Fate/Clusterfuck (Fate/Stay Night)

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Erien said:
Sakura stumbles back, her face covering her hands, then-

*BANG*
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This is why we called for the professional wife.. i mean witch

Erien said:
Then Caster is moving, clearing the space between you and Sakura in an instant, her hand pressing against Sakura's temple, and in the blink of an eye Sakura becomes a limp puppet in Archer's arms
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again huzzah professionals!... I assume Medea is a professional....

Erien said:
"There are familiars coursing through ninety percent of her body, and she is so magically starved it's a miracle she's alive." Medea says clinically. "That's not counting the organ damage."
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Medea quest: ... wow this girl is fucked up

Erien said:
I swear upon my honor as a witch
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Shirou: Swear on your honor as my girlfriend!... .. shit I said that aloud.

[X] ["Because someone has to."]
 
[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

Ayako has been super ride or die this whole time. Unreasonably loyal, and shockingly understanding. This isn't rewarding her with the truth or anything. This is showing the same openness and honesty that she's shown Shirou.

Like, the other two picks just sound like bullshit compared to this. It sounds like the explanation he gives whenever someone askes him to take care of himself. Ayako isn't a mushroom, she's taken everything thrown at her so far in stride, and while none of it has been easy, she has carried on. Respect her commitment.
 
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Nottheunmaker said:
[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

Ayako has been super ride or die this whole time. Unreasonably loyal, and shockingly understanding. This isn't rewarding her with the truth or anything. This is showing the same openness and honesty that she's shown Shirou.

Like, the other two picks just sound like bullshit compared to this. It sounds like the explanation he gives whenever someone askes him to take care of himself. Ayako isn't a mushroom, she's taken everything throw at her so far in stride, and while none of it has been easy, she has carried on. Respect her commitment.
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Yeah. Emotional vulnerability is good in a relationship. Attempting to paint worrisome disregard for your own well being as stemming from purely from altruistic regard for the well being of others is distinctly not, even if Shirou doesn't understand that.
 
Erien said:
[] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]
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I'm fairly certain that if we choose this Medea will appear and dropkick us in the face.

That being said I'm still pondering which to pick. I like to think him actually wanting to help to be a showing of important personal growth, but he really does need to come clean about his deeper motivations.

Will he finally tell her about the fire regardless of choice or is is just for the empty route?
 
Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 15, 2024 at 6:10 AM, finished with 35 posts and 25 votes.
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Results so far.
 
[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

This is Shirou at his core. No obfuscation, no excuses, this is how Shirou has felt about himself ever since the fire and Kiritusgu rescuing him. We need to be honest with Ayako for her to have a chance at turning Shirou away from this path of no self worth.
 
nkd1325 said:
[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

This is Shirou at his core. No obfuscation, no excuses, this is how Shirou has felt about himself ever since the fire and Kiritusgu rescuing him. We need to be honest with Ayako for her to have a chance at turning Shirou away from this path of no self worth.
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Preach, preach

Pretty much Voting for that one too because that's the Core of Shirou Emiya at the beginning of every single route

While Circe and Medea have done an excelente job correcting Shirou self-destructive mindset, everyone must be aware of how Broken Shirou before they can truly start healing him

[] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

Left blank. New vote posted
 
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Bless! Glad we were truly able to help Sakura, especially when things were this dire. That's what I wanted the most out of that last choice. Also,
Erien said:
"She'll be fine, Shirou," Medea says, a deep frown on her face as she continues to look over Sakura. "This is… personal."
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Really glad for this. Caster and Sakura are women who can relate to each other p well (especially after some scenes I've seen from Hollow Ataraxia). It's really nice to see Caster's reaction to a woman in a similar situation be "I need to save her". It's a good contrast to her reaction to girls like Saber (a pure girl she needs to corrupt). Obviously, some Shirou influence showing through, but I'm always glad to see this kinder side to her.

Now it seems as if our 2 witches are going to be able to interrogate an Archer. Hopefully this can help them get an even better understanding of our protagonist (although Caster needs that help more than Circe). Also, this Leysritt bit keeps delivering.

As for the three options (although i disagree that his parents survived):
[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]

All have a hint of Shirou at his most pessimistic, but I feel like the latter two go a bit too far. 2nd with the "Nobody helps", 3rd with the "I will kill anyone who threatens them". Both thoughts that Shirou is capable of, especially the 3rd one for this particular quest, but they do not feel core to his identity.

The first though, that feels really like the crux of Shirou's issues. Stuff he subconsciously believes that had to be addressed in each route of the VN. I think with how Shirou just helped Sakura, it's time for someone to hear his problems from the gut. Also, we should really throw Ayako a bone. Can't think of a better way of treating her like a serious heroine than having this Shirou talk.
 
So, I'm a bit confused, why is everyone suddenly voting for the least mentally healthy version of Shirou and deciding to discard any possible growth he's gotten over the course of the quest?

This vote doesn't strike me as a vote for "Where has Shirou come from?", it strikes me as a vote for "This is where Shirou has gone."
 
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Glernaj said:
So, I'm a bit confused, why is everyone suddenly voting for the least mentally healthy version of Shirou and deciding to discard any possible growth he's gotten over the course of the quest?

This vote doesn't strike me as a vote for "Where has Shirou come from?", it strikes me as a vote for "This is where Shirou has gone."
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Because without the help of others, Shirou would ever be a broken shell filled with his father dying ideal

A boy who suffers an extreme case of Survivor's Gullt, who took the ideal of the "Heroe of Justice" as his payment to the World for living where everyone else died

By fully opening himself to Ayako and the others, they can truly come to understand His "Inhuman" mindset, and therefore, help him to take another path

To no longer be chained by his Origin.
 
F.I.M.M.98 said:
Because without the help of others, Shirou would ever be a broken shell filled with his father dying ideal

A boy who suffers an extreme case of Survivor's Gullt, who took the ideal of the "Heroe of Justice" as his payment to the World for living where everyone else died

By fully opening himself to Ayako and the others, they can truly come to understand His "Inhuman" mindset, and therefore, help him to take another path

To no longer be chained by his Origin.
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So you want to have him step away from his complete lack of self worth by rejecting any step away from his lack of self-worth offered by the choices in the vote?
 
Glernaj said:
So you want to have him step away from his complete lack of self worth by rejecting any step away from his lack of self-worth offered by the choices in the vote?
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Is about sharing with Ayako the very core of Shirou's mindset and issues

He has changed during the course of this Quest were he be compared with any of the canon routes

But that doesn't mean Shirou has truly comes to terms with how Broken he Is, and how to start healing as a person

Shirou has changed, but he may not be fully grasp that yet.

And just like Sakura shared with him the secrets that were her relationship with Rin and the Matou family, Shirou also needs to be open about His "original" aspect.

So Ayako and the others can take His hand and continue taking away from a self-destructive path
 
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Glernaj said:
So, I'm a bit confused, why is everyone suddenly voting for the least mentally healthy version of Shirou and deciding to discard any possible growth he's gotten over the course of the quest?
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I mean, I'm not saying Shirou hasn't grown. I'm saying I don't think he's grown past this specific problem. This core issue of his hasn't been addressed or worked on and bad shit upon bad shit has kept happening and pushing him further from getting to it. You don't grow from ignoring your problems, especially if you think they're true; you just end up reinforcing them. Ayako has been the main one confronting him about it (at least once before). She's the one trying to butt heads with him on this.

This problem was also present throughout the stay night routes. It's one of the core struggles in Fate route for Shirou and Saber; It's part of Saber's side of the argument on the bridge. "Only corpses consider others more important than themselves." Day 14. In UBW, Rin learns about his problems on Day 13 after the Illya death. Shirou does not grow out of this mindset on his own, it's something he and the people who love him have to work through. It's an issue that's very present in his character very late into all the routes. As I said before, this is a great way to treat Ayako as a true Fate heroine.

Glernaj said:
So you want to have him step away from his complete lack of self worth by rejecting any step away from his lack of self-worth offered by the choices in the vote?
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I think you are mistaking us choosing this option as us giving Shirou this issue. This is a problem that we think Shirou has regardless of our choice here. If we voted something different we would still think Shirou has insane self-worth issues. We think it's something that needs to be addressed and focused on AND we want Ayako to do it.
 
F.I.M.M.98 said:
Is about sharing with Ayako the very core of Shirou's mindset and issues

He has changed during the course of this Quest were he be compared with any of the canon routes

But that doesn't mean Shirou has truly comes to terms with how Broken he Is, and how to start healing as a person

Shirou has changed, but he may not be fully grasp that yet.

And just like Sakura shared with him the secrets that were her relationship with Rin and the Matou family, Shirou also needs to be open about His "original" aspect.

So Ayako and the others can take His hand and continue taking away from a self-destructive path
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I do have to agree with this. Option 2 is what I would like Shirou to be, but option 1 is what I think Shirou actually is. Let out the issue, and start building from there.

[X] ["Because my life is worth nothing."]
 
'Because my life is worth nothing' feels like it's more what other people would realize drives Shirou more than what Shirou thinks drives Shirou. I'm not convinced he would frame it like that.

[X] ["Because someone has to."]

This, however, feels more like how Shirou might actually think about it.
 
Dragontrapper said:
'Because my life is worth nothing' feels like it's more what other people would realize drives Shirou more than what Shirou thinks drives Shirou. I'm not convinced he would frame it like that.

[X] ["Because someone has to."]

This, however, feels more like how Shirou might actually think about it.
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I mean: he might not have grown that much over the course of the story, but he did grow some. And realizing exactly what drives him with no lies or self-platitudes is growth indeed.
 
DestinyPlayer said:
I mean: he might not have grown that much over the course of the story, but he did grow some. And realizing exactly what drives him with no lies or self-platitudes is growth indeed.
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It's been a VERY busy ...week?

less then a week?

You know what they say. Live with a man 40 years. Share his house, his meals. Speak on every subject. Then tie him up, and hold him over the volcano's edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man.
 
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