the options I find possibilities 1, and 4 unlikely as these wouldn't really fit into the skills needed for a spy, but 3 would be very useful for a spy as it would allow them to gather info with a far lower risk of being caught, and makes it easier to hide their chakra. Furthermore it is something Orochimaru demonstrated in his fight against Team 7 in this quest.

So I'm fairly confident Kabuto was a Shadow Clone, and all trying to kill him alongside Baki would've done is give Kabuto more information on Hisana alongside creating an international incident by killing a Sand Jonin attending as a guest to the Chunin Exam. Although this does raise the issue of why Kabuto used a shadow clone is it because he knows/suspects Hisana has canon knowledge, or simply a habit he established as means of staying alive?

[x] No, you need the surprise!

For the moment I'll vote for this, but there is no guarantee everyone knows, and even if they do they still would lack first hand confirmation.

Although Hisana using her Sharingan to put Temari into a Genjutsu that makes her think Hisana is going for a quick win is probably a good idea just to test the waters on how far the information has spread, and what counters Temari has come up with on short notice.

6) Kabuto was a Doombot.

notanautomaton · Aug 27, 2017

[x] Yes, you need to win it quickly to conserve chakra!

UberJJK · Aug 27, 2017

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
we do need to conserve chakra.

We do have a lot of Chakra and very high control.

We have a regular capacity of 90 Chakra and 250 Chakra in the Final Hurricane Seal for a total of 340 Chakra. That is S-Class levels although without any of the bonus traits A-Rank and S-Rank capacity would grant.

Applying our 70% chakra discount:

Article:

Replacement: Negligable
Bunshin: Negligable
Fire Release: Flint: Negligible
Demonic Illusion: Hell-Viewing Technique: Negligible
Momentary Blindness Justu: Negligible
Vertigo Inducing Technique: Negligible
Flashbang Technique: Negligible
Sharingan: Deceptive Blade: Negligible
Sharingan II: Negligable

Water Release: Cleanse: 0.3 Chakra per litres.
Body Flicker: 0.3 Chakra per use.
Shuriken Puppetry Jutsu: 0.3 Chakra per 10 strings.
Chakra Flow: Wind: 0.3 point of chakra is expended per minute.
Chakra Flow: Shape Manipulation: 0.3 point of chakra is expended per minute.

Wind Release: Decapitating Blade: 0.6 Chakra per ten blades
Earth Release: Double Suicide Decapitation: 0.9 Chakra per use.
Water Release: Gunshot: 0.9 chakra per use.
Wind Release: Gunshot: 0.9 chakra per use.
Demonic Illusion: Tree Binding Death: 0.9 chakra per use.

Water Release: Water Clone Technique: 1.2 chakra per use.
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire: 1.2 Chakra per use.
Wind Release: Raven's Wings: 1.2 Chakra per use.
Wind Release: Chakra String: 1.2 chakra per string

Fire Release: Grand Fireball Jutsu: 1.5 Chakra per use.
Hiding in Mist Jutsu: 1.5 Chakra per use.
Wind Release: Great Breakthrough: 1.5 Chakra per use.

Eye Plucking Jutsu: 3 chakra.
Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change: 3 chakra per use.
Chakra Flow: Razor Wind: 3 point of chakra is expended per minute
Wind Release: Drilling Air Bullets: 6 Chakra per use.
Wind Release: Wind Dragon: 9 Chakra per use.
Sealing Art: Prepared Explosive: Chakra costs vary, depending on size of the target. A large stone wall, used as a fortification, might take 9 chakra to breach.

Fire Release: Fire Dragon Flame Bullet: 9 Chakra or 15 Chakra
Shadow Clone Jutsu: 12 chakra per use.
Mystical Palm: 18 Chakra per minute
Chakra Scalpel: 18 Chakra per minute or 3 chakra per cut

Wind Release: Beast-Slaying Vacuum Blade: 24 chakra to use.
Sealing Art: Uchiha Flame Formation: 60 Chakra or 1.2 Chakra
Wind Release: Raven's Flight: 180 chakra per minute.

Hisana has 9 techniques with Negligible Chakra use, 10 that use less then 1 Chakra, another 10 that use less then 3 Chakra, with the remaining ten using significantly more then 3 Chakra.

One thing of note is that I put Hisana's Sharingan at Negligible Chakra use. It's listed as using 0.25 Chakra per minute which gets discounted by 70% to 0.075 Chakra per minute. At that rate it would use 4.5 Chakra per hour and 108 Chakra per (24 hour) day. Depending upon how fast Hisana regenerates chakra she's probably getting close to Itachi's feat of keeping a Sharingan active 24/7. My guess is that A-Rank Chakra Control is the requirement for that.

uju32 · Aug 27, 2017

Yun said:
So there are a couple of possible explanation I can think of for why Hisana's sword doesn't have Kabuto's blood on it.

7)Genjutsu.

A white-hot stream of fire roared out her mouth, the more focused version of the flame dragon bullet shooting straight for the enemy jonin. It was fast, but he had enough time to dodge the attack from this range. Only barely, however, and one of his arms was caught in the flame. Anything below the elbow was simply gone, vapourised by the heat of the flames, but the rest of the arm was charred and burnt.

I mean, seriously, what are the odds that we actually managed to fry the arm of an A-class shinobi?
Someone up there in the general vicinity of Kakashi?

My running hypothesis is that he put a genjutsu on it to make it look like we crippled him, and lure us in for the kill.
Only we did the smart thing and ran the fuck away.
Alternatively, the Kabuto was an illusion he used to bluff us after taking injury, but that's a significantly less likely possibility.

Dark as Silver said:
6) Kabuto was a Doombot.

Also a possibility.
There has been a suspicious absence of Zetsus so far in this exam.
And I will note that we couldn't sense Kabuto under stealth, just like we can't sense Zetsus under stealth. And she actually met Kabuto in the exam hall, so she should know his chakra signature.

EDIT
Do remember that canon Baki tanked a fullforce slash by Hayate to the torso in order to lure him into position to gank him. Only damage he took was a trickle of blood. Not really seeing a Flame Dragon Bullet from us is going to cripple him, not when we don't have our main seal up.

And Fire beats Wind, IIRC, but not Earth.

Vindictus · Aug 27, 2017

Eh, nothing great, but I decided to have a go at this banner thing:

Did use a couple pictures from the 'net for texturing the eye, mostly for the sake of time (texturing eye proteins by hand is hard, man) don't know if that'll be an issue.

GrimTheMad · Aug 27, 2017

uju32 said:
I mean, seriously, what are the odds that we actually managed to fry the arm of an A-class shinobi?
Someone up there in the general vicinity of Kakashi?

My running hypothesis is that he put a genjutsu on it to make it look like we crippled him, and lure us in for the kill.

Eh? That was Hisana frying his arm, why would that get blood on her sword?

And she didn't really cut into Kabuto either.

The weird part is how she cut down a whole bunch of those mooks and yet still has a clean sword.

uju32 said:
Do remember that canon Baki tanked a fullforce slash by Hayate to the torso in order to lure him into position to gank him. Only damage he took was a trickle of blood. Not really seeing a Flame Dragon Bullet from us is going to cripple him, not when we don't have our main seal up.

It was quite a lot more than a trickle, and that flame bullet was white hot. Durability in Naruto doesn't really reach the level of tanking that without specialized techniques- there's a reason dodging is the primary defense for everyone. And she used it while Lightning Blood was active- it came out far faster than he was expecting.

So it doesn't really surprise me that he lost an arm.

Painfulldarksoul · Aug 27, 2017

[X] No, you need the surprise!

Aranfan · Aug 27, 2017

Vindictus said:

I really really like that this looks like an actual eye.

spudman · Aug 27, 2017

[x] Yes, you need to win it quickly to conserve chakra

The cat's out of the bag already. Even if they don't know how it works they know Hisana is crazy fast, so that won't be a surprise to any enemies.

And I doubt those seeing it right before the invasion will be able to figure out the mechanics of it in time for it to matter.

Yun · Aug 27, 2017

kitsune9 said:
I want to ask the Ravens if they have a way to deal with the downsides of our Sharringon, even if it's just use it for happy events as well as battle.

Uh we have IC confirmation that happy memories does very little to distract from all the memories of battle, and the Sharingan apparently encrypts what the user perceives with it in this quest iirc.

She felt herself flash back to images of her blade heralding sprays of blood and finely sliced muscle. The memories of battle were always there, thanks to her Sharingan. They shared space with more mundane memories of trigonometry tables and ciphers; and happier ones besides. Much as one would find a pleasant meal in the same room as a dead body not all that much comfort, Hisana found that her other Sharingan memories provided only a minimal level of distraction from the more unpleasant ones.

Dark as Silver said:
6) Kabuto was a Doombot.

And here I thought it was Danzo's fault! Just look at this from his perspective presuming he has a degree of future knowledge Hayate's survival would be the perfect cover for him to be able to preposition Root, and make the Sound Invasion a relatively painless affair compared to canon.

Unfortunately for Danzo's goals given how often he screws everything up in canon, and the fact that the groups might be largely comprised of Transmigrants would make it too easy for one faction to become an echo chamber that turns "Danzo pretty much always makes things worse in the canon timeline" into "Danzo always makes things worse", which leads them to intervening against his plans regardless of the circumstances.

Actually I just had the very uncomfortable realization that radioactive green is similar in color to that of Shisui's Susano, and the entity being a mental construct of Hisana's mind would explain the lack of blood on her blade.

uju32 said:
7)Genjutsu.

I mean, seriously, what are the odds that we actually managed to fry the arm of an A-class shinobi?
Someone up there in the general vicinity of Kakashi?

My running hypothesis is that he put a genjutsu on it to make it look like we crippled him, and lure us in for the kill.
Only we did the smart thing and ran the fuck away.
Alternatively, the Kabuto was an illusion he used to bluff us after taking injury, but that's a significantly less likely possibility.

Eh possible, but unlikely imo. Because for this quest Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change no sells a majority of the known Genjutsu, and while I'd expect Kabuto to know a few Genjutsu capable of working around it they should mostly function by making the sender an inanimate object that emits chakra.

To me it simply is a matter of from Baki's pov Hisana basically completed her Jutsu instantly giving him little time to act, and when paired with a Jutsu that is effective when the user has sufficient precision something the Sharingan excels at providing we have the end result of him losing a limb.

uju32 · Aug 27, 2017

GrimTheMad said:
Eh? That was Hisana frying his arm, why would that get blood on her sword?
And she didn't really cut into Kabuto either.

She clashed a chakra-flowed sword against Kabuto's medical scalpel-charged hand.

GrimTheMad said:
It was quite a lot more than a trickle, and that flame bullet was white hot.

Baki is the kind of person strong enough to tank a special technique from a kenjutsu-specced special jounin at point blank range.
Tanking blows like that is canon for him.
And it's not like we didn't just see that it is possible for high-ranking shinobi to shrug off high-rank techniques.
Especially since I expect shinobi who are ranked A-class on average will have a couple skills that reach well into S-class terriroty.

A-class shinobi who are being serious remain a mortal threat to us.
There is a reason why we only thought that we could go after Kabuto in the forest when we had the support of our entire team and Uzumaki Karin.
Which is why I seriously doubt we tagged Baki enough to cripple him.

Yun said:
Because for this quest Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change no sells a majority of the known Genjutsu,

Point of order:
Mirror Heaven and Earth Change is very good at flipping visually-vectored genjutsu.
Demonstrably does nothing against sonics, for example.

And as Sasuke vs Danzo proved, even a 3-tomoe Sharingan from the most skilled genjutsu user of all time can be misled if the opponent is skilful enough.
A point reiterated by Itachi vs Kakashi in Shippuden.

Yun said:
To me it simply is a matter of from Baki's pov Hisana basically completed her Jutsu instantly giving him little time to act,

Note that Hisana herself notes that he had enough time to dodge the technique from that range.

A white-hot stream of fire roared out her mouth, the more focused version of the flame dragon bullet shooting straight for the enemy jonin. It was fast, but he had enough time to dodge the attack from this range. Only barely, however, and one of his arms was caught in the flame. Anything below the elbow was simply gone, vapourised by the heat of the flames, but the rest of the arm was charred and burnt.

That alone should make you suspicious.

GrimTheMad · Aug 27, 2017

uju32 said:
Baki is the kind of person strong enough to tank a special technique from a kenjutsu-specced special jounin at point blank range.
Tanking blows like that is canon for him.

Correction: Baki's vest took most of that blow, and he still got a nasty looking wound through it. Which honestly speaks more of Hayate than Baki. What kind of sword-specced special jounin doesn't use some kind of elemental chakra? (The kind that was introduced before chakra flow was really a thing, probably.)

Regardless, we don't see enough of Hayate for that to be any kind of impressive. And taking a slashing blow through a heavy vest is quite a lot different than tanking a focused B-rank fire jutsu. Which is something people don't really do in Naruto, with a few exceptions. Like I said, there's a reason not getting hit is the first, second, and often last defense.

uju32 said:
A-class shinobi who are being serious remain a mortal threat to us.

Of course! Never denied that for a second. Hell, chuunin could still be a mortal threat if they get really lucky- that's how Naruto works. This isn't DBZ, you don't become immune to damage from people with less chakra than you. (Though honestly, Hisana probably has more chakra than Baki anyways. She's kind of ridiculous, there.)

However, in the same vein, Hisana is a mortal threat to A-class shinobi who are being serious.

(Also there's no evidence for A-class shinobi commonly having S-rank techniques. Remember that Kakashi's trump card is only A-rank. Kakashi, who is famous for knowing a shitload of jutsu. He doesn't get an S-rank technique until part 2, and that's from the sharingan. S-rank techniques belong to S-class ninja. Hell, most S-class ninja only demonstrate one or two techniques of that level.)

matthew badger · Aug 27, 2017

Vindictus said:
Eh, nothing great, but I decided to have a go at this banner thing:

Did use a couple pictures from the 'net for texturing the eye, mostly for the sake of time (texturing eye proteins by hand is hard, man) don't know if that'll be an issue.

Okay, what about this:

Eye like you have is placed at the centre, but in anime style (Still keeping the details that make it look like a real eye, but cartoonish instead). From the eye, there is a large lens flare of red which goes in both directions. The text sits in front of the lens flare, the horizontal edges slightly coloured as though the lens flare glow is illuminating them.

Edit:
Eye doesn't have to be anime, but it would fit better with the lens flare aesthetic imo.

Vindictus · Aug 27, 2017

Could work, but would require more skill in GIMP than I really have to be honest.

matthew badger · Aug 27, 2017

Vindictus said:
Could work, but would require more skill in GIMP than I really have to be honest.

Fair enough, though i think getting the ideas into something coherant that most people agree upon might help people that happen to have those skills we lack.

Also, what if we changed the writing to be blood-red, to reference the quest's deadly nature and make the lens flare stand out properly behind the text?

azoicennead · Aug 27, 2017

Redshirt Army said:
Temari is not an opponent to be underestimated, achieving full jonin rank ahead of just about everybody except Neji, if I recall correctly. She explicitly spent hours hitting Shikamaru with wind attacks and can achieve full flight, which are both things we ourselves can't manage, implying superior Ninjutsu, Chakra Control, and/or effective Chakra Capacity to us - and we're no slouch in those areas.

Uh, we definitely can fly, and it looks like a better kind of flight that Temari's (which means her flight is probably cheaper):

Tekomandor said:
Wind Release: Raven's Flight: An improvement on Wind Release: Raven's Wings, this jutsu allows the user to fly at great speed. Significant pain or a lack of chakra will end the technique, and it is not suited towards long use. Costs 10 chakra per second.

Also, we can Greak Breakthrough 60 times in a row without touching our seal; if we assume that Temari's fan strengthens Wind techniques channeled through it, reduces their cost, or both, that puts Hisana within reach of Temari's accomplishments in a secondary specialization. I'm going to assume that Temari is better at it than us, but we can definitely spend hours throwing out wind attacks with an ounce of chakra rationing and we can fly.

uju32 said:
And as Sasuke vs Danzo proved, even a 3-tomoe Sharingan ~~from the most skilled genjutsu user of all time~~ can be misled if the opponent is skilful enough.

AFAIK, there's no evidence the part of this I struck out has any bearing on anything.

spudman · Aug 27, 2017

Hisana may have S-rank chakra capacity with her Final Hurricane Seal, but with the invasion she'll need every last drop. Hundreds if not thousands of enemy ninja running around, and high level enemies we might be facing, including an enemy jinchuriki.

I'd rather not run of out gas at a crucial moment.

And it's not like Hisana's speed would be a surprise, anyway, when Baki and Kabuto have witnessed her speed and are alive to tell the tale.

GrimTheMad · Aug 27, 2017

spudman said:
Hisana may have S-rank chakra capacity with her Final Hurricane Seal, but with the invasion she'll need every last drop. Hundreds if not thousands of enemy ninja running around, and high level enemies we might be facing, including an enemy jinchuriki.

I'd rather not run of out gas at a crucial moment.

And it's not like Hisana's speed would be a surprise, anyway, when Baki and Kabuto have witnessed her speed and are alive to tell the tale.

This is all very true. My argument is mostly that Hisana's A-rank base speed should be more than enough to deal with Temari quickly and efficiently. So using the Lightning Blood seal is entirely pointless, and just reveals a trump card to anyone who might not already know it.

matthew badger · Aug 27, 2017

GrimTheMad said:
The weird part is how she cut down a whole bunch of those mooks and yet still has a clean sword.

Holy shit, i knew i forgot something!

I had this niggling feeling about that during the first part of the update, but completely forgot afterwards. I think those ninja we killed have some kind of funky technique that protects them, which is why they're so willing to die for their cause and so successful despite their lack of ability against B rank nin and upwards.

spudman · Aug 27, 2017

GrimTheMad said:
This is all very true. My argument is mostly that Hisana's A-rank base speed should be more than enough to deal with Temari quickly and efficiently. So using the Lightning Blood seal is entirely pointless, and just reveals a trump card to anyone who might not already know it.

Unless Temari has a surprise we aren't anticipating...

Why leave anything to chance and end up spending more chakra than we have to when the Lightning Blood Seal would allow us to end it instantly with minimum chakra use?

Yun · Aug 27, 2017

Just to give me two cents in regards to the banner I find the black on red contrast appropriate for how the quest is handling the Sharingan, and simply the quest name.

uju32 said:
Point of order:
Mirror Heaven and Earth Change is very good at flipping visually-vectored genjutsu.
Demonstrably does nothing against sonics, for example.

And as Sasuke vs Danzo proved, even a 3-tomoe Sharingan from the most skilled genjutsu user of all time can be misled if the opponent is skilful enough.
A point reiterated by Itachi vs Kakashi in Shippuden.
Note that Hisana herself notes that he had enough time to dodge the technique from that range.
That alone should make you suspicious.

Uh the description for the Jutsu on the char sheet doesn't specify it being limited to visual Jutsu, and a quick check of the wiki shows that it says illusions not simply visual ones.

Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change. This technique, unique to users of the Sharingan, allows the user to decrypt a genjutsu that has been cast on them, then turn it back on it's creator. There are some limitations to this technique, but it is a powerful counter to genjutsu. Costs 10 chakra per use.

Anyways all the Sasuke vs Danzo fight gives evidence for is that normal Genjutsu cast by a Mangekyō Sharingan either surpasses the limitations of the Jutsu, or there is a bloodline component for using it thereby making it impossible for Danzo to counter with Mirror Heaven, and Earth Change.

matthew badger said:
Holy shit, i knew i forgot something!

I had this niggling feeling about that during the first part of the update, but completely forgot afterwards. I think those ninja we killed have some kind of funky technique that protects them, which is why they're so willing to die for their cause and so successful despite their lack of ability against B rank nin and upwards.

Eh if you want to go down the road of funky techniques they might have something similar to Pain, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense as some of them surrendered instead of fighting until they died, or at least the faction that attacked during the Academy Exams had members doing so.

Seeing Red [Naruto]

I've got 99 quests, I've finished one

XENO

Team Plasma Grunt

XENO

Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad