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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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The Blackstaff is probably the 2nd most powerful Wizard alive, after the Merlin and before Morgan. Good to have him on the level, but I'm kinda shocked two Warlocks was more dangerous than a Lord of Outer Night and his minions. Goes to show that wizards with prep time are the most dangerous beings alive, and being Lawbreakers only makes them more deadly.
 
TheGrape said:
The Blackstaff is probably the 2nd most powerful Wizard alive, after the Merlin and before Morgan. Good to have him on the level, but I'm kinda shocked two Warlocks was more dangerous than a Lord of Outer Night and his minions. Goes to show that wizards with prep time are the most dangerous beings alive, and being Lawbreakers only makes them more deadly.
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More dangerous than the situation Morgan and Co were in before you arrived, you know when they were successfully hunkering down under a veil.
 
TheGrape said:
The Blackstaff is probably the 2nd most powerful Wizard alive, after the Merlin and before Morgan. Good to have him on the level, but I'm kinda shocked two Warlocks was more dangerous than a Lord of Outer Night and his minions. Goes to show that wizards with prep time are the most dangerous beings alive, and being Lawbreakers only makes them more deadly.
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Powerful is such a vague and arbitrary metric. I personally think that the black staff is the most personally dangerous wizard alive. Like if you want a great warding scheme or the like the Merlin is likely your man and he is also great in a fight, but if you want some people dead the Blackstaff is the hands down winner.
 
BoredMan said:
He does not need that ability so stop exaggerating. If he and co have access to your mind and can alter it they can simply increase the chances of you commiting black magic of your own accord.
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That's the basis for immediate action isn't it?

Making people more likely to go warlock in general as a long term thing would have the noticeable effect of causing more people to go nuts without planning how to do it quietly.

I'm making two related claims here.

1) Long term secret recruitment is one thing, but poisoning his victims with what's essentially crazy juice shouldn't be viable to hide even if he could actually do it. Given how paranoid they're being in general entertaining that level of risk is antithetical to their established tactics anyway.

2) Short term if he could spike a warlock bomb instead of exerting less drastic level of influence his plans up to this point should've been different.

Ivar said:
We're...not in canon. In canon, he doesn't have support from the imported Nephandi archmage from Mage.
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The conceit of the quest is that this is still the DF. Things couldn't have ended up in the start state we had for the quest if major changes to the setting changed how people would act.

The alternative is people forgetting their powers up until Molly exalting reminded them of what they could do.


Degorium said:
I think we may be talking past each other a little bit. False Springs beckons doesn't just help future warlocks it also helps past warlocks and even helps current warlocks. Your plan is good for both preventing future warlocks and helping current non warlocks not become warlocks. Yogs plan also helps on the same point in a different way. Ideally we would do both but false Springs beckons allows us to help both our Minions that we currently already have any warlocks that might be made before we can make either of yours or yogs splendors and allows us to help more people simply because fall Springs beckons works on any and every debilitating condition not just warlockism.









The facts of the matter is we have servants who would actively benefit from false Springs beckon we could also have more servants in the future who would also actively benefit from it. Past warlocks as stated have no reason to ever turn themselves in even if they are exactly one time offenders which Believe It or Not leads to festering issues which are not mitigated by Your solution and only partially mitigated By yogs.

I don't believe Peabody or anyone can just scoop out a Wizard's will and make them cast dark magic but that's completely tangential to the point of what's false Springs beckons does and what it can do for both our servants and people that we can get within our service for a Time.
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The current discussion is about what we do here and now though. FSB as a warlock solution in general is different discussion than our immediate expectations for this situation.
 
BronzeTongue said:
That's the basis for immediate action isn't it?

Making people more likely to go warlock in general as a long term thing would have the noticeable effect of causing more people to go nuts without planning how to do it quietly.

I'm making two related claims here.

1) Long term secret recruitment is one thing, but poisoning his victims with what's essentially crazy juice shouldn't be viable to hide even if he could actually do it. Given how paranoid they're being in general entertaining that level of risk is antithetical to their established tactics anyway.

2) Short term if he could spike a warlock bomb instead of exerting less drastic level of influence his plans up to this point should've been different.


The conceit of the quest is that this is still the DF. Things couldn't have ended up in the start state we had for the quest if major changes to the setting changed how people would act.

The alternative is people forgetting their powers up until Molly exalting reminded them of what they could do.



The current discussion is about what we do here and now though. FSB as a warlock solution in general is different discussion than our immediate expectations for this situation.
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It really isn't. Carlos was worried about his subordinates possibly becoming warlocks that's inherently a future phenomenon not a right now thing. The fact that we could get FSB to help warlocks that are made relatively soon and then make one of the two wonders to help with preventing any more warlocks means they are complementary. Which is kind of what I was getting at they are complementary Solutions because as far as I can tell Your solution doesn't deal with the problem of warlocks that were made before it was. Preventing future warlocks is good I'm not going to deny that but both yours and yog plan do that and full Springs beckons allows for the possible recapture of past warlocks without needing to murder them. Which I think is what I was getting at but in case it was lost in the sauce is really my point we have servants underlings friends and possibly warlocks who don't want to get killed by the white Council that could all benefit from having false Springs beckons which means it's value is infinitely more than just as a warlock suppressant.
 
Grabbing an immediate solution that will still be useful is not a bad decision. Regardless, trap:
-Counterambus?
By which i mean, teleport an empty vehicel in, looks like transports us, filled with nasty for ambushers(it was written wrong, but i had an idea while looking at the word)
-Squirrel?!
Meaning have a loud distraction a second before we go through
-Sneak in
Just follow the plan
-MY NAME IS ALPHARIUS
Have some of our agents take on the guises of identified enemys and join the "ambush", which we purosefully trigger.Maximum chaos. Not most efficient, but most fun.
 
DragonParadox said:
Another nod. "Hellfire only came out when I noticed the time bubble trap they'd made for me."

"Huh... you don't really hear about many warlocks breaking the Sixth Law," Carlos pipes up putting on a nonsense facade, well worn by the looks of it.
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Is that actually lawbreaking? It seems like a grey zone to the tune of animal necromancy to me.

The law says "thou shall not swim against the current of time": that is to say, no time travel. Locally changing how it flows isn't traveling strictly speaking.

Attacking McCoy like this is a clear admission of involvement, but still.
Degorium said:
It really isn't. Carlos was worried about his subordinates possibly becoming warlocks that's inherently a future phenomenon not a right now thing. The fact that we could get FSB to help warlocks that are made relatively soon and then make one of the two wonders to help with preventing any more warlocks means they are complementary. Which is kind of what I was getting at they are complementary Solutions because as far as I can tell Your solution doesn't deal with the problem of warlocks that were made before it was. Preventing future warlocks is good I'm not going to deny that but both yours and yog plan do that and full Springs beckons allows for the possible recapture of past warlocks without needing to murder them. Which I think is what I was getting at but in case it was lost in the sauce is really my point we have servants underlings friends and possibly warlocks who don't want to get killed by the white Council that could all benefit from having false Springs beckons which means it's value is infinitely more than just as a warlock suppressant.
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It's the rationale that @Yog directly gave for his plan.

Yog said:
First, the issue, as I understand it is that a number of wardens and other white council members were subverted and essentially forced, or at least coerced by magical means, to become warlocks (ie to break the laws), or will be forced to become such during this crisis, as the final f*ck you to white council by the conspirators and their patrons
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There's nothing to say we shouldn't address this problem in more detail, but the context of this discussion is the immediate complications of being at war with people who will use mind magic to infiltrate and assault your people.

Maybe I'm not fully addressing the entire spectrum of the warlock problem, but the current plans wholly ignore the mind magic violation aspect of it.

We could build a splendor, work through like four concurrent political flusterclucks, and still have nothing at hand to deal with people being magically subverted in the manner that raised these concerns in the first place.

edit:

Autocorrect
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Is that actually lawbreaking? It seems like a grey zone to the tune of animal necromancy to me.

The law says "thou shall not swim against the current of time": that is to say, no time travel. Locally changing how it flows isn't traveling strictly speaking.

Attacking McCoy like this is a clear admission of involvement, but still.
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The trap if it had worked properly would have almost killed him and then rebooted his personal time-line... except for keeping the memories of being mutilated over and over and over again, that is technically sending someone else swimming against the currents of time.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Is that actually lawbreaking? It seems like a grey zone to the tune of animal necromancy to me.

The law says "thou shall not swim against the current of time": that is to say, no time travel. Locally changing how it flows isn't traveling strictly speaking.

Attacking McCoy like this is a clear admission of involvement, but still.


It's the rationale that @Yog directly have for his plan.



There's nothing to say we shouldn't address this problem in more detail, but the context of this discussion is the immediate complications of being at war with people who will use mind magic to infiltrate and assault your people.

Maybe I'm not fully addressing the entire spectrum of the warlock problem, but the current plans wholly ignore the mind magic violation aspect of it.

We could build a splendor, work through like four concurrent political flusterclucks, and still have nothing at hand to deal with people being magically subverted in the manner that raised these concerns in the first place.
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See this is what English teachers are talking about when they say preface your point. This is completely my fault. I was of the understanding that you were against false Springs beckons not just yogs splendor which is partially because of your vote. To my eye both of yours and yogs Solutions are good future Solutions but do nothing to help recapture or assist us in the moment. So I was mostly engaging with false Springs beckon there's also the fact that I agreed with you that I don't believe Peabody or dark Mages can scoop out and mages will and make them a lawbreaker.
 
fictionfan said:
Powerful is such a vague and arbitrary metric. I personally think that the black staff is the most personally dangerous wizard alive. Like if you want a great warding scheme or the like the Merlin is likely your man and he is also great in a fight, but if you want some people dead the Blackstaff is the hands down winner.
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The Blackstaff is meant to hunt down wizard-turned-warlocks and the worst foes of the White Council, Morgan is meant to be the strongest Warden and thus best at fighting anti-wizard enemies, the Merlin is supposed to be the strongest wizard who can hold the Senior Council (and thus both the Gatekeeper and the Blackstaff) accountable if they go warlock.

So they all have overlapping specialities that make it hard to say who'll win in a fight, much less who's the most dangerous.

But I'll say the 3 of them are definitely the most renowned wizards in the White Council for those in the know.
 
DragonParadox said:
The trap if it had worked properly would have almost killed him and then rebooted his personal time-line... except for keeping the memories of being mutilated over and over and over again, that is technically sending someone else swimming against the currents of time.
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Dude almost got grey boy-ed, fucking hell...

DragonParadox said:
"I can a Hunt of Ankou's Hounds,"
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Missing word
DragonParadox said:
I'm very good with a riffle and
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Extra f in riffle, which apparently is an actual word.
 
DragonParadox said:
"If it's some kind of free pass yeah I can see why they wouldn't. Jesus Christ!" he shakes his head as you resist the reflexive urge to tell him off for taking the Lord's name in vain. Given the tone that's more like a prayer.
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What are people's thoughts and reactions to knowing that Molly with all of her infernal everything is still a devout and practicing Catholic?

I remember how confused Mouse was seeing us with Michael.
 
Can we just fell form the Sky instead with teleport?? They will never guess this type of attack because for wizards that requires Willpower.
 
ImBuda said:
Can we just fell form the Sky instead with teleport?? They will never guess this type of attack because for wizards that requires Willpower.
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You can, but the problem is you do not have a means to be unnoticed flying for more than a scene per mote of essence and flying to Scotland would take considerably longer even when you consider all Molly's charms.
 
DragonParadox said:
The trap if it had worked properly would have almost killed him and then rebooted his personal time-line... except for keeping the memories of being mutilated over and over and over again, that is technically sending someone else swimming against the currents of time.
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I guess that would be the crazy showing, cause that sounds like giving an opponent powerful enough to be worth trapping a potential escape vector.
DragonParadox said:
[] Seems like the best you're going to get, show up fifteen, twenty miles from the Old Town and then make your way to one of the entrances
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If we go through Sanctuary to get there can we have people come out with equipment and some personal transport?


Also some guns since our death rays are better than firearms for this purpose.
 
DragonParadox said:
You can, but the problem is you do not have a means to be unnoticed flying for more than a scene per mote of essence and flying to Scotland would take considerably longer even when you consider all Molly's charms.
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Cant we just jump from a plane Or another flying machine from our hell?? Just use veils to stop the normies from noticing
 
ImBuda said:
Cant we just jump from a plane Or another flying machine from our hell?? Just use veils to stop the normies from noticing
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One veils are on moving objects concentration spells and difficult ones the faster and larger the object is.
Two wizard magic is terrible for most technology their Tech Bane is their own magic lashing out not some inherent quality of technology and Magic.
Three veils have to be made with the intent of hiding a lot to not have normies notice a plane flying over them we're talking sonar, radar, military security equipment, possibly flight paths just a lot of shit needs to be covered this is all on top of the fact wizards would need to be concentrating on all of that information without breaking the plane doing that.
Four that would take forever to set up. Just the casting of a spell on a plane in general is kind of a long undertaking something because of how large they are.
Five we don't have a way of getting back down to the ground stealthily not with a large group anyway.

Edit: there's probably more I'm missing too.
 
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Is attempted law breaking even a thing? Like if you try to kill someone with magic, but fail are you guilty of breaking the first law? Same thing with attempting to time travel.
 
How much do we care about people seeing us? Cause that sounds like Arthur's problem more than ours. Not that we should deliberately make a scene, but strangle lights in the sky and all that are something the council's media contacts can clean up later.
 
[X] Seems like the best you're going to get, show up fifteen, twenty miles from the Old Town and then make your way to one of the entrances
 
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