I just think spending all that politicing in the north in order to put a different LP in place would be kind of stupid. We have plenty of politics to keep our hands full at the south that such a major investment of time would at the North would probably come at the expense of.

Again, I don't think that's wrong. If we're going to do that though, we shouldn't be getting Rhea a marriage that'll be totally worthless and net negative as the branch of the family she marries into ends up disgraced and largely imprisoned, which would be the case if she marries Benjen and Bennard loses (even if Rhea doesn't back him or ask us to back him).

I think if she does marry Benjen it does make sense to back Bennard, so if we don't want to do that we should vote something else.

And it takes Bennard out of the North where he wouldn't be in a situation to attempt his hostile takeover of the Winter Throne.

It very much does not do this, the marriage is to Benjen. What it does is give Bennard a marriage alliance with a powerful house outside the North, who is a friend of the throne, which makes him considerably more likely to try his hand at a coup, not less.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Ghost in the sun on Jan 16, 2025 at 5:12 PM, finished with 124 posts and 55 votes.

Here is things as of now.
 
Well the Wall will just be an interlude. Which means the next regular turn are the Twins. Can you imagine, a time for House Frey long before Walder. I wonder what the current Lord Frey will be l...

...oh.

Well then. I guess that is what we'll see at the Twins.

IIRC Teen Spirit even confirmed Forest as a romance option.

Well, he is handsome and it is a very strategic castle. Althought, I still prefer the have loads of adult dragons strategy.

It seems like a winning one to me.
 
...f*** It. Gonna change my vote.
After all, Cregan did supported Rhaenyra despite she did everything to ruin her image without knowing

Besides, we are going to be quite busy with everything under the neck
 
[X] [Rhea] [Romantic] Tell her she should follow her heart.
[X] [Rhea] The Stark
[X] [Shadowcat] Keep for yourself.
 
[X] [Shadowcat] Keep for yourself.

To Alicent is just overkill and unnecessary risk. She doesn't need the gift. We don't need another hint.

Also, it's kinda cool to keep it for ourselves.
 
[X] [Rhea] The Stark ~ Ties two of the most impregnatable realms to her side.
Except it doesn't. Benjen is the son of the younger brother of Lord Stark, and his father will eventually try to usurp the rule. Sochances are that in the long run, this marriage will put us at odds with House Stark / the North.

And it takes Bennard out of the North where he wouldn't be in a situation to attempt his hostile takeover of the Winter Throne.
Why would it? Rhea would marry his son Benjen, not him.
 
[X] [Rhea] Write-in (Subject To QM's Approval)
-[X]What of Eddard Mormont? A handsome enough man, wise enough to trust and listen to you. Of an ancient, Proud House. Still young enough to give you children, and quite taken with your beauty if I read him right.


[X] [Shadowcat] Write-in (Subject To QM's Approval)
-[X] Present it to Mormont, thanking him for trusting Lady Rhea and us and that without his being there it might have caught us or Lady Rhea first before he spotted it.

He trusted us and Rhea and got injured for it. He deserves a reward, and a slight... nudging of the truth. It is true that without him there might have been more danger, and that he was the one to find it first.

The exact circumstances... don't need to be known. And yeah. Why not mormont?
 
@Teen Spirit

It's not necessarily my preferred option, but just to check, could we give the Shadowcat pelt to young Cregan? Get us in his thoughts early?
 
[X] [Rhea] [Romantic] Tell her she should follow her heart.
[X] [Rhea] The Stark
[X] [Shadowcat] Keep for yourself.
 
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Again, I don't think that's wrong. If we're going to do that though, we shouldn't be getting Rhea a marriage that'll be totally worthless and net negative as the branch of the family she marries into ends up disgraced and largely imprisoned, which would be the case if she marries Benjen and Bennard loses (even if Rhea doesn't back him or ask us to back him).

I think if she does marry Benjen it does make sense to back Bennard, so if we don't want to do that we should vote something else.
Or we could just encourage Bennard, perhaps through Benjen, to let the power transfer go through properly rather than play any silly buggers

It took 2 years before Cregan got fed up with waiting for Bennard to let go of the seat and force the issue, there's plenty of room for softer diplomacy to take place

And I don't think Bennard's claim to the Winter throne serves our interests to back
It doesn't sound like he was standing on very stable ground or had a lot of support
Plus it sets bad precedent for us specifically

It very much does not do this, the marriage is to Benjen. What it does is give Bennard a marriage alliance with a powerful house outside the North, who is a friend of the throne, which makes him considerably more likely to try his hand at a coup, not less.
Rhea is heir to Runestone, while Benjen is nominally heir to nothing
Marriage would be put Benjen in Runestone, not Rhea in Winterfell

And that could conceivably derail Bennard's regency ambitions
As what's probably the main driving force behind it is the fact that the firstborn family is the only one that stands to inherit in Westeros, so he and his family have no lands of their own
But with Rhea they do
It's probably why he's even putting forward his son for Rhea to marry in the first place

And Bennard waffles when it came to Cregan, being "slow to surrender power" once Cregan came of age which "strained their relationship" and eventually lead to Cregan rising up and forcing the transfer of power

Bennard could have gone in a lot harder with usurping Cregan, even discounting just killing him due to the kinslaying stigma, there were options on the table that don't sound like they were taken

Which suggests to me that Bennard either wasn't fully sure of himself going all in on usurpation and/or he knew that the North wouldn't let him get away with anything too blatant so he was just stalling and weasling with the whole "I'm just hanging onto regency a little longer to make sure Cregan's fully capable of ruling"

In either case, having lands that he and his line will inherit could definitely change Bennard's priorities
 
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[X] [Shadowcat] Keep for yourself. ~ Nothing else would make the North look at her with more respect and admiration then the cloak of a slained Shadow Cat. And it's the North they love their warrior women.

[X] [Rhea] The Stark ~ Ties two of the most impregnatable realms to her side. Both kingdoms that have the highest amount of battle harden men because of internal security threats (Mountain Men and the Free Folk). And it takes Bennard out of the North where he wouldn't be in a situation to attempt his hostile takeover of the Winter Throne.

Your messing with vote count by putting your vote like that.

It should be:
[] Vote
Explaination
not
[] Vote - Explanation
 
@CrimsonOddball

It could, potentially. Or it could make him think he has better odds, since he's got allies.

If we're not interested in backing Bennard, then we have the much easier option of just not suggesting Benjen as a marriage option, rather than suggesting it and hoping some butterfly effect averts things off screen.

In the most convenient future, everything works itself out offscreen and we don't have to make any decisions where we're incentivized to do anything against a fan favorite character. But if that's what we want, again we can accomplish that by just not picking Benjen.

We need to also consider the most controversial and least convenient future, where Rhea gets pulled into the war by the marriage alliance and is asking for our support. And if we don't give that support we quite possibly lose that ally. Unless we've considered and are okay with that future because we'd give that support, I think we should make another decision.

Even if no coup attempt happens, it's be possible that we have to derail it by making it clear to Bennard we won't be back him, potentially alienating him (and possibly Rhea), while alienating Cregan by the fact that we have ties to people who were looking to coup him even if they didn't go through with it.

Edit: Actually, the least convenient future is Rhea backs Bennard due to this even without or support he's winning, and then we have to choose between letting the fan favorite lose and backstabbing our ally.
 
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Wow that's messed up and toxic. Targaryen madness is wack.
That's not even that weird in real life. There's loads of people with half-siblings that don't consider them actual siblings, and that's not even accounting for the trauma attached to her relationship with her father and why exactly she has half-siblings to begin with.
 
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[X] [Rhea] [Romantic] Tell her she should follow her heart.
[X] [Rhea] [Romantic] Suggest Maybe she doesn't have to marry, at least not yet, she does have plenty of cousins after all. Maybe she should consider other interests instead.
[X] [Shadowcat] Give it to Rhea Royce as a Gift

[X] [Shadowcat] Give to Alicent as a Gift.
[X] [Shadowcat] Keep for yourself.

@Teen Spirit

It's not necessarily my preferred option, but just to check, could we give the Shadowcat pelt to young Cregan? Get us in his thoughts early?
Decisively voting for any option to become cool dragon aunt.
[X] [Shadowcat] Write-in : Cregan Stark (Subject To QM's Approval)
Nah, Rhaenyra doesn't think of Johannas future kids as siblings
Can this change in the future whether or not from our action?
 
Wow that's messed up and toxic. Targaryen madness is wack.
That's not Targ madness, that's a combination of Johanna's bigotry and Jeyne's warnings against Johanna's children influencing our thoughts, plus our not having actually met the little darlings/terrors.

EDIT: oh, and whatever natural proclivities Rhaenyra has, of course.
 
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