What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


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@HeroCooky just curious, do we have any information on how capable the Mashan ships are? Did our scouts ever manage to observe their battles against the Chaos warships?

Also, the Mashan's holy banners and other religious icons- can we tell if they repell Chaos in general or just specific portions of them?

Would we be able to tell if there's any general protection against Chaos corruption?
You believe individual Mashan Ships to be about 60-70% as effective as yours per class. They have a tendency to use primarily Lances and some ships use some form of Artillery Lance that your Techpriests and technicians can't quite figure out how it functions.

As far as your Choir can determine, the banners and Sigils the Mashan use do not repel Chaos, but moreso "dampen" the Warp around themselves slightly. Like putting a thin towel over a lit lamp, light still comes through, but it is weaker than without.
Honestly, I'd like to know if we even encountered any notable Chaos Ships in that campaign, or if it was all SDF stuff.
There were some unique configurations, like pure boarding ones, but nothing that caught the eyes of the navy.
 
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Scheduled vote count started by HeroCooky on Jun 5, 2024 at 1:06 PM, finished with 56 posts and 31 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Yes, but Actually No, with Slightly More Generosity, And No World-Splitting--Fixed Version
    -[X] First, apologize to the Mashan delegation for the unintended insult. And give some context about why the Federation offered what it did (the general poor state of the galaxy in terms of shit being fucked). Then politely ask for trade contacts, especially with the context of our ISCs.
    -[X] Second, give context for the Federation's entry into the war into 621- the Neon Protectorate and its fall and the sheer slog that it had been to push through to 621, as well as outlining the fleet & ground force commitments that were made. In that context, we were a major player in the war.
    -[X] Third, explain the origin of the Federation and its relationship with the Lamenters space marine chapter, as well as our continued support of them over the centuries.
    -[X] All of that said, Straight up refuse all demands for Yivv. Have the Temple Authority back you, or try to win their support in this. Similarly, Zentraneum is not theirs, even if it's not yours either in the sense of exploitation.
    -[X] The Alliance can have Kalikrax, and Weznicritt.
    -[X] Offer to aid in their reconstruction (the Alliance) with an action.
    -[X] Civilian Trade with Shipwright's is good, and should proceed.
    -[X] Embassy with both good.
    -[X] The Temple Authority can have Murrs, they've offered the better price, also suggest them backing our insistence on holding Yivv and the neutrality/protectorate stuff with Zentraneum, or at least try to use the agreement to surrender Murrs to them to spur cooperation.
    [X] Plan: Good is not nice enough to allow you to spit on sacrifices
    -[X] Embassy exchange with both is good
    -[X] Trade also is good.
    -[X] Federation has no issues with the fate of Weznicritt and Kalikrax
    -[X] Support the Mashan Authority's compromise offer over Murrs.
    -[X] Say sorry to Mashan Authority; you meant no insult, just a worry over how your fellow men would act after being occupied by chaos. We experienced and foiled many of their plots after they successfully destroyed the subsector-wide power, Neon, after we defeated the chaos' regular forces. And using the experience you gained dealing with said collapse and corruption that followed you wanted to offer a hand to fellow sane power in the stars, so the post-war transition is easier. After all, victory on the battlefield is only the first part of a full triumph against chaos. After dealing with it once before, you have the infrastructure to help bring those on the verge of eternal damnation back into the light, and moving the survivors of chaos' madness wouldn't be a problem for you.
    -[X] In exchange for Yivv system Federation is ready to help Aliance rebuild the destruction of plants that have fallen to the forces of the great enemy.
    -[X] Given that locals of Zetraneum aren't interested in being colonised and Alliance didn't establish a long-term presence in the system Federation, sees claims of locals as more valid and is ready to defend their right to choose their own path as long as it doesn't involve chaos.
    -[X] The disregard of the ultimate sacrifice of [whatever number of people 31% of our ground forces is] is extremely distasteful, the dismissal of how crippling the logistics of the enemy, especially given their plans for the major ritual, is not something we expected of brave people who fought the Great Enemy for centuries.
    -[X] We are, of course, happy that they acknowledge the sacrifices of great warriors who are Lamenters; it would be outrageous if they didn't. But the Lamenters are warriors, and aside from tech marines, they aren't craftsmen; aside from one dreadnaught armour, every piece of armour, every neophyte, every bolter and every round came from the grateful Federation. Including the ships, they flew to the battle.
    [X] Plan: Yes, but Actually No, with Slightly More Generosity, And No World-Splitting
    -[X] First, apologize to the Mashan delegation for the unintended insult. And give some context about why the Federation offered what it did (the general poor state of the galaxy in terms of shit being fucked). Then politely ask for trade contacts, especially with the context of our ISCs.
    -[X] Second, give context for the Federation's entry into the war into 621- the Neon Protectorate and its fall and the sheer slog that it had been to push through to 621, as well as outlining the fleet & ground force commitments that were made. In that context, we were a major player in the war.
    -[X] Third, explain the origin of the Federation and its relationship with the Lamenters space marine chapter, as well as our continued support of them over the centuries.
    -[X] All of that said, Straight up refuse all demands for Yivv. Have the Temple Authority back you, or try to win their support in this. Similarly, Zentraneum is not theirs, even if it's not yours either in the sense of exploitation.
    -[X] The Alliance can have Kalikrax, and Weznicritt.
    -[X] Offer to aid in their reconstruction (the Alliance) with an action.
    -[X] Civilian Trade with Shipwright's is good, and should proceed.
    -[X] Embassy with both good.
    -[X] The Temple Authority can have Murrs, they've offered the better price, also suggest them backing our insistence on holding Yivv and the neutrality/protectorate stuff with Zentraneum, or at least try to use the agreement to surrender Murrs to them to spur cooperation.
    [X] Plan Cooperation, Conciliation, and Compromise
    -[X] Support the return of the Weznicritt and Kalikrax systems to the Shipwrights Alliance
    -[X] Offer a compromise for the Yivv system - the Shipwrights Alliance can have claim and control over Love's Huff and Broken Line, but the Federation claims control over the planet Fixxy, its moon Tom, and theie orbitals
    --[X] The Federation is guaranteed free movement to and from Fixxy and Tom through the system
    --[X] A space station shall be constructed in the system with joint ownership between the Alliance and Federation, to allow for coordination and future cooperation
    -[X] A Civilian Trade Agreement shall be signed between the Federation and the Shipwright Alliance
    -[X] Support the Mashan Temple Authority's control over the Murrs system, in exchange for allowing the Alliance to send a recovery mission for the Holy Data-Banks and offer a minimum of Refined Metals or a set percentage of all mined metals within Murrs (whichever is higher) for a century
    -[X] Reaffirm our own claim to Zetraneum
    --[X] Offer the Alliance an advisory role in the uplifting of the people of Zetraneum and the right to establish cultural centers to explore and celebrate their shared history
    -[X] The Shipwright's Alliance, Federation, and the Mashan Temple Authority will establish embassies with each other
    -[X] Offer an official apology to the Mashan Temple Authority for insinuating they could not look after the needs of their human populations
    -[X] Share the full casualties sustained by the Federation during our short, but pivotal, contribution in the war against Chaos
    -[X] Explain the specific relationship between the Lamenters and Federation to the Alliance and Mashan
    --[X] Bluntly state that the Lamenters were sent to Kapion's Hope at the explicit request of the Federation as part of our overall operation, and could just as easily have been regular Federation ground forces instead if planned differently
 
628.M42 - Three Billion Martyrs
With a continuation of the Conference, so too comes an apology and explanation to the Mashan Temple Authority regarding the unintentional insult given to them. The idea that any non-human species would interact with humanity on any level beyond utter genocidal hatred has long since been instilled into nearly every human culture and polity for well over ten millennia. The uncountable number of xenocides that the Imperium's xenophobic stance in both politics and faith created, urged on by cycles of violence and despair, has not helped matters for those humans who interacted in a non-hostile matter with Xenos. Even those who tried to deal fairly were eventually crushed or forced to act in hatred and betrayal against those they once treated fairly. The history of the Kil'drabi is rife with such interactions. As far as the Glimmering Federation is aware, ex-Imperial worlds and populations cling tightly to the stances of the Imperium and Ecclesiarchy even now.

In return, the Authority apologizes for its overreaction to a miscommunication and agrees to leave the matter to the side so that both of our people can walk into the future unburdened by undeserved feelings. A general agreement to trade, in a more limited form that disallows Federation Traders to leave the stations they would dock at to sell their wares, is also proposed and shortly enters negotiations between the two delegations.

As for the underlying belief that the Glimmering Federation was not involved in the war to a major degree, the diplomats of the delegation turn to long, grueling, and soul-crushing sessions of meetings with fine food and drink between all involved parties or one-on-one talks, minds and opinions swayed one kilo gained at a time, laying a groundwork for goodwill and far more hospitable treatings between the three present nations in the future.

That being said, the Shipwright's Alliance did not drop their demand for Yivv. The Glimmering Federation didn't budge on that matter either.

Not when the Alliance offers to relinquish all claims on Zetraneum. Negotiations continue, and moods sour as quickly as it becomes clear that the Alliance knows something that they should not. It is suspected when they offer to give up half their claims in the system. And then it is all but confirmed when they offer to relinquish all claims, for all planets, except for Tom, which they seek to purify and turn into a cemetery world for their people, the bones of three billion martyrs and dead heroes a fertilizer that had long ago been made into a rallying cry for their people.

Weeks go by, and it all ends when the Shipwright's Alliance outright declares that they know about the Auramite within Tom. They know that this is why the Federation does not wish to relinquish a system over a Sub-Sector away from their nation's Core Systems, and they make no attempt to hide the fact that they do not wish for it. They demand that planet. The Federation can have the rest of the system, but that metal is theirs by right of spilled blood and the weight of sacrifice. It is vital for the construction of Irrita Compass Needles, something they offer no explanation beyond saying that 'It aids our ships in the traversal of the Warp.'

It is when the delegations excuse themselves for a remission after that statement that, in an ugly twist of diplomacy, both the Shipwright's Alliance and the Mashan Temple Authority approach the Glimmering Federation with offers of compromise.

The Authority does not speak in honeyed words but plainly. Auramite is a powerfully meaningful metal for their people and is all but required to create several essential religious items. Their terms are simple: 50% of all mined Auramite, and they will, if needed, force the Alliance to back down from their claim over the system.

It is unspoken that they are willing to offer the same to the Alliance, though targeted against the Federation.

And yet, the Shipwright's Alliance approaches with two other solutions on their own. In a meeting both tense and filled with a thread of cold anger, the Alliance's head delegate offers to...relinquish their claims upon Yivv. Provided that they gain something equally important in return. "If we leave this Conference without that system," they explained slowly, with a stony facade, "with news that you will soon begin to mine atop the graves of three billion martyrs and fallen heroes....well. People are unreasonable at the best of times. And we may be unable to stop all who decide to let action follow outrage."

This is, of course, with the assumption that they are left without something to soothe and show their people of equal value to the Auramite soon to be mined there and the desecration of a planet blessed by the sacrifice of heroes.

Like, say, this oddly comprehensive list of technologies that could be transferred over to them, or a delegation of twenty Choirs sent for one-and-a-half-centuries to teach the psykers of the Alliance the safe(-ish) use of their powers...and how to navigate the Warp.


What Now?
(6-Hour Moratorium)
[] (Write-In)

-The Shipwright's Alliance gains Kalikrax and Weznicritt.
-The Shipwright's Alliance can recover their Holy Data-Banks from Murrs.
-The Mashan Temple Authority gains Murrs and Avethread.
-The Glimmering Federation gains Lethysan, Terrore, and Zetraneum.
-The Glimmering Federation offers 1 Action's worth of aid to the Shipwright's Alliance.*
-Limited Civilian Trade with the Mashan Temple Authority will be established.
-Civilian Trade with the Shipwright's Alliance will be established.*
-Embassies will be established between all nations.


*May be removed due to recent circumstances.
AN: Man, ya really didn't think finding Auramite would be such a headache, did ya? :V
Also, the Alliance ain't lying about Yivv being home to three billion graves from their war against Chaos.
 
Ah, of course.

Well, that's fair, how irritating though that what we got from a perk, they Just Got. But I guess it would make sense if they found it through some other means or Chaos leaked it as a final fare-thee well.

What technologies do they want? I don't see an issue with seconding them some Choirs, or some tech. But if they're going to demand "I want everything for this"... Well, Auramite's nice, but it's not That nice, not when a single deposit can be measured by the kilo.
 
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Ah, of course.

Well, that's fair, how irritating though that what we got from a perk, they Just Got. But I guess it would make sense if they found it through some other means or Chaos leaked it as a final fare-thee well.

What technologies do they want? I don't see an issue with seconding them some Choirs, or some tech. But if they're going to demand "I want everything for this"... Well, Auramite's nice, but it's not That nice, not when a single deposit can be measured by the kilo.
Oh, they knew about it from, ya know, records of the stuff being found before Chaos dropkicked them into oblivion.
As for what technologies they want, well. Basically enough to get them into a High Imperial classification. Note that I wrote "into" and not anything else.
 
Fuck, I don't have any ideas on how to solve it except that deal with Authority is not something we should take, it would be bad for alliance relationship with both of us which could cause them to grow bitter with time.
 
[] Plan: Calling Bluffs.
-[] If they really are so concerned about the billions of dead, and it does seem they are, then instead of an action to help the Alliance in material goods and reconstruction, then instead one to help build the monuments and use our technology to make such a cemetery possible and otherwise set things up on that planet within the next two decades, and before that point leave it undisturbed.
-[] Mining of Auramite can be joint, with both sides having the right to research and use quantities of it, to be recorded by each other. Leave open the possibility of them getting the lion's share of it, subject to use-calculations and all that fancy stuff for the needs required/etc, but weighted somewhat in their favor, but not all the way.
-[] You said the rest of the system is ours? Thanks, we'll take it.

[] Plan: Angry Bluff Calling (Auramite Abandonment)
-[] Very well, you can have the planet if you want it so much. As we will instead have more work to do on our own matters, the offer of Civilian Aid is withdrawn. We have other uses of our time.
-[] You said the rest of the system is ours? Thanks, we'll take it.
 
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Oh, they knew about it from, ya know, records of the stuff being found before Chaos dropkicked them into oblivion.
As for what technologies they want, well. Basically enough to get them into a High Imperial classification. Note that I wrote "into" and not anything else.

Mmm, so they want uplift to the point where we started, basically?
 
Is auramite really that valuable to us? I can see why these guys want it so bad, but is it really worth it to us at this point?

Not that I'm opposed to giving tech or psyker training to an anti-Chaos faction, but I feel the bad blood over these rocks is already too much.
 
They probably settled the planet to find it. We might find someone equally cool in our upcoming colonization.

Two options as I see it - give up Tom, keep the rest of the system, or send 20 choirs over for 15 turns. Either would be a good resolution imo. We don't have a specific need for the Auramite.

I don't want to take the Temple Authority's deal. That's just seeding tensions.

Maybe we do both, then trade for the excess auramite once they don't need it for warp travel? I like the idea of of their psyker tradition being based on ours, makes integration easier later.
 
Is auramite really that valuable to us? I can see why these guys want it so bad, but is it really worth it to us at this point?

Not that I'm opposed to giving tech to an anti-Chaos faction, but I feel the bad blood over these rocks is already too much.

It's valuable, but it's not that valuable. Not in the barely-above-trace quantities they have.
 
Ah, of course.

Well, that's fair, how irritating though that what we got from a perk, they Just Got. But I guess it would make sense if they found it through some other means or Chaos leaked it as a final fare-thee well.

What technologies do they want? I don't see an issue with seconding them some Choirs, or some tech. But if they're going to demand "I want everything for this"... Well, Auramite's nice, but it's not That nice, not when a single deposit can be measured by the kilo.
The Choirs involve teaching them the melodies and songs.
Explicitly including the warp navigation song.
 
Hold on. Would the Psykana trade even work? Our psykana is based on faith in the Star Child. We can warp travel in large part because of it. So like if they aren't worshippers then what happens
 
... You know, now might be a good time to backpedal from Yivv and see if we can get concessions elsewhere. If they're willing to Ride or Die on this topic to the point of basically starting a war over it to at least deny it to us, then we might be able to get a great concession elsewhere for it.

The question is... Uh, what could they even offer us that'd be worth it?
 
They probably settled the planet to find it. We might find someone equally cool in our upcoming colonization.

Two options as I see it - give up Tom, keep the rest of the system, or send 20 choirs over for 15 turns. Either would be a good resolution imo. We don't have a specific need for the Auramite.

I don't want to take the Temple Authority's deal. That's just seeding tensions.

Maybe we do both, then trade for the excess auramite once they don't need it for warp travel? I like the idea of of their psyker tradition being based on ours, makes integration easier later.

Yeah, I support that. My only question is whether we should bother to still give them the Civilian Aid considering their playing hardball and demanding more from us. I think we just let them do their own thing and go back to being ten times larger than them and busy with more important things than these Not Horrible Monsters but Kinda Grasping Jerks.

... You know, now might be a good time to backpedal from Yivv and see if we can get concessions elsewhere. If they're willing to Ride or Die on this topic to the point of basically starting a war over it to at least deny it to us, then we might be able to get a great concession elsewhere for it.

The question is... Uh, what could they even offer us that'd be worth it?

Nothing. They don't matter, and so if they want to commit on this, we give them up Tom, or maybe even the whole System to soften the blow, but withdraw any Reconstruction Aid. Yes, it's worth probably several turns of all their actions, but they're the ones acting like they're in charge here.

Surely they'll be fine on their own, then!
 
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... You know, now might be a good time to backpedal from Yivv and see if we can get concessions elsewhere. If they're willing to Ride or Die on this topic to the point of basically starting a war over it to at least deny it to us, then we might be able to get a great concession elsewhere for it.

The question is... Uh, what could they even offer us that'd be worth it?
Extremely preferential trade deals and preaching rights and getting half of the auramite...either or
 
Question @HeroCooky

What kind of benefits would actually matter to us that we could bargain for to withdraw from Yivv and cede it? Would it functionally just be a Pure Loss for us or what?

And yeah, Mashan is absolutely trying to Divide and Conquer here. They found a wedge point and are aggressively backing the weaker party. Either that or they just Plain Don't Believe our story, which isn't much better.
 
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