If Ranald couldn't directly help us codify Rite of Way, I'm not sure what the colleges could contribute.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I am fairly sure boney has stated before, if you learn it thats you giving him the option of using it whenever it would be useful and the reasonably best looking path towards the goal, as judged by mathilde. not as judged by us. as judged by mathilde. because by learning it we have already given the go ahead.
because if you didn't want to use the battle magic, you wouldn't have learned it. the answer to the problem of, 'i don't want to risk the almost completely unpredictable dangers of battle magic in battles', is not 'learn battle magic and hope boney asks us everytime mathilde thinks to use it'. its 'don't learn battle magic that you can't render safe with your tools'.
like the staff of mistery.
im no good at actually searching through threads on this website, so i can't find the exact quote. but generally, if you have something in your arsenal and it would be useful to use it in the course of a plan boney isn't going to ask us, and often doesn't. its just going to get used. just like how healing is entirely QM fiat
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- He/Him
Low, medium and high battle magic are not a categorization that appear in the spell list. The category above battle magic is cataclysm. The category below is fiendishly complex.
There exist distinctions of difficulty smaller than what the staff of mistery works in, was my takeaway from the knightbringer creation. If it is battle magic - even high BM - and the staff of mistery applies, then the staff lets us cast it as FC.
Is that last sentence correct, @Boney? Or is it more like what
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I don't understand the connection between your response and what you're quoting, and I can't find the original point you're arguing against and asking me to weigh in on.
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When we were deciding how many red riders to include in the knightbringer spell, We had a selection of options that included low battle magic, medium battle magic, and high battle magic, alongside the more familiar difficulty grades of Fiendishly Complex and Cataclysm.
Which is correct?
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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I believe it was meant to be in response to my post:
with this as context:I'm like 90% sure that the staff takes "high battlemagic" down to "moderate battlemagic", not to fiendishly complex. its "only" low-battlemagic (like rite of way, melkoths, and either the 'low' end of 3-apparition spells or 'high' end of 1-apparition spells) that gets reduced to fiendishly complex...and even then we still end up rolling for them some of the times they're used, if presumably with it being more about "how smoothly does this go?" than "do you explode?"
Many thanks! i knew i should have tried one more search and gone for cataclysm instead of "battle magic" or "waystone project" as the terms
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Abby is correct. I don't know how I mixed that up, lol. X_x
Unless my memory and searches are both failing me, I think this is currently undecided. The description of the Staff of Mistery was made with the knowledge that Melkoth's was the only mist-themed battle magic.
I think it would have to be vibes-based for each specific spell. There are high-level battle magic spells that it would be just silly to be able to throw around freely and repeatedly, particularly the offensive ones, and the same would be true of a lot of theoretical new spells with mist themes. That said, for the apparition-based spells specifically that would be bottlenecked by the apparitions only being able to be in one place at a time, I'd be a lot more comfortable allowing those to be knocked all the way down to FC.
I think it would have to be vibes-based for each specific spell. There are high-level battle magic spells that it would be just silly to be able to throw around freely and repeatedly, particularly the offensive ones, and the same would be true of a lot of theoretical new spells with mist themes. That said, for the apparition-based spells specifically that would be bottlenecked by the apparitions only being able to be in one place at a time, I'd be a lot more comfortable allowing those to be knocked all the way down to FC.
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The limitation I imagined was that - well, if this was a spell that is bordering on cataclysm and only just BARELY castable as FC with the staff, perhaps the requirement of a high wind environment (or a flask of AV) to cast from cataclysm magic applies.
Achievable, maybe even without an equipment slot if you have the logistics, but not without prep, and not in any way spammable.
...
It suddenly occurs to me that if we had a room of Oh Dear aboard the prismatic wanderer, any kind of battle magic difficulty that can be cast well in advance might be way more feasible. The only thing I know of that qualifies are apparition spells we make, but if that, say, allows us to cast the max size knightbringer and fog apparition spells and then jump down into the fray knowing that during this prep we (or a spotter) can press a button to tell even an ornery face eating miscast to bugger off, that sounds sick as hell.
I don't think that means it'd be riskless, but those rooms are clearly a step above a grounding rod, going by how Mathilde's Rooms got swiftly appropriated by battle magicians.
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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Huh! pleasantly surprised
I'll adjust my "things i would vote for" to include the 6-apparition version, though i'd still prefer the 3 apparition one, because if i understand right, the staff "only" makes it easier to cast after the fact, so the rolls to make the spell, codify the spell, and maybe even the initial "you have to cast it once while inventing it" roll would still be varyingly difficult battle magic. Mind, this still has the "IFF we can use CF or some other means to avoid having this cost 2-3 or even 3-4 actions" caveat
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If we can actually get one of those "press a button to instantly drain all winds" rooms installed on our ship, I will accept no less than 10, lol. Even if we lose the coinflip and it comes out cataclysm magic, those things were good enough to keep battle magic users safe when they were practicing with the stuff, so we could punch significantly above our weight if we took advantage of this.Huh! pleasantly surprised
Apparition spells can be cast in advance - so if we want to do an infiltration and then go absolutely overwhelmingly loud, it's pretty much perfect.
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- Location
- Oklahoma
It's possible that that could work how you envision, but a few notes.
One, the Rooms do not completely nullify the backlash of miscasting, seemingly dependant on the spell being used. The Amethyst Room (along with the entire wing it was in) was notably rendered completely inoperable for a lengthy period of time after a particularly nasty miscast, and the wizard involved was still fucked up- though they survived where they otherwise wouldn't.
Two, there's only so much room for cool shit in the ship, and that would be taking up rather a lot of it. We can't use liminal realms on something intended to be mobile, after all.
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
The tower of oh dear did not stop lord of change enacting parts of it's plan.
Cataclysm magic is bit beyond battlemagic. I would really rather not try to abuse this particular feature in that way.
Also what Grim said.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm definitely not going to vote for trying to make more apparition spells before we actually codify the one we have.
(And ideally pursue some of the other avenues I'm interested in for spell creation, such as trying to turn our shadow dagger mastery into a codified spell)
(And ideally pursue some of the other avenues I'm interested in for spell creation, such as trying to turn our shadow dagger mastery into a codified spell)
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- Location
- Aotearoa
Yeah our duty should be to make sure what we've invented doesn't die with us, before inventing more variations on the (Apparition) theme.
- Pronouns
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I can certainly agree with that, yeah.
After all, where else are we going to get the college favor to get all those apparitions from?
Dreams of taking the nazgul along with us aside, the most grounded version of my pitch about the Room is that it provides us a reasonable fallback if we lose the coinflip on max strength whispering darkness spell difficulty. Unlike with knightbringer where that coinflip was the near sole determining factor of whether or not we get to flip the table on the self-defense doctrine of the grey college, we're not shit out of luck anymore if a 10x whispering darkness spell turns out to count as battlemagic when Mathilde casts it, because we can have that excellent hedge.
Also if we ever go on one of those far flung adventures, having our core research infrastructure to hand would be pretty good. Mobile laboratories are sick. Also, we could use it for learning spells from those far flung places.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
I am wondering if we were to get handmaidens what would we want them to look like?
Because I don't want to copy Mathilde again. It already cost me my dreams of Nazguls. But I am not sure if there is any fun or useful shapes for them. On the other hand being able to send spirit assasians after anybody we want is a such a villianus wizard skill that I do want it pretty badly.
Because I don't want to copy Mathilde again. It already cost me my dreams of Nazguls. But I am not sure if there is any fun or useful shapes for them. On the other hand being able to send spirit assasians after anybody we want is a such a villianus wizard skill that I do want it pretty badly.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Make them giant spirit cats or wolves. Alternatively we could tap into the iconography of witch hunters and make them ghost witch hunters.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Nah, none of the vibes with me.
Maybe Driders? I think I am going to sleep on it. Something might come to me.
Edit: oooh that girl from the Ring might be neat. Feels incomplete tou.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Not altering the Handmaidens at all (perhaps beyond a grey coloration to show that they're from a spell) is fine if we want to retain a spook factor. They have an intimidating base appearance, and we wouldn't have to work around accidentally obstructing their preferred configuration of limbs.
Now this makes me a lot more desiring of making a 10 apparition spell. The possibility of having 10 apparitions just being able to *appear* on a battlefield with near to no risk to the caster just seems like a really good spell. It's probably not a spell that would be worth codifying, but the staff of mistery makes it a *lot* more viable than it would be otherwise.
- Location
- Canada
I expect we're about to find out, since we haven't had a turn pass since they discovered how incredibly lucrative it could be.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I think it would be cool if we spent some time inventing Windherding-based spells, or creating Windherding Enchantments. In particular I think we would have a huge scope for Windherding Enchantments if we made the enchanted items for other people, and not necessarily Eike.
For example, an Ulgu spell to make clouds for Ghyran to create a flood out of or Azyr to drop thunderbolts out of (a variant of lightning bolt or lightning storm that does require clouds, for example). We could create the Shadow Knives with Fireball enchantment, or use Shyish for an even more sure kill. Fool's Gold with Eye of the Beholder for an Eris-Apple knockoff.
We could also codify Shadow Knife into a spell.
For example, an Ulgu spell to make clouds for Ghyran to create a flood out of or Azyr to drop thunderbolts out of (a variant of lightning bolt or lightning storm that does require clouds, for example). We could create the Shadow Knives with Fireball enchantment, or use Shyish for an even more sure kill. Fool's Gold with Eye of the Beholder for an Eris-Apple knockoff.
We could also codify Shadow Knife into a spell.