The idea that there's a single communication node without which the whole ritual will collapse seems completely unfounded to me. Sometimes the smart thing to do is the harder plan that works, and not the easier plan that doesn't.
Usagi Quest (CK3/Princess Maker) (Sailor Moon)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
To be fair, knocking out Onogoro HQ would probably fuck them up even if it didn't actually neutralize the godbinding ritual.
- Location
- Peterborough
How easy would it be to even find the HQ? Venus has no magical senses to locate it, meaning she'd be limited to trying to find his base by going through every building in the area that would be big enough to fit a command centre. I feel she'd be better off trying to find the source of origin for the rockets, unless that would be classed as the action for "try to do something about the rockets".
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It stand to reason that if you tell Minako to "do something about the rockets," she'll do whatever she thinks is most likely to "do something about the rockets."
Sailor Moon had good reason to think that Moon Sparkling Sensation was her best option because it worked great on the leaves and the quadcopter drones.
Nanoha can straight-up intercept the rockets in midflight because she has Raising Heart playing RIO to her ace piloting.
Sailor Venus would probably have to interpret the instruction a little differently; she simply can't do what those other two do the way that they did it.
Warp_Beacon
Love is Magic (C) Slaanesh
- Location
- Dungeons of the Pleasure Palace.
By the way, since the above mentioned Yuno, I have a question: Can Nanoha (with Razing Harts) create a barrier, and if so, is there a parameter in this spell that determines the initial position of those caught in it? For example, what if all of Onogoro's mages were suddenly a couple of kilometers higher than they are now?
It wouldn't even need to be held for long, just wait for the samurai to rain down.
It wouldn't even need to be held for long, just wait for the samurai to rain down.
- Location
- Peterborough
I don't think she can just use a barrier to shift peoples positions relative to the outside world. It hasn't been shown to work that way in the anime, all it does is keep the magic and effects contained. (I also don't think Nanoha has shown the capacity to make a barrier on her own anyway at this point in time, I'm fairly certain she's relied on either Yuno or the Arthra during her first season.)
Approvals:
[X] Plan Putting Out Fires
[X] Plan Priorities all accounted for
[X] Plan Multifront, Moon Witch version
[X] Plan Prioritize Jewel Seed and binders.
[X] Plan Stay on Target
[X] Plan Slow and Steady
-[X] (Nanoha) Try to figure out where the god-binding ritual is coming from.
-[X] COVERT
--[X] (Moon) Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
--[X] (Venus) Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
-[X] EXPOSED
--[X] (Mars) Try to do something about the prisoner uprising.
--[X] (Jupiter) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
[X] Plan Overwhelming Force
-[X] Nanoha: Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
-[X] Stop Evading
-[X] (Mars) Try to do something about the prisoner uprising.
-[X] (Moon) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
-[X] (Jupiter) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
-[X] (Venus) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
More practically there is the problems of Jupiter having limited range and a limit on what she can do while maintaining it. It is an interesting idea but probably not worth voting for.
Short term it costs us a senshi doing nothing but talking on the phone for a round.
Medium term it costs us the negative effects we left senshi at home to avoid.
Long term there are likely to be narrative and possibly mechanical effects for Usagi decided to call in more help in this situation. We have had a lot of focus on the potential danger of senshi abandoning their life outside being magical girls. And of Nanoha putting her job ahead of her health.
[X] Plan Putting Out Fires
[X] Plan Priorities all accounted for
[X] Plan Multifront, Moon Witch version
[X] Plan Prioritize Jewel Seed and binders.
[X] Plan Stay on Target
[X] Plan Slow and Steady
-[X] (Nanoha) Try to figure out where the god-binding ritual is coming from.
-[X] COVERT
--[X] (Moon) Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
--[X] (Venus) Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
-[X] EXPOSED
--[X] (Mars) Try to do something about the prisoner uprising.
--[X] (Jupiter) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
[X] Plan Overwhelming Force
-[X] Nanoha: Pursue the fleeing Onogoro witch who is carrying a Jewel Seed.
-[X] Stop Evading
-[X] (Mars) Try to do something about the prisoner uprising.
-[X] (Moon) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
-[X] (Jupiter) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
-[X] (Venus) Violently interfere with an Onogoro attack axis (West)
I note that the binding spell is very effective at neutralising the power of a magical target. And that it is easiest to target at someone throwing out a big continuous AOE spell. Jupiter putting up her teleport blocker might prevent the binding spell… or it might make her the perfect target for it without protecting her from it.Fuck—Wait. Hold on. Are we all stupid? The binding ritual that Onogoro is using against us. How are the ropes and tags and shit actually physically getting to us from whatever storage facility they're kept in? If the answer is "some kind of teleportation magic", I'm gonna lose it.
We literally have had a spell that prevents teleporting into or out of an area this WHOLE TIME.
More practically there is the problems of Jupiter having limited range and a limit on what she can do while maintaining it. It is an interesting idea but probably not worth voting for.
It is the "not calling for help when it would cost us nothing" that I have a problem with.
Short term it costs us a senshi doing nothing but talking on the phone for a round.
Medium term it costs us the negative effects we left senshi at home to avoid.
Long term there are likely to be narrative and possibly mechanical effects for Usagi decided to call in more help in this situation. We have had a lot of focus on the potential danger of senshi abandoning their life outside being magical girls. And of Nanoha putting her job ahead of her health.
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- Location
- Colorado
Why do we want to get punched in the face so much? There's enough stuff going on that I could forgive leaving us open in one thing, like dropping evasion or giving up on the rockets, but why are plans that leave us wide open in like three places at once so popular? Overwhelming Force drops evasion, stops guarding the command center, and does nothing about the rockets.
Plan Slow and Steady leaves the same vulnerabilities, minus dropping evasion. And as far as I can see there's no reason to? Slow and Steady has Nanoha on the godbinders, so if there's any plan that could actually risk dropping evasion it's that one, so there's not much reason to double up on the Jewel Seed? Either you think brute magical force is sufficient to handle it, which should only require Venus or Moon, or brute force isn't a substitute for the proper sealing protocols and a second senshi won't help much.
Plan Slow and Steady leaves the same vulnerabilities, minus dropping evasion. And as far as I can see there's no reason to? Slow and Steady has Nanoha on the godbinders, so if there's any plan that could actually risk dropping evasion it's that one, so there's not much reason to double up on the Jewel Seed? Either you think brute magical force is sufficient to handle it, which should only require Venus or Moon, or brute force isn't a substitute for the proper sealing protocols and a second senshi won't help much.
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Out of all options I feel that Nanoha has to be the one to go after the Jewel Seed.
Why? Because she's the only one with the capability to shut-down/seal the things. And this Jewel Seed is already semi-active and it going off over the middle of Tokyo is a very bad thing.
As for the Godbinders, they are a secondary element compared to the situation of Onogoro trying to invade/destroy MCAT. Any force we put on the GBs means one less helping with fending off this attack. And if MCAT manages to throw back the invaders and counter-attack, the ritualists will have to retreat in order to not be captured/preserve the relics they've been using .
Why? Because she's the only one with the capability to shut-down/seal the things. And this Jewel Seed is already semi-active and it going off over the middle of Tokyo is a very bad thing.
As for the Godbinders, they are a secondary element compared to the situation of Onogoro trying to invade/destroy MCAT. Any force we put on the GBs means one less helping with fending off this attack. And if MCAT manages to throw back the invaders and counter-attack, the ritualists will have to retreat in order to not be captured/preserve the relics they've been using .
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The God binders are the one actual threat to us, and removing them allows us to act more freely.
So long as they are there, we have to be careful ("EVADE")
If we don't, our AP hell will get a lot worse, and we won't be able to help MCAT as much.
If we do remove them, then we can drop a Senshi on every front every time, and they don't need to be busy evading the rope fetishists.
- Location
- Colorado
Sorry in advance for the large post, I want to get this out there before I sleep away half the remaining vote time.
Where to assign Nanoha is one of the biggest points of contention here, because she's unambiguously the best qualified for 3 different tasks: Sealing the Jewel Seed, shooting down rockets, and hunting the godbinders. Of these 3 tasks, the easiest one to replace her on is probably the godbinders, because while Nanoha is definitely better at searching large areas, Moon has a genuine lead. That lead might not pan out, but it's promising enough that it's hard to argue that Nanoha should devote her time to that instead of stopping things from exploding. However if you really want Moon to do something else, and really want to hit the godbinders, then at least vote to drop evasion, because that's the best cover for it we can really get this turn.
The next easiest task to replace Nanoha on seems like rockets to me. A lot of people disagree with me on this, but even if she's by far the best at it, the other girls are at least closer to being as good at stopping (or counterattacking) rockets than they are to being as good as her at sealing Jewel Seeds or searching large areas. Taking her off the choppers absolutely puts them at more risk, but as bad as a crashed chopper or two could be, a Jewel Seed activation could cause a lot more civilian casualties. It might not, it could end up just making another rodent of unusual size, but I'd rather not risk it turning Whisper into a knockoff dark Galadriel or a pet lizard into Godzilla.
That brings us to the Jewel Seed, which none of the Senshi know how to seal. The only Senshi remotely qualified to try to figure something out is Mercury, and that didn't work out too great in Uminari city. And she's not here yet. Even if a Senshi stops Whisper and recovers the Jewel Seed they've got no way to stop it from activating without Nanoha. That leaves them sitting on/fighting for their life against whatever monstrosity it creates, pinned down for a turn or two until Nanoha (or Fate I guess) finds the time to grab it. This is by far the most vital task she can be performing right now.
Whichever task she's given though, backup is probably superfluous. No one is better qualified to assist her with these tasks. I suppose there's the argument that a super!Empty Face is something she might need backup against if things go horribly wrong, but she can probably handle the situation before that happens, and if she can't her backup is unlikely to prevent the Jewel Seed from activating if she couldn't, just provide support after things go wrong. Having said that I think things are much less likely to go wrong for her without Senshi support than they are for the Spellblades at the prison break, the fighting at the West gate, or the choppers against the rockets. Nanoha is much more capable of resolving the Jewel Seed herself than any of the other forces are of handling these other threats.
Where to assign Nanoha is one of the biggest points of contention here, because she's unambiguously the best qualified for 3 different tasks: Sealing the Jewel Seed, shooting down rockets, and hunting the godbinders. Of these 3 tasks, the easiest one to replace her on is probably the godbinders, because while Nanoha is definitely better at searching large areas, Moon has a genuine lead. That lead might not pan out, but it's promising enough that it's hard to argue that Nanoha should devote her time to that instead of stopping things from exploding. However if you really want Moon to do something else, and really want to hit the godbinders, then at least vote to drop evasion, because that's the best cover for it we can really get this turn.
The next easiest task to replace Nanoha on seems like rockets to me. A lot of people disagree with me on this, but even if she's by far the best at it, the other girls are at least closer to being as good at stopping (or counterattacking) rockets than they are to being as good as her at sealing Jewel Seeds or searching large areas. Taking her off the choppers absolutely puts them at more risk, but as bad as a crashed chopper or two could be, a Jewel Seed activation could cause a lot more civilian casualties. It might not, it could end up just making another rodent of unusual size, but I'd rather not risk it turning Whisper into a knockoff dark Galadriel or a pet lizard into Godzilla.
That brings us to the Jewel Seed, which none of the Senshi know how to seal. The only Senshi remotely qualified to try to figure something out is Mercury, and that didn't work out too great in Uminari city. And she's not here yet. Even if a Senshi stops Whisper and recovers the Jewel Seed they've got no way to stop it from activating without Nanoha. That leaves them sitting on/fighting for their life against whatever monstrosity it creates, pinned down for a turn or two until Nanoha (or Fate I guess) finds the time to grab it. This is by far the most vital task she can be performing right now.
Whichever task she's given though, backup is probably superfluous. No one is better qualified to assist her with these tasks. I suppose there's the argument that a super!Empty Face is something she might need backup against if things go horribly wrong, but she can probably handle the situation before that happens, and if she can't her backup is unlikely to prevent the Jewel Seed from activating if she couldn't, just provide support after things go wrong. Having said that I think things are much less likely to go wrong for her without Senshi support than they are for the Spellblades at the prison break, the fighting at the West gate, or the choppers against the rockets. Nanoha is much more capable of resolving the Jewel Seed herself than any of the other forces are of handling these other threats.
- Location
- Peterborough
The choppers will retreat if we can't guarantee their protection. We are literally standing in the same room as the man who called them in, so if we send Nanoha away the helicopters will choose to retreat. They are no longer in a position to be incredibly useful anyway- the two reinforcement columns are at the walls and shrouded in magical fog (West) and grouping up with the more protected main force (North). The helicopters are no longer in a position to be of exceptional use and have done their job on the East.
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mars is probably decent at hunting God binders too.
But, uh... dropping evasion seems extremely reckless.
Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
The plan voting thing makes agreeing on a specific thing hard, given how many slightly different options there are. But voting for individual options might be even worse. May be hitting limits on the forum quest format without getting really convoluted.
Anyway, i think almost everyone agrees that we absolutely need someone on Jewel Seed, someone on west gate, and someone on prison. God Binders and Rockets would be very nice to do, but are less critical. Most agree reinforcements should be called if we have a Senshi who can do it.
Anyway, i think almost everyone agrees that we absolutely need someone on Jewel Seed, someone on west gate, and someone on prison. God Binders and Rockets would be very nice to do, but are less critical. Most agree reinforcements should be called if we have a Senshi who can do it.
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If we send a Senshi after the Jewel Seed, then Nanoha can handle Rockets.
If we send Nanoha, then we're stuck between "drop rockets", "drop west gate or prison", or "drop evasion", and I think that last option is an enormous trap and nobody should vote for it.
EDIT:
- Senshi Chases Jewel Seed: the Jewel Seed is more likely to become a problem, but Nanoha can do one of our EXPOSED actions
- No Rockets: Rockets cause trouble, and we have to put two Senshi on COVERED actions (Godbinders, reinforcements)
- No West Gate: Onogoro get into the building, and we have to put two Senshi on COVERED actions (Godbinders, reinforcements)
- No Prison: we probably lose some prisoners, and we have to put two Senshi on COVERED actions (Godbinders, reinforcements)
- Stop Evading: Good chance we lose a Senshi until we spend another action to get them back
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- Location
- Peterborough
The Jewel Seed pretty much requires Nanoha, without her there are several bad options that could occur:
Jewel Seed Empty Face- if the Uminari tree needed a full team of Senshi with Pretty Cure support most of whom are already busy dealing with this crisis or currently asleep, then a mage activated Jewel Seed will be even worse.
Unstable Jewel Seed- city ending scenario at best
Other Jewel Seed monster- depends entirely on what activates it. We can hopefully keep it contained, but that means a Senshi is out of the fight until Nanoha can find some spare time
Senshi activated Jewel Seed- complete and utter disaster that should be avoided at all costs
The best we can hope for with no Nanoha is a Fate/Chrono interrupt.
Also, as for no prison it's not "we lose some prisoners", it's "prison riot heads to Command Centre, Mars gets targeted by Godbinders, everyone in command centre dies" as worst case scenario.
Jewel Seed Empty Face- if the Uminari tree needed a full team of Senshi with Pretty Cure support most of whom are already busy dealing with this crisis or currently asleep, then a mage activated Jewel Seed will be even worse.
Unstable Jewel Seed- city ending scenario at best
Other Jewel Seed monster- depends entirely on what activates it. We can hopefully keep it contained, but that means a Senshi is out of the fight until Nanoha can find some spare time
Senshi activated Jewel Seed- complete and utter disaster that should be avoided at all costs
The best we can hope for with no Nanoha is a Fate/Chrono interrupt.
Also, as for no prison it's not "we lose some prisoners", it's "prison riot heads to Command Centre, Mars gets targeted by Godbinders, everyone in command centre dies" as worst case scenario.
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RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Then you should vote for these two too:
[] Plan Bring Venus Back
[] Plan Mars Command
They send Nanoha after the Jewel Seed too, and the rockets feel like the least threatening element here
- Location
- Peterborough
[X] Plan Bring Venus Back
[X] Plan Mars Command
[X] Plan Mars Command
One, the Onogoro HQ command tent is not in a building. OoC we know this because we got a cutaway scene of one of Lord Whose Name I Can't Remember aides conjuring something to block the skylight of the tent because the light from the anti-illusion star shells was fucking with their magical holo-table. So it is somewhere nearby, outside, and not under any illusions to make it look like something else like a food truck or something.
Two, inside that command tent is the magical equivalent of a switchboard operator, like an actual person physically connecting people calling the operator to whoever they actually want to talk to. I recall that this person was the one connecting requests from frontline troops to the ritual people to start another sealing attempt.
So, apart from finding and neutralizing their command and control center just being a tactically sound objective in and of itself, it would also accomplish the objective of "doing something about the godbinders"
Oh, and is Jupiter's Electromagical Interference really a channeled or concentration spell? Like she actively has to maintain the effect? Because if so, she sure wasn't doing that in the Choshi city raid or Operation: Slumberparty. I distinctly remember Jupiter throwing hands and casting other spells after she had set up the anti-teleportation effect.
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
It might actually be under such illusions to make it look like something like that from the outside…
- Location
- Peterborough
From Chapter 3. He's set up camp in the top floor of a publishing companies building, and mind controlled the staff into thinking they should run all requests for inventory be handled by one of his men. He's not in a tent.
Not while those flares are up, it isnt. Gah, I'm gonna go digging for reciepts l—
OH, FOR FUCKS SAKE!
Fuck it. I'm not changing my vote. I just want this event to end. I no longer care if it causes a wipe. At least then it'd be over.
[X] Plan LEEEROOOOOOY JEENKIIIIINS!
You know you can just skip this vote, right?