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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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picklepikkl said:
Speaking from memory here, the main reason I picked the one over the other is because Dwellers Below seems like a really straightforward Apparition spell and not interesting, but the Amber set of possible Apparition spells have this whole mythos about Corvus the Crow Lord that pique my curiosity something fierce. Probably there's nothing there beyond what we already suspect, but there's a chance they're doing something weird with nature spirits or similar and if so I want to know about it.
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IIRC that was the reason. In the update, Mathilde notes that Feldmann and Paranoth were watching one another, supporting the Golds' suspicions that The Dwellers Below are Apparition-based. Dragomas' reaction isn't noted one way or the other.

If those crow spells really are Apparition-based, then they'll hopefully be something that can supplement what we already have. If they're not, then hopefully whatever method that is of making a spell that can independently fight can still apply to Ulgu - perhaps the originator of those spells literally made a deal with a spirit or god in the process of making of making them. (If so, maybe that'll open up being able to summon giant housecats from Ranald, after some negotiations?)

Anyway... My airship plan has been surpassed. I won't lie and say I'm particularly happy or anything, but Pickle's plan is pretty solid and has something for all the things that Mathilde cares about, even if it doesn't particularly excel at any of them. And I'll admit, a big part of the reason why I like it is also that we'd be finally getting the answer behind why Hexensohn was in Drakenhof.

[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV

I'll also approval vote some other plans:
[X] Plan Not Pickle Requests Variant with Apparitions
[X] Save the boon until we choose our next project
[X] Break College Favor/ Tenure
[x] Plan: Wrong Turn at Albuquerque

(I'm only still voting for my airship because I still want it more than the Armor.)
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
 
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Shard said:
[X] Break College Favor/ Tenure
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
[X] Save the boon until we choose our next project
[X] Cooperate with the dwarves on creating the plans for a flying ship type that can, in theory, be regularly produced - plus dibs on a prototype of a larger ship when such is built
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I'll edit that last one into my vote.
 
[x] Plan: The Next Generation
-[x] Use the whole boon to have the gold college teach Eike everything she can learn about material-enchantment, alchemy(-adjacent if alchemy itself is too much), and all-around enhancing and supplementing her Natural Alchemist trait until she's a walking talking reverse-engineering machine that can pick up magical crafting skills lightning quick.

The above is still my preferred option, 0% chance of winning though it may have. For runners up...

[X] Elector-Countess
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer
[X] Plan: The Prismatic Wanderer (Researcher ver)
[X] Cooperate with the dwarves on creating the plans for a flying ship type that can, in theory, be regularly produced - plus dibs on a prototype of a larger ship when such is built

I cannot say I am enthralled by a hodgepodge of favors that had no good idea for the Jades taking over an awesome airship we could take on a roadtrip to Nagarythe, Brettonia, Nekhehekaria, and Cathay, and the new world - not all places are in gyrocopter range, nor can all things be justified as good for the karak ankor to send hammerers along for. Characterizing the airship as simply a marginal gain over the gyrocopter is... not really doing it for me.

And is anyone really in the mood for perpetually setting the progress on our amenities to zero? Going from sunken palace to karak nar's peak to the elf city, we build up in one place for a while and leave. I'd like to start taking most of our stuff with us going forward, not leaving thousands of gold in furnishings behind again and again.

And on pickle's plan, there's even a better version of it that DOES do something exciting with the jades languishing near the bottom:

[X] Plan Not Pickle Requests Variant with Apparitions

...but most people aren't voting for that, even now. Having a shitload of whispering darknesses in a hurry would be awesome! Near-cataclysm-scale magic cast as fiendishly complex, for an effect that dovetails with mathilde's MO of throwing the battlefield into chaos and then picking off VIPs! And vice versa!

But instead we're just... using an early bandwagon as a tool to avoid getting an airship.

People like what they like, I can't speak to anyone else's motivations or tastes, but the tail end of some dance of adding and dropping approval votes because of ordered preferences that depend on everyone else's votes feels like a pretty dour thing to come back to.
 
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Am I on the wrong page? Did I go back a hundred pages? No? Apparently this vote is still competitive, wow, okay.

Well, I'm still voting for Prismatic Wanderer, since I really do think it's something of a capstone to her career, the proof that she managed to unite her divided loyalties (eyyyy) to achieve something beyond any one faction, and now that she's done it she's... not untethered from them, but able to fly free, knowing she has the will, influence and experience to ensure that wherever she goes she can do good for the people she cares about. It's the freedom to go where she wants, that she's claimed through her trust and faith in others.
 
I'm not going to lie, my preference for an airship would be substantially more thunderbarge-y. The inherent majesty of balloons and cannons.

Hoping we can finagle that with a Mega-Dwarf Deed some time down the line.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
I cannot say I am enthralled by a hodgepodge of favors that had no good idea for the Jades taking over an awesome airship we could take on a roadtrip to Nagarythe, Brettonia, Nekhehekaria, and Cathay, and the new world - not all places are in gyrocopter range, nor can all things be justified as good for the karak ankor to send hammerers along for. Characterizing the airship as simply a marginal gain over the gyrocopter is... not really doing it for me.

And is anyone really in the mood for perpetually setting the progress on our amenities to zero? Going from sunken palace to karak nar's peak to the elf city, we build up in one place for a while and leave. I'd like to start taking most of our stuff with us going forward, not leaving thousands of gold in furnishings behind again and again.
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Nagarythe was never an option to visit with the airship. For one, I doubt it can be built in... six months? We're probably doing Elfternship next turn. It also would be turned away. We were given an invitation for one person to be handed over at Lothern. There would be multiple people in the ship. A ship does not qualify under the terms of the invitation Daroir gave us. Ulthuan wouldn't allow a foreign military ship access to its airspace like that. We can travel to Bretonnia with gyrocopters; we have travelled to Bretonnia on a gyrocopter! I'm pretty sure Nehekhara is in range for gyrocopters. Though I'm not sure how the Tomb Kings would take that. Though I'm sure grumpy would be one of the reactions. Cathay almost certainly is not happening due to the difficulties in world building.

Where do you think we are going that you think that it is an option? We spent double the highest suggested amount for furnishings for the Project because of a dice roll and people took it as Ranald's will. I don't think that will happen again. It was also for an entire household, unlike what Mathilde's dwelling would be if she took up whatever position. Unless it was like, Governor of Swamp Town. But opulence expectations are far less in the New World than the Old World.

Mopman43 said:
I'm not going to lie, my preference for an airship would be substantially more thunderbarge-y. The inherent majesty of balloons and cannons.

Hoping we can finagle that with a Mega-Dwarf Deed some time down the line.
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I can't say I want that, but right now it seems like the best option to do that would be to start the Hellwar and do something really heroic in claiming one of the nexuses. Karak Vlag doesn't have the ability to do that. Reclaiming Mount Silverspear is a pretty long way's off. I guess the 13th Everchosen would be an opportunity, though I don't rank the chance as being high.
 
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Mopman43 said:
I'm not going to lie, my preference for an airship would be substantially more thunderbarge-y. The inherent majesty of balloons and cannons.

Hoping we can finagle that with a Mega-Dwarf Deed some time down the line.
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I don't believe the dwarves currently have access to thunderbarges - the Gas Forges of Morgrim being offline, or some such - so it's unlikely to be a possibility.

Having said that, I very much doubt we're ever going to own two full-sized airships. The gyrocopter at least doesn't do everything a magical airship would.
 
Execute/Dumbo said:
Am I on the wrong page? Did I go back a hundred pages? No? Apparently this vote is still competitive, wow, okay.

Well, I'm still voting for Prismatic Wanderer, since I really do think it's something of a capstone to her career, the proof that she managed to unite her divided loyalties (eyyyy) to achieve something beyond any one faction, and now that she's done it she's... not untethered from them, but able to fly free, knowing she has the will, influence and experience to ensure that wherever she goes she can do good for the people she cares about. It's the freedom to go where she wants, that she's claimed through her trust and faith in others.
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That's rather ironic since the flying ship would be an entirely Colleges project using College magic. If you want a capstone to her career involving uniting the expertise and capabilities of all of her divided loyalties, the answer is The Waystone Project with its elf-human-dwarf improved-model waystones dotting the world.

And there's nothing "free" about the ship. It's still a ship; far, far less comfortable than home and with nowhere near the ammenities for leisure or research.

If Mathilde is going to be enjoying freedom, it will be inventing spells and Windherding spells/enchantments while writing papers on neat things she finds. And the bulk of that will be happening at Karak Eight Peaks, where she's got world-class facilities already built for just that.

A flying warship is the opposite of freedom; it is official power and commitment. If you're going to be using it, you need a target worthy of a flying warship and a commitment to the kind of fighting it would entail. It would be an asset best used by us not even being aboard it, because we are specifically good at stealth, close combat, and espionage. The flying ship would have more in common with a high-level Battle Altar in terms of utility than our gyrocarriage which allows us to traverse the Old World with ease.


[X] Save the boon until we choose our next project
[X] Break College Favor/ Tenure
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV
[X] Armor of von Tarnus
 
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Rafin said:
Might be a stupid question, but was this a thing in real history as well? The only thing I know about this subject is the Game of Thrones scene where King Robert sent his squire to fetch a non-existent breastplate stretcher as a bullying move.
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Absolutely. Armour is a great deal less squishy than the person inside of it, and usually a lot easier to repair. Even in the most organized of armies, the armour of dead, demobilizing, or retiring soldiers would go to the armoury to be repaired and reissued - the British Museum has a legionary helmet with four different names carved into it. In less organized ones, after every battle you'd have to work very very hard to keep everyone on the winning side from having a sharp eye out for something they could nab to improve their chances of surviving the next battle. Even if you managed to keep them away, the camp followers might visit the battlefield that night to find things to either give to their husbands and lovers, or to sell to the very nearby customers with a very strong interest in acquiring armour.

You wouldn't get some random spearmanii jacking a suit of full plate - that's expensive enough and noticeable enough that it would always get claimed by those in charge of an army, even before you account for the fact that the person inside that full plate would be worth a hefty ransom if they're still breathing - but things like helmets, chainmail, greaves, absolutely. And every army would have people who would know how to make this things fit their new owners, whether that just be savvy soldiers that know how to splice in some extra length onto a strap, or camp followers that know how to pad out an undershirt to make something sit a little less uncomfortably, or full-blown armourers able to add or remove links to chainmail as needed. And if those people survive to take their looted armour home, that becomes a family heirloom, something that could make it so that a son sent off to war will come back again. Innumerable fragments of scale and chain armour have been found in completely non-military contexts.
 
I really want the armor, but approval voting go!

[x] Armor of von Tarnus
[x] Plan: The Next Generation
[x] Tenure
[x] Elector-Countess
[x] Cooperate with the dwarves on creating the plans for a flying ship type that can, in theory, be regularly produced - plus dibs on a prototype of a larger ship when such is built
 
SaltyWaffles said:
That's rather ironic since the flying ship would be an entirely Colleges project using College magic. If you want a capstone to her career involving uniting the expertise and capabilities of all of her divided loyalties, the answer is The Waystone Project with its elf-human-dwarf improved-model waystones dotting the world.

And there's nothing "free" about the ship. It's still a ship; far, far less comfortable than home and with nowhere near the ammenities for leisure or research.

If Mathilde is going to be enjoying freedom, it will be inventing spells and Windherding spells/enchantments while writing papers on neat things she finds. And the bulk of that will be happening at Karak Eight Peaks, where she's got world-class facilities already built for just that.

A flying warship is the opposite of freedom; it is official power and commitment. If you're going to be using it, you need a target worthy of a flying warship and a commitment to the kind of fighting it would entail. It would be an asset best used by us not even being aboard it, because we are specifically good at stealth, close combat, and espionage. The flying ship would have more in common with a high-level Battle Altar in terms of utility than our gyrocarriage which allows us to traverse the Old World with ease.
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None of this is correct. The airship will incorporate any elements and expertise that the colleges of magic have access to, which because of the waystone project and the comissioner includes the eonir and dawi. Boney has directly confirmed that we can add on to it later, including through the eonir and dawi. We also don't need to justify where it is used or go through any channels to use it, it is our airship, not the state's, that's why it costs a megaboon.

It's not even replacing the gyrocopter, we can even put a helipad on this thing, I'm pretty sure! Our options do not shrink in any way because we have a giant airship, lol. Nor can I think of any adventure we went on that couldn't have been improved by a large cargo hold to bring back loot in.
ReImagined said:
Keep in mind that one of those requests is Inextinguishable Flame for the gyrocarriage, which should make a drastic change in its effective range.
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Well okay, you've alleviated the fuel bottleneck.

Now deal with the cargo limitations and the miserable experience of actually being strapped into it. No way is anybody actually crossing an ocean in one of those things, there's no way to eat.

MrHobbit said:
Nagarythe was never an option to visit with the airship. For one, I doubt it can be built in... six months? We're probably doing Elfternship next turn. It also would be turned away. We were given an invitation for one person to be handed over at Lothern. There would be multiple people in the ship. A ship does not qualify under the terms of the invitation Daroir gave us. Ulthuan wouldn't allow a foreign military ship access to its airspace like that. We can travel to Bretonnia with gyrocopters; we have travelled to Bretonnia on a gyrocopter! I'm pretty sure Nehekhara is in range for gyrocopters. Though I'm not sure how the Tomb Kings would take that. Though I'm sure grumpy would be one of the reactions. Cathay almost certainly is not happening due to the difficulties in world building.

Where do you think we are going that you think that it is an option? We spent double the highest suggested amount for furnishings for the Project because of a dice roll and people took it as Ranald's will. I don't think that will happen again. It was also for an entire household, unlike what Mathilde's dwelling would be if she took up whatever position. Unless it was like, Governor of Swamp Town. But opulence expectations are far less in the New World than the Old World.
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...Boney has said what would happen if we brought the airship to Nagaryth. They would pretend it was an ordinary transport vessel. Something something elven pride, I think.

Fair cop that maybe it won't be ready by next turn, but... nah, that's not 6 months, it's more like 10 because you know we're visiting there at the end of the turn, and that when events within a turn happen are otherwise ambiguous to justify things like our cool loot being ready for the cool adventure we want to go on.

...Brettonia I just brain farted on, you have me there.

Anyways, Cathay! Boney said we'd need a cool adventure hook for him to consider going to Cathay. This is very different from saying we will probably never go there.

And that was before the Adepticon 2025 preview dropped a gigaton of new Cathay stuff. That dearth of lore may not persist for long now that you can buy and paint your own army of the faction...

EDIT: Dammit, I took too long to get a good source on the new army images, I got sniped! Cure you, MrHobbit! Cuuuurse yoooou!!!! :mob:
 
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MrHobbit said:
Oh god. Previews for the Old World are out.

Wood Elves and Beastmen have had their models revealed. Sadly it looks like the Eonir aren't going to be an Army of Infamy.

But the funny thing is that Cathay has been fully announced. Miao Ying is out on an expedition to bring Harmony to the chaos of the Old World. :wtf:

The models look great! But I cannot say I expected that.
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Using a peacekeeping operation to advance imperial ambitions. Oldest trick in the book.
 
So, I think I want to do war arcs next.

Yes, jumping in after a few dozen pages to a still competitive vote is strange, but it did make me rethink my vote a bit. And that made me think about what is coming next.

We just finished a huge diplomacy/magic/research project, and nailed it. I'm hoping for a small-squad action-adventure in the elfcation. After that?

Id like to use the cast we've got rather than new people as much as we can, and I want something with familiar beats that can show growth; we've fought with and led armies quite a bit, and we've got a few wars coming up where the people we know are likely to be fighting. The silver road, if we want to stick with dwarves, or a forest war if we wanted to try and pull in all our empire allies. Either way, seeking battles that will test us and fully use the skills we've honed will be validating, and the stakes are very explicit but not so high that the story demands you cannot lose.

So I guess I don't want the travel option, I do still want the war option. More Belegar and Gotri! More Roswita and Wilhelmina! Don't lose touch with all our old friends now that we are turning 40! Stay closer to home and huddle under a nice warm suit of artifact armor!
 
Prime 2.0 said:
...Boney has said what would happen if we brought the airship to Nagaryth. They would pretend it was an ordinary transport vessel. Something something elven pride, I think.

Fair cop that maybe it won't be ready by next turn, but... nah, that's not 6 months, it's more like 10 because you know we're visiting there at the end of the turn, and that when events within a turn happen are otherwise ambiguous to justify things like our cool loot being ready for the cool adventure we want to go on.

...Brettonia I just brain farted on, you have me there.

Anyways, Cathay! Boney said we'd need a cool adventure hook for him to consider going to Cathay. This is very different from saying we will probably never go there.
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The invitation is for the bearer to go to Lothern, then be shuttled to Nagarythe. A ship is not what Daroir had invited. What Boney said is that they would treat it exactly as if Mathilde had shown up in a normal ship. Do you think a normal ship would be allowed to travel through Ulthuan?

People have already came up with the idea of traveling there to trade magical traditions. I'm skeptical there will be much better ideas coming up.

Boney said:
They would go to enormous lengths to give the impression that they are unimpressed by your flying warship, so would treat it exactly if you had shown up in as a passenger in a conventional ship.
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Glau said:
We just finished a huge diplomacy/magic/research project, and nailed it. I'm hoping for a small-squad action-adventure in the elfcation. After that?
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I wouldn't say we're finished with the Waystone Project. There's a lot of questions still left unasked. At minimum we asked a question of the Karaz Ankor without asking Laurelorn and Kislev what their network does. Laurelorn doesn't have waystones and our current waystone isn't a good fit for its environment. We haven't investigated the nexuses in the Empire. We might be able to reactivate Mordheim's nexus!

The next phase of the waystone project probably would have war as an option. Melkhior's Tower is going to be pretty intense. There's also the Hellwars if people really want violence.
 
MrHobbit said:
Oh god. Previews for the Old World are out.

Wood Elves and Beastmen have had their models revealed. Sadly it looks like the Eonir aren't going to be an Army of Infamy.

But the funny thing is that Cathay has been fully announced. Miao Ying is out on an expedition to bring Harmony to the chaos of the Old World. :wtf:

The models look great! But I cannot say I expected that.
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God damn these Cathay models fuck hard. That Shugengan Lord model is fucking amazing. And that Miao Ying model ❤️❤️❤️
 
Not terribly happy about last-second turnarounds, but at least it's not the armor or especially Elector Countess (that one's worse than flushing it down the toilet. At least the toilet doesn't chain us down for the rest of the quest). Then again I only voted airship because the rest looked worse.
 
MrHobbit said:
But the funny thing is that Cathay has been fully announced. Miao Ying is out on an expedition to bring Harmony to the chaos of the Old World. :wtf:
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"I dislike that Protagonist Land isn't Cathay. Let's fix that."

Jokes aside... I really wonder why exactly she's here beyond it being convenient for the game line.

Glau said:
We just finished a huge diplomacy/magic/research project, and nailed it. I'm hoping for a small-squad action-adventure in the elfcation. After that?
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I think we're definitely at the stage where we could end it, but there's still some things that I don't see the thread (or myself) letting go of before we examine them to some extent: finding out what's up with the Eonir part of the network, making leyline-only waystones, getting Bretonnia onboard, scouting out the Forest of Shadows... A few other things, too.
 
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