Loyalty is its own Reward (A Traitor Legion Chapter Master Quest)

We're not sacrificing a damn thing, because QM explicitly told us we could still have Terminators in Company assigned squads, and if you recall separating out individual squads to assign portions of companies to different theaters is a thing we have been doing since the beginning.

If you want a giant block of Terminators, there is literally nothing stopping us from detaching and temporarily reassigning them elsewhere as needed.

1st Company isn't just Terminators! They aren't even majority Terminators in most Chapters!

The thing is I don't really understand how the 10th company wouldn't also be good at assaults. They still wear power armor and are a full veteran company. Their primarily focused on stealth sure, but they'd still be able to do what sternguard could do. The only thing we'd be missing out on is a full terminator company which most chapters don't even have. They just put what terminators they do have in the first. And we'd still have terminators they'd just be distributed differently.

Do I seriously need to spell out that you are choosing to have recon specialists instead of heavy combat specialists, and that this implies they will not, in fact, be as good at combat as they otherwise would be?
 
question: assuming the training of the serfs is independant of the local PDF, what the training levels of the PDF?

Thunder Owl ignored my post. Heck!
 
Last edited:
Do I seriously need to spell out that you are choosing to have recon specialists instead of heavy combat specialists, and that this implies they will not, in fact, be as good at combat as they otherwise would be?
No. The 10th company isn't just recon they are assassination, sabotage, and guerilla warfare. And I said they'd still be good at assault. They are still veterans in power armor. They still have all served in devastator, assault, and tactical roles. Sure a veteran 1st Company would be better at heavy assaults but they'd not be bad at it either. That is what I was saying.

There is no reason to be rude. I honestly don't care either way. I literally made two plans. One for each.
 
Last edited:
No. I said they'd be good at assault. They are still veterans in power armor. They still have all served in devastator, assault, and tactical roles. Sure a veteran 1st Company would be better at heavy assaults but they'd not be bad at it either. That is what I was saying.

There is no reason to be rude. I honestly don't care either way. I literally made two plans. One for each.

Yes, but it won't be their primary focus anymore. They're going to be elite scouts first, Veterans second. And I feel like that's a bad plan.

That's fair. I let my frustration get the better of me. Sorry for lashing out like that.
 
Adhoc vote count started by RedWake on Oct 12, 2024 at 6:14 AM, finished with 139 posts and 48 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Conventional Veteran Company, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
    -[X] Create 1st Company (Mutually exclusive with Elite 10th Company) (104/104)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30)
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60)
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (14/15)
    [X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
    -[X] Make an Elite 10th Company (Mutually exclusive with Create 1st Company) (100/100)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30)
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60)
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (10/15)
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (8/40)
    –[X] Inquisitor Abraham Harker
    [X] Plan Repaying Debts and Reaping Harvests
    -[X] Make an Elite 10th Company (Mutually exclusive with Create 1st Company) (100/100)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7): All Companies receive a Champion
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30): All Companies receive a full Command Squad
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (28/60): Split evenly between all Companies, attach to Command Squads as auxiliaries until we have enough to get a full suite of Veteran Sergeants.
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (10/15)
    --[X] All of them will be given suits of P-Corvus and Stalker Bolters.
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (20/40)
    –[X] 8 go to Harker and take P-Corvus suits with them, the remaining 12 will be sent out in groups of 4 in P-Corvus at Harker's discretion.
    -[X] Lend Veterans as Bodyguards to Notables across the Sector (30/20)
    –[X] 6 to Sector Lord Cartagena, 6 to Lord General Adolphus Tavisolta, 8 to whichever Navigator House helms the Mist Shrikes' ships.
    [X] Plan Eggs In Separate Baskets
    -[X] Create 1st Company (Mutually exclusive with Elite 10th Company) (104/104): Following the traditional structure of the Codex Astartes, assign your veterans to the 1st Company of the Chapter. (Will trigger Company Captain Sub-vote if chosen. Veterans will be divided into Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans. Future Terminator Squads will be automatically assigned to this company)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7): With a recently named Chapter Champion, you could name some other skilled battle-brothers as company champions. (Companies gain a Company Champion, which works similar to the Chapter Champion. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Company Champions)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30): Your Captains tend to go where the fighting is thickest and the danger the greatest, their own command squads could keep them safe. (Companies gain a Company Command Squad, which works similar to the Honor Guard. Each Command Squad gets assigned a Chaplain, Apothecary and a Tehchmarine. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Company Command Squads)
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60): Your veterans are your most experienced marines, and their knowledge and leadership could prove invaluable to your younger brethren. (Companies Squad gains Veteran Sergeants which grant success bonuses to the squad they are assigned. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Veteran Sergeant.)
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (8/15): The Deathwatch is ever hungry for veterans, and facing all the dangers the Xenos have to offer will benefit your marines (You send Marines to the Deathwatch, which will improve relations. Marines sent will be unavailable for a random number of turns, and they might during service, but when they return they might do so with improved equipment or even as notables.)
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (6/40): While the Inquisitors tend to conduct a significant part of their labor with discretion and subtlety, there is always a moment in which they need overwhelming force. (Put Marines at the disposal of the Inquisitorial Conclave, Will improve relations with some Inquisitors, and allow you to keep an eye on them.)
    --[X] Harker
    [X] Plan Scattershot Salesmen
    -[X] Make an Elite 10th Company (Mutually exclusive with Create 1st Company) (33/100)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30) - One Squad for All Companies
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60) - Maximum Veteran Sergeants for All Companies
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (15/15)
    --[X] All Deathwatch recruits will be given P-Corvus and Stalker Bolters, except for 3 who will have Plasma Guns
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (40/40)
    –[X] 15 go to Harker and take P-Corvus suits with them, the remaining 25 will be sent out in groups of 5 in P-Corvus at Harker's discretion.
    -[X] Lend Veterans as Bodyguards to Notables across the Sector (30/30)
    –[X] 10 each to Sector Lord Cartagena, Lord General Adolphus Tavisolta, and to whichever Navigator House helms the Mist Shrikes' ships.
    [X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
    -[X] Make an Elite 10th Company (Mutually exclusive with Create 1st Company) (100/100)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30)
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60)
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (14/15)
    [X] Plan Repaying Debts Reaping Harvests but with a elite 1 Company
    -[X] Create 1st Company (Mutually exclusive with Elite 10th Company) (100/104)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7): All Companies receive a Champion
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30): All Companies receive a full Command Squad
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (28/60): Split evenly between all Companies, attach to Command Squads as auxiliaries until we have enough to get a full suite of Veteran Sergeants.
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (10/15)
    --[X] All of them will be given suits of P-Corvus and Stalker Bolters.
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (20/40)
    –[X] 8 go to Harker and take P-Corvus suits with them, the remaining 12 will be sent out in groups of 4 in P-Corvus at Harker's discretion.
    -[X] Lend Veterans as Bodyguards to Notables across the Sector (30/20)
    –[X] 6 to Sector Lord Cartagena, 6 to Lord General Adolphus Tavisolta, 8 to whichever Navigator House helms the Mist Shrikes' ships.
    [X] Plan wait on the elite Companies
    [X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and paying back the Inquisition
    -[X] Plan Elites, Company's, Deathwatch, and Harker
    -[X] Make an Elite 10th Company (Mutually exclusive with Create 1st Company) (100/100): You´ve already diverged from the Codex by not assigning your rookies to the 10th Company, take it a step further by making the 10th Company your elite force. (Captain Secutor will maintain his post unless you reassign him. Veterans will be divided into Sharpshooter Scouts and Vanguard Scouts, Future Terminator Squads will be spread amidst the Battle Companies)
    -[X] Name Company Champions (7/7): With a recently named Chapter Champion, you could name some other skilled battle-brothers as company champions. (Companies gain a Company Champion, which works similar to the Chapter Champion. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Company Champions)
    -[X] Form Company Command Squads (30/30): Your Captains tend to go where the fighting is thickest and the danger the greatest, their own command squads could keep them safe. (Companies gain a Company Command Squad, which works similar to the Honor Guard. Each Command Squad gets assigned a Chaplain, Apothecary and a Tehchmarine. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Company Command Squads)
    -[X] Grant Companies Veteran Sergeants (60/60): Your veterans are your most experienced marines, and their knowledge and leadership could prove invaluable to your younger brethren. (Companies Squad gains Veteran Sergeants which grant success bonuses to the squad they are assigned. In case you don't fill the cap, Write-in which Companies receive the Veteran Sergeant.)
    -[X] Send Veterans to the Deathwatch (10/15): The Deathwatch is ever hungry for veterans, and facing all the dangers the Xenos have to offer will benefit your marines (You send Marines to the Deathwatch, which will improve relations. Marines sent will be unavailable for a random number of turns, and they might during service, but when they return they might do so with improved equipment or even as notables.)
    --[X] All brothers assigned to be assigned a suit of P-Corvus power armor and a Stalker Bolter
    -[X] Lend Veterans to the Inquisition (8/40): While the Inquisitors tend to conduct a significant part of their labor with discretion and subtlety, there is always a moment in which they need overwhelming force. (Put Marines at the disposal of the Inquisitorial Conclave, Will improve relations with some Inquisitors, and allow you to keep an eye on them.)
    –[X] To be assigned to Inquisitor Harker to be used as his bodyguards and at his discretion
    [X] Plan: Conventional Veteran Company, Filling out
 
Do I seriously need to spell out that you are choosing to have recon specialists instead of heavy combat specialists, and that this implies they will not, in fact, be as good at combat as they otherwise would be?
The only difference between our Elite 10th company and someone else's 1st company is equipment and preferred methodology. Same type of experience, same capabilities, same options in combat.

You want heavy assault, load up Veteran squads with Plasma Guns, Melta Guns, P-Corvus, and those no-hand-required Combat Shields. +3 armor, +1 Agility, and enough firepower to wipe a tank squadron in one go.

[X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
[X] Plan Repaying Debts and Reaping Harvests

Overwriting my vote a bit.
 
Last edited:
Currently plan wise the 1st company is winning but based on individual votes it looks like 10th company is winning 35 votes to 28

I think we should wait to get the 1st company because if we were to make it right know then we would be severely depleting the other companies without giving anything back while if we make the elite 10th company we won't have that problem
 
Last edited:
The only difference between our Elite 10th company and someone else's 1st company is equipment and preferred methodology. Same type of experience, same capabilities, same options in combat.

You want heavy assault, load up Veteran squads with Plasma Guns, Melta Guns, P-Corvus, and those no-hand-required Combat Shields. +3 armor, +1 Agility, and enough firepower to wipe a tank squadron in one go.

[X] Plan: Elite Scouts, Filling out the Companies, and Paying back the Deathwatch
[X] Plan Repaying Debts and Reaping Harvests

Overwriting my vote a bit.

I heavily, heavily doubt we are going to be allowed to have our cake and eat it too in such a manner. If we can, then this vote is essentially pointless.
 
Currently plan wise the 1st company is winning but based on individual votes it looks like 10th company is winning 35 votes to 28

I think we should wait to get the 1st company because if we were to make it right know then we would be severely depleting the other companies without giving anything back while if we make the elite 10th company we won't have that problem

If we make the Elite 10th, we can't make 1st Company. Ever.
 
Better to have the Sternguard and Vanguard marines of a traditional 1st company to bail out the regular marines when things go wrong or hammer is needed.
 
Better to have the Sternguard and Vanguard marines of a traditional 1st company to bail out the regular marines when things go wrong or hammer is needed.
Or just give the Elite 10th heavy weapons and armor when you want a Vanguard hammer, and let the superiority of stealth plasma guns and stalker bolters do the traditional Sternguard's job better than they do.

I heavily, heavily doubt we are going to be allowed to have our cake and eat it too in such a manner. If we can, then this vote is essentially pointless.
Then assign some Terminator armor to the Elite 10th when you think it's needed, and use the loadout I suggested to either support them or the rest of the time.

I do not know why you seem so enamored of this interpretation where you can't swap out gear like we've been doing the entire Quest, or that the Elite 10th can't throw down in non-stealth combat better than the rest of the Chapter just because they prefer stealth.
 
Last edited:
question: assuming the training of the serfs is independant of the local PDF, what the training levels of the PDF?

Thunder Owl ignored my post. Heck!
Their training level is listed in the Informational at page 1. Under the "Worlds" section
Yes, but it won't be their primary focus anymore. They're going to be elite scouts first, Veterans second. And I feel like that's a bad plan.

That's fair. I let my frustration get the better of me. Sorry for lashing out like that.
Technically they're all Veterans. So more "elite scouts first, elite combatants second".
Veterans will be divided into Sharpshooter Scouts and Vanguard Scouts, Future Terminator Squads will be spread amidst the Battle Companies)
Out of curiosity what are Vanguard Scouts and Sharpshooter Scouts supposed to be? Since for OG Astartes, Vanguard refers to melee experts while for Primaris Vanguard refers to covert ops. And Sharpshooter is entirely new to me.
 
Last edited:
If we end up getting the elite 10th company what we may be able to do is just make the 1st or 1st and 2nd squads of each company be terminators. Which could make us much more adaptable then any other chapter
 
Last edited:
Then assign some Terminator armor to the Elite 10th when you think it's needed, and use the loadout I suggested to either support them or the rest of the time.

I do not know why you seem so enamored of this interpretation where you can't swap out gear like we've been doing the entire Quest, or that the Elite 10th can't throw down in non-stealth combat better than the rest of the Chapter just because they prefer stealth.

Because under your interpretation, then making a normal 1st Company is a trap option and I have more faith in the QM then that. I, for my part, don't understand why you're so enamored of the idea we can make our Veterans be Scouts and still have them be just as good at their traditional roles with no downsides.
 
Because under your interpretation, then making a normal 1st Company is a trap option and I have more faith in the QM then that. I, for my part, don't understand why you're so enamored of the idea we can make our Veterans be Scouts and still have them be just as good at their traditional roles with no downsides.
My interpretation is that the traditional role of an elite Company is a waste of our Chapter veterans and you are exaggerating about how choosing one or the other is an insurmountable loss that cannot be overcome.

We don't need a traditional 1st company because we are better killers, complete missions more efficiently, and take fewer casualties both ours and friendlies when we don't do that. 9 turns of evidence for it. Everything you say you want, we can get a significant majority of the way there just by switching out gear and being careful with our deployments and plans.

That compensatable loss of effectiveness in certain niche scenarios is not worth sacrificing our particular traits and specialties (maybe double that in gained percentages) in all other categories for a full Company, and with the evidence we currently have I straight up don't believe you if you're telling me it's going to be a much greater loss than that.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top