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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Fanhunter696 said:
I don't disagree that I am trying to get some extras, honestly but the Royal Progress was a minor Concession to begin with, and the Dragibpit is formalising something that is quite essential for establishing a cadet Dragon-riding Branch...
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As said, wouldn't be a branch it would be a house. Either way, no dragons for them in that case cause just no, we ain't giving the martells dragons. If the martell kid rides a Dragon it stays at dragonstone and their Kids are dragonless. Anything else is begging for a Dance to occur.

Not that i agree with marrying martell in the first place but i seem to be alone in wanting a marriage that doesn't risk enraging half the kingdoms.
 
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Somic said:
I mean... as the majority of the thread voted to insist on giving Dorne a dragon... evidently we are :V
It's not like I mind the discussion, but like, let's be realistic there.
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And that dragon better not stay in dorne, or forbidding our grandchildren from getting dragons (kind of necessary to avoid a tricky down that ends with all of dorne having them and rebelling.) Is not gonna do shit.

(Why can't you people just vote for the advantageous only marriages instead of this mess.😑)
 
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You know, we could simply create a new council post. Master of Envoys, our chief diplomat handling foreign relations with Essos and the Summer Islands perhaps?

Master of War is out, no standing army and goes against feudal tradition.

(Although we probably shouldn't give our husband a foreign diplomacy post that may require him to travel so far away. One of his vassals perhaps, or a place to put a different ally so Dorne can have another post.)
 
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PrimalShadow said:
Honestly this is fine. It is a compromise as all things are, but I don't think any part of this is unacceptable to the point where we need to renegotiate it.
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As i said in my earlier post, much of this either angers our lords, weakens our still somewhat fragile heir position or gives the non targaryens access to a maleable dragon rider.
 
Because we can't get everything we want, it's just not realistic. This marriage is a negotiation and it's mostly fine, the law thing is a bit iffy but meh.
 
I dont really have too many problems with the deal.

For me its just Dorne swearing fealty only upon our coronation mostly because that will be a mess. Though if we do get 15-20 years of Dorne being an official ally that would help sooth the tempers of the non-marcher lords.
 
Hopefully it will. Although we might have to visit the reach and the stormlands a few time with some cool tricks like a barrel roll! Let's show our Targaryen pride and dragons with some fire shows!
 
crusaderking01 said:
Not that i agree with marrying martell in the first place but i seem to be alone in wanting a marriage that doesn't risk enraging half the kingdoms.
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If it serves of any consolation I would have preferred Harwin, but honestly this dude is pretty great...

Besides that, we don't risk enraging half the kingdoms, we are are risking pissing off areas of the Reach, and the Stormlands (and considering what happened in the Tourney that won't be much of a difference)
 
''- Upon the signing of the marriage agreement by all parties, the Princedom of Dorne and the Iron Throne are to enter into a binding alliance, pledging to come to each other defense and provide aid as needed. This alliance is to last until Rhaenyra Targaryen is crowned as ruling Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, whereupon Prince Qoren or his successor will pledge eternal feality to the Iron Throne.''

Hm...

The devil is in the details in this one. If Qoren dies before Rhaenyra becomes Queen his sucessor still has to pledge feality but if Rhaenyra dies before she becomes Queen Dorne has a way to escape the need to pledge feality, potentially with some young dragonriders with a claim to the throne in hand too, something that can give very unpleasant ideas to some of the Dornish vassals. Especially considering that the handmaidens they want to impose on Rhaenyra are from House Qorgyle, which is perhaps one of the most dangerous Houses in Dorne (call it paranoia but I don't really trust a house that has scorpions as its symbol lol).
 
CharlieKing said:
@Teen Spirit with the current terms, would it be viable for our Dornish heir to be allowed to go back to Rhaenyra at least once a year? or would Rhaenyra have to fly down to Dorne to spend time with them?

additionaly, won't Dorne be forced to build a dragonpit anyway, if the heir does get a dragon? where else could they put it, unless they let it just wander around as it pleases.
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Generally the expectation would be Rhaenyra goes down to Dorne to visit.
 
My default reaction is to simply accept, but it's pretty late in here and I should probably get a good night's sleep and see more discussion tomorrow before actually weighing in on the vote... so far it seems like there's a few potential issues and curiosities, especially the "what if Rhaenyra never gets crowned" loophole, but most of them aren't worth restarting the argument over, and the loophole is caused by a pretty major balancing part of the agreement.

I wonder if we can put together an argument for "what if we amend it to 'I or one of my children get crowned'"... although that still only expands the joining condition slightly within a single bloc... no, too sleepy to think this through
 
If a Dragonpit was absolutely necessary for having a dragon live in Dorne, then Rhaenyra wouldn't have submitted a list of requests that includes giving Dorne a dragon without requiring a pit, and Viserys wouldn't have accepted it as-is. The horse is kind of growing cold on the ground...
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Oh, I mislike this a great deal. By itself it creates a grand alliance of anti-Dornish rebels and backers of rival claimants and gives them an opportunity to rise at the same time. We should insist on moving the timetable of Dorne's swearing of fealty to at, or only shortly after, our marriage. Two smaller rebellions is better than one great one.
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I wonder if someone else mentioned the possibility of rebellions beforehand, If only we had listened to them.
 
@Teen Spirit what is generally the prevailing opinion in Westeros about Dorne joining the fold? Is this generally accepted as good and desirable in most places, or is this really more of a pet project of the king that our vassals themselves don't really care for?
 
Teen Spirit said:
- It is asked that Rhaenyra not name any of her children after Aegon the Conqueror or his wives, Visenya and Rhaenys, so as to avoid any awkwardness with the people of Dorne.

You looked over the current terms. The naming thing annoyed you a fair bit. Visenya was a perfectly fine name for a princess
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Yes! Look I get why all these nobles have the same damn name in irl and Rhaenyra is attached to Visenya specifically, but I am all down for a concrete reason to give the children their own actual names.


Randino Treviani said:
Intolerable. Asking us to visit the capitol of Sand Land. I knew this pairing was a bad idea.
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??? Why. Like how is visiting the most prominent city in what is gonna be the brand new kingdom a downside. Is she supposed to annex Dorne and try to pretend it doesn't exist? What's even the point?

Susano said:
because Dorne has no real naval tradition
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Uuggghh I know this is Canon but this word building fact is genuinely one of the most baffling things and I fully support anyone who tosses it into the bin under "yeah no this is way too dumb." There's like way too many ways it's dumb.
Dorne is a desert with a prominent coast and rivers. You'd think they'd have "naval tradition" for the sake of getting around if nothing else! Shit even places where the ground isn't mostly fucking sand heavily used water transport!

And as mentioned before the fucking location! They are right smack dab in the middle between what are the biggest trading port cities in Westeros and the entirety of fucking Essos!!!!! Do the ships somehow just ignore the entirety of the country as they pass its coastlines while Dorne ignores all these damn boats?

Not to even mention just the basics of sovereignty. Are the Dornish actually just totally cool with pirates from Stepstones et Al raiding them as they twiddle their thumbs, giving them complete sovereignty over the seas on their coast???? Like sure the North doesn't have a western fleet but per Canon Asha's pinecone speech at least theres the excuse of there basically being nothing there!

crusaderking01 said:
(Why can't you people just vote for the advantageous only marriages instead of this mess.😑)
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Let me be real with you. This "advantages only" marriage is a complete myth. The whole point is that marriage is gonna be a mixed bag of pros and cons with it being up to the thread to decide which of the former are worth it and which of the latter can be mitigated.
 
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