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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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cheesyme said:
Sooo, teleport into combat, but not during combat, and even then she needs to throw out battlemagic debuffs where she's going to appear to consider it safe, gotcha.
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No she actually teleports out of combat too, the
Boney said:
With another burst of knives into the back of the nearest, you're gone.
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Is her teleporting because it gets easier if weaved into another spell, she casts shadow knives and simultaneously teleports out.
 
DragonParadox said:
Personally I find it the opposite, it is a vote to make the game less complex.
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It changes it from number management to social expectations, world building on the role of nepotism in the college ecosystem, and what wacky (possibly Lord) Magister Boney rolls to take an interest whenever we pry an AP loose for some delving into the unknown. And it means not having to plan entire sequences of turns around delivering a major development as we scrounge for favor.


Vote for Tenure. Coin Mafia 2025.
 
Tobtorp said:
No she actually teleports out of combat too, the

Is her teleporting because it gets easier if weaved into another spell, she casts shadow knives and simultaneously teleports out. Hell, even your own shorter snip mentions she's shooting the nearest guy in the back.
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They've already scattered and started running from here there, that's a parting shot as she teleports into another fight, not her teleporting out of a fight.
Boney said:
By the time the men he was rallying are able to turn their weapons on you, the murderous tendrils of your shadow and the bewildering wisps of fog emanating from you have reached them, and you're able to cut through several more before they begin to scatter. With another burst of knives into the back of the nearest, you're gone.
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cheesyme said:
They've already scattered and started running from here there, that's a parting shot as she teleports into another fight, not her teleporting out of a fight.
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Then how about 3 paragraphs down from that?
Boney said:
Unfortunately the Kul seem to be catching on to your methods, as each teleportation starts to be met with shouted warnings as the most strong-willed push through the aura of confusion to meet Branulhune with their own blades. You and your shadow still reap a bloody harvest but it is now a battle, rather than a slaughter. You don't like fair fights so you switch from Shadow Knives to Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma for weaving your teleportation cantrips into, making sure that wherever you appear there is also a field of jittering time, sending even the most skilled warriors off-balance as their well-trained reactions encounter the concept of time as a variable. Blades lifting to parry a swing moving a hair too fast or too slow, feet stumbling as one moves slightly faster than the other, sights and sounds taking a fraction longer to arrive and shaving just enough time from their responses to make all the difference.
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That's literally an enemy who knows she teleports and she's still cutting them down while casting battlemagic
 
Tobtorp said:
Then how about 3 paragraphs down from that?

That's literally an enemy who knows she teleports and she's still cutting them down while casting battlemagic
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That's her deciding an enemy that knows she teleports is too much to teleport on top of with just shadow knives, so she instead shifts to casting a battlemagic debuff on the enemies she's about to teleport to. Nothing there implies she's casting battlemagic, or indeed any magic at all, while engaged in melee. Everything says she's using magic to start the fight and then swinging her sword till they're dead and it's time to hit the next batch.

Again, the magic comes before the melee, not during.
 
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cheesyme said:
That's her deciding an enemy that knows she teleports is too much to teleport on top of with just shadow knives, so she instead shifts to casting a battlemagic debuff on the enemies she's about to teleport to. Nothing there implies she's casting battlemagic, or indeed any magic at all, while engaged in melee. Everything says she's using magic to start the fight and then swinging her sword till they're dead and it's time to hit the next batch.

Again, the magic comes before the melee, not during.
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Boney said:
You don't like fair fights so you switch from Shadow Knives to Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma for weaving your teleportation cantrips into
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I don't know what to tell ya, except that boney is generally pretty good at knowing when to use plural instead of singular.
 
Tobtorp said:
I don't know what to tell ya, except that boney is generally pretty good at knowing when to use plural instead of singular.
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Perhaps because she does this repeatedly, against multiple groups of Kul, and is thus doing multiple teleportation cantrips over the course of the battle? I'd assume that wasn't difficult to catch, but perhaps I was wrong and boney wasn't quite clear enough for you.
 
DragonParadox said:
Winds alone might not be, but High Magic might be. It is more than just 'the Winds', as we saw when Mathy watched Lord Seliph dispelling that necromancer's work, High Magic can do entirely novel things like disintegrate Dhar directly.
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pucflek said:
Theoretically speaking, some kind of Pit of Shades adjacent thingy could be enought? You open the liminal barrier with a spell and then funnel winds in equal measure in?
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Sure, or maybe he discovered cities have souls like forests and is using that, or he knew about previous liminal realms from when the Elves had a city here, broke in and expanded them. But Mathilde has at best discovered part of the secret.

xamaplak said:
That would explain some things. BRB need to go shave my beard and dye my hair orange.
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Shave your beard?! You're no Dawi!
 
cheesyme said:
Perhaps because she does this repeatedly, against multiple groups of Kul, and is thus doing multiple teleportation cantrips over the course of the battle? I'd assume that wasn't difficult to catch, but perhaps I was wrong and boney wasn't quite clear enough for you.
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I'd still very much count that as casting and teleporting mid battle. Hell mathy literally comments that this is now an actual battle and not a slaughter.
if several different groups of enemy charging her isn't combat then I don't know what is at this point.
 
Tobtorp said:
I'd still very much count that as casting and teleporting mid battle. Hell mathy literally comments that this is now an actual battle and not a slaughter.
if several different groups of enemy charging her isn't combat then I don't know what is at this point.
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Well let's take a look at that shall we?
Boney said:
each teleportation starts to be met with shouted warnings as the most strong-willed push through the aura of confusion to meet Branulhune with their own blades. You and your shadow still reap a bloody harvest but it is now a battle, rather than a slaughter.
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Hmmm, why that almost seems to be referring to when Mathilde is in melee and killing people with her sword, comparing the current "They can actually respond to Mathilde teleporting next to them and swinging" to the previous "Mathilde teleports in and murders them before they can effectively respond due to surprise, her shadow, and her aura of dread, and in one case being distracted with a spectral bear."

Mathilde doesn't like that, and so we next get the next bit that is very obviously her casting a debuff spell where she's about to teleport and engage instead of just casting shadow knives, in order to make things easier and less risky.
Boney said:
You don't like fair fights so you switch from Shadow Knives to Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma for weaving your teleportation cantrips into, making sure that wherever you appear there is also a field of jittering time, sending even the most skilled warriors off-balance as their well-trained reactions encounter the concept of time as a variable. Blades lifting to parry a swing moving a hair too fast or too slow, feet stumbling as one moves slightly faster than the other, sights and sounds taking a fraction longer to arrive and shaving just enough time from their responses to make all the difference.
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Then, if we go back and look at the actual uses of teleportation before that, and we can find a very notable trend, of her teleporting after she's removed all nearby threats with her sword.
Boney said:
Then you interweave Smoke and Mirrors into a casting of Shadow Knives aimed at the nearest Kul, and you disappear from where you stand with a swirl of fog.
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Boney said:
before they begin to scatter. With another burst of knives into the back of the nearest, you're gone.
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Boney said:
you're there to slice first through the haft, then through their wrists. Then you disappear again, this time with the teleportation cantrip woven into a recast of Dread Aspect.
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From this we can pretty easily draw the conclusion that while Mathilde is indeed teleporting in the middle of a battle, she is doing so when not threatened in melee, and is using the teleportation to engage people, rather than to disengage.

This also makes sense, as this means she can take her time with her spells and not worry about being interrupted or rushing, and thus have less worry about being stabbed while distracted, or worse, a miscast.

This would thus, you know, support what I originally said, and that you originally quoted, that Mathilde is teleporting into fights/melee, not out of them, let alone casting battlemagic in melee like you tried to argue earlier. Hell, nothing even implies anyone is getting close enough to charge Mathilde when she teleports.

Now, I am aware that you'd like to come out of this looking intelligent, so I will acknowledge that you are technically correct that Mathilde was casting during an ongoing battle, but you have been very obviously incorrect in every single other statement you'd made in this discussion so far, and you have quite literally quoted the bits of the update that showed you as such.
 
It occurs to me that while I voted for my "eh good enough" choice that has a chance to win, I don't think I voted for my actual first choice that hasn't a snowball's chance in hell, namely a war tower.

For the other runners up, I don't like the armor because it's too shiny and would really like Mandred to have it if he proves to be worthy. The grab bag is fine I guess, though the Jade and Celestial requests are bland enough to put me off. I'd at least ask for more böök.

And I specifically don't want a research tower/ship, we have a state of the art research facility, and I do like 8-Peaks being our important "home base", and replacing a key function of it feels very ehhhhh to me.

I'll also say the idea of trying to become an Elector Countess horrifies me, that's the only one that would make me actively distressed if it won.

[x] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[x] Plan : Sky Citadel
 
DragonParadox said:
Nope, the Smoke and Mirrors is free as long as she casts it in combination with a FC spell. She can still fail a combat roll and get stabbed, but not because she failed her teleportation
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and casting a FC while actively in melee with an opponent is incredibly unlikely to happen. We can teleport in, we can teleport when they're rallying or there's some other break in the combat, but if there's 4 swords coming at us RIGHT NOW, we cannot just cast a FC spell with enough speed to not get hit
 
chocolote12 said:
Mathilde's reasoning comes from the thread. The desire for the armor is to make more orcs explode, not because Mathilde is afraid of anything. We know this because the thread is talking about making armies of orcs explode, not because we're having a midlife crisis and we need the armor to satisfy some deep and crippling fear.
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The same was true for potions, but Boney still ruled that it'd actually be because Mathilde doesn't trust herself. I don't see a reason why it'd be different for armour.
 
DragonParadox said:
I am pretty sure the reason Elfcation was delayed for so long is that it costs three AP, three personal AP that we had to pay either all at once or deal with inefficiencies in the use of the Coin. As for the Iron Orcs I think the problem was more never feeling like we needed the Bretonians, we could not fit them in before we got the Foundation done and after that every Waystone action we took got us closer to our goal, we never felt we needed the help so of course we pursued the avenues that were opening up in front of us.
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More than the three AP, Elfcation meant having an interlude potentially the size of the Karak Dum expedition. And until recently that IRL months long interlude would have been slap dash between the long long build-up of the Waystone Project and the eventual first payoff of the Waystone Project. Before that it would have taken the place of multiple interesting jobs Boney wrote up for us while also being inherently postponable and coming right after aforementioned expedition. And before that, I guess we felt like we couldn't take such a holiday from our job at K8P and also we had clear steps of self-improvement we were always wanting to do first (which then flowed into the Karak Dum expedition instead).

I agree that the Iron Orc thing just never seemed to matter enough, even if it would probably have been cool. Hell, we chose book mining over it.
 
I am currently having this brain bug trying to imagine what Mathilde's thread inspired reasoning for each of the options would be.

Judging purely subjectively from my memory (and keeping in mind that I have skimmed A LOT of discussion) we/Mathilde never put much thought into how the rewards for her awesome achievement should be. Aetheric Vitae was always one of her preferred long term side projects she was tinkering with, because of its uniqueness and her personal connection to it, and because it felt just slightly forbidden (but wasn't). Then she discovered just how powerful the stuff is and got very excited and smug. And she definitely fantasized about showing all her colleagues and impressing them something fierce. But that's pretty much where her she stopped thinking ahead. So her kind of feeling put on the spot when she realizes just how big her reward would be, her mind flitting across a bunch of half-baked options before settling for one makes perfect sense IMO.

As for the options themselves:

Prismatic Wanderer would be a stroke of inspiration crossed with wanderlust. She digs up her insight into the marvels of being able to fly and combines it with a curiosity for far away mysteries, practical thought about battles to come of the kind that won't always interest everyone as much as they interest her (Nexuses and Dwarven reconquests and enemies across the mountains and seas), and the first thing that comes to mind as a possible eight college megaproject that isn't another tower.

The requests would be her taking the reward from the colleges and interpreting it as a reward from each college. For many of them she already has various things she always wanted that she never got around to. And now is the chance to get them with much less time investment and with a guarantee that the colleges won't just do her these modest favors, but do them to the best of their ability without needing extra handling or convincing and without fobbing the jobs off to just any random idle Magister owing someone a favor, like they would if she spent standard amounts of CF wheeled and dealed and horse traded based on her regular academic achievements and good standing. As for the Colleges for whom she doesn't have specific requests, honestly, some of it, like coming to the Celestials with a cash request, kind of fills her with mischievous glee. Ranald would approve.

The Von Tarnus armor would be her scrambling for something quick and practical to preferably be able to use as soon as possible. Her visit to Nagarythe might be in her mind, where she might meet her match when it comes to sneakiness. As might all kinds of other battles. Battles where she sees herself getting into the fray more even than before. It might not be the most inspired or fancy choice that comes to mind (and the other options getting so high would mean that they were at least something she thought of), but on a personal level it is the most straight forward and practical and on a college level, well, they wanted to give her a commensurate tool and the armor is indeed a commensurate tool that they have, laying around and waiting to be used. Sure, there might be others who could use it just as well. But who says that they'd put it to better use than her? Her past military campaigns sure were the kind where one powerful figure made a lot of difference in all kinds of dangerous situations.

Or at least those are my interpretations of realistically possible thoughts internal to Mathilde.
consequences said:
It changes it from number management to social expectations, world building on the role of nepotism in the college ecosystem, and what wacky (possibly Lord) Magister Boney rolls to take an interest whenever we pry an AP loose for some delving into the unknown. And it means not having to plan entire sequences of turns around delivering a major development as we scrounge for favor.


Vote for Tenure. Coin Mafia 2025.
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CF is already supposed a game abstraction for social expectations and political wheeling and dealing within the college system. Boney introduced it for a reason, a reason other than verisimilitude. And while I trust that Boney is ready and willing to work without that system if we ask him to (else he wouldn't have let the write-in stand) and I can't even say whether he has any kind of dislike with trying, I don't see the CF system having outrun its usefulness or lost its upsides over the course of the quest. It still does what it was designed to do and IMHO it does it well.
 
Alliterate said:
Do we know if an Inextinguishable Flame enchantment could mean Adela can never turn off the gyrocarriage engine? I'd hope the Bright Enchantment comes with it's own on/off switch, at least.
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I don't think it's been covered, but I'd assume on/off is part of the implicit base requirements. One way that could work would be Dispel, either manually or with its own enchantment, and once it's no longer a magical flame the normal way to power down should work.
 
Andres said:
The same was true for potions, but Boney still ruled that it'd actually be because Mathilde doesn't trust herself. I don't see a reason why it'd be different for armour.
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It would be different for a number of reasons.

1. The Armor of Von Tarnus would be earned through the doing of great deeds, much like Branalhune and the Belt of the Unshackled Mountain, rather than simply purchased like potions.
2. The Armor of Von Tarnus would stay with Mathilde, rather than being consumed each use and necessitating constant replacement and thus dependence on a reliable potion peddler.
3. The Armor of Von Tarnus still requires Mathilde to actively reinforce it with Aethyric Armor to reach its defensive heights, unlike a potion which works the same for whoever imbibes it and takes no measure of their skill and power into account.

It is a wildly different item, all told.
 
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