Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

OOC: I was going to roll through this, but then I realized how tight your Essence budget is for this and the fact that you cannot stop to take a breather after each one
If we turn the Crown towards some Essence generating questions, can we stretch them across enough time to count as 3 scenes? Because then it's pay one mote to generate two.
I'm picturing using each of the infested as a focus before we exorcise them.

My ideas for questions are
  • How can we attack Nemesis itself instead of merely its expendable infested pawns?
  • What would it take to bar the Outsiders entry through the Outer Gates? Not to prevent people from trying to summon them but instead to interfere with summoning or other forms of intrusion from working. (Presumably it would be a feat of epic proprotions to craft such a thing)
  • What long term strategic countermeasures have the Outsiders taken against the Oblivion War and the Archive's attempt to crush all knowledge of them?
 
If we turn the Crown towards some Essence generating questions, can we stretch them across enough time to count as 3 scenes? Because then it's pay one mote to generate two.
I'm picturing using each of the infested as a focus before we exorcise them.

My ideas for questions are
  • How can we attack Nemesis itself instead of merely its expendable infested pawns?
  • What would it take to bar the Outsiders entry through the Outer Gates? Not to prevent people from trying to summon them but instead to interfere with summoning or other forms of intrusion from working. (Presumably it would be a feat of epic proprotions to craft such a thing)
  • What long term strategic countermeasures have the Outsiders taken against the Oblivion War and the Archive's attempt to crush all knowledge of them?

The whole thing is one scene so you can get 2 Essence that way.
 
OOC: I was going to roll through this, but then I realized how tight your Essence budget is for this and the fact that you cannot stop to take a breather after each one
Doesn't Murder is Meat help, like a lot? It lets us regain 2 motes per ritual, essentially reducing the cost to 3 motes. If we add occult excellency, that's 4 motes per ritual, and we are still left with 2 motes to spare.
 
Just normal ice that happens to be black? That's fine, it costs her nothing.
Kincaid he takes cash if we whisper to him 10 grand no matter what for accepting it 200 grand for having to do it. If we come out before Titania he shoots at us. He has no reason to care about the FAE he's a mercenary he works for money and what the archive doesn't know won't hurt her.
 
Doesn't Murder is Meat help, like a lot? It lets us regain 2 motes per ritual, essentially reducing the cost to 3 motes. If we add occult excellency, that's 4 motes per ritual, and we are still left with 2 motes to spare.

If you pull it off

Kincaid he takes cash if we whisper to him 10 grand no matter what for accepting it 200 grand for having to do it. If we come out before Titania he shoots at us. He has no reason to care about the FAE he's a mercenary he works for money and what the archive doesn't know won't hurt her.

He would love to, but it would endanger his charge to take that job right now and he's a professional.
 
Couple days late, but its been sitting in a tab for a couple days.
What's the number have to do with the point I was making? It's a broad and deep ability that causes serious harm to the opposition in a way that causes them to respond with greater force at different angles. Iku is here with his army because of SCE.

You didn't address my point on Mab either. This sort of ability isn't unprecedented or particularly unfair, it just has different limits.

Maybe with the vampires, I wound need to check again, but it doesn't really change much. Garden variety vampires using only their native powers aren't exactly supposed to be peers to the exalted. An elder who's learned nothing else in their very long life is an idiot anyway.

We paid enough for two ancient sorcery spells, a hell customization point, and our signature choice for this. You can credibly threaten to end the planet with stuff like CCG, so I don't see this as out of line. Other solaroids get always active effects that break fundamental parts of the system for less. Which, as you've pointed out, we won't be able to avoid interacting with forever.

It's also limited use. We can only rely on it once an arc, and squishies make maximum nonsense hard to arrange.

This incidentally should sound familiar, because it's describing the same fundamental dynamic as mote tapping and alternative challenges presented on the topic of exalts being really hard to kill:
Broad ability, not an armykiller as far as Im aware.

Iku Turso (his initials are IT. Huh) is here because apparently he was dumb enough to believe a proposal by Outsiders. Nemesis and his faction apparently talked him into this because their agents/puppets were outed and captured; SCE does not have anything to do with it because Titania could still have them all killed to eliminate the threat.

Their victims are important, but once outed they are much less capable of doing harm as agents of influence, and none of them are critical the way a Queen was. And its not like the previous Summer Lady wasnt killed some four or five years ago because of a Nemesis infection; the Court soldiered on.

===
Mab can twist time in the heart of her power. So can Maeve.
The Mothers are even more powerful, as we see in Cold Days where Dresden's entire trip to the Mothers' cottage and then the Outer Gates happened literally between seconds in the real world, even though to him it took much longer.

But Mab cannot do that in the middle of Summer, or even in normal reality.
Her environmental control powers are similarly vast, but neither absolute or instant.

When Arctis Tor came under attack in Proven Guilty, she didnt simply show up and freeze all the attacking soldiers in their tracks, or trap them in a time warp.
And this translates to other high-tier Sidhe.

The Leanansidhe couldnt walk into Chitchen Itza and simply freeze all the mooks.
Summer Lady Lily couldnt passively wipe out an army of Red Court vampires in Proven Guilty by changing the environment either, or trapping them in time until the sun came up. Neither Summer Lady Sarissa nor Winter Lady Molly could simply drop a shaping effect on the Fomorian armies in Battle Grounds either.

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In the Dresden Files, mooks and minor combatants are supposed to be relevant.

If you slip, if you are careless, if you are unlucky, they WILL kill or cripple you. Or distract you enough that a seriousface threat gets the drop on you. Two Summer Ladies and one Winter Lady, and the previous Winter Knight all learned this the hard way.
Winter Knight Dresden almost had to learn this the hard way himself at the hands of a pixie.

===
We got other benefits for all those choices.
Its not like reality warping is the base and only benefit from this.

===
Its not as limited as you believe.

The first shintai activation is automatic, but we get at least 4 extra bites at that apple in a story arc as the DC scales up to 9.
And as far as Im aware, you can spend Willpower for an autosuccess on an Essence roll; significantly raising your costs yes, but its still an option.

This is an ExWoD crossover with the Dresden Files.



It doesn't trivialize the setting because other people don't have to fight us in a white room and we have to pick when we're going to burn it. This situation is about optimal for expressing our hell, but we're not going to have a free range setup every time we want to do so, or be able to afford to use it at every opportunity that presents itself.

I don't really understand your argument about other charms either; we have something like four that make bakemono and most of them only have variations in function. RVD steals teleporting from BME. Our various difficulty reducers do the same thing at different costs and under different conditions, but stack on each other.

The kit isn't designed to have one optimal tool for each individual application, but variations that have different flavors to them to pick from and play against one another in your build.

It should also be highlighted that this isn't undefeatable even faced head on. Unlike many supernal effects you can block what we're doing or survive it by other means.

For example; the FCF doesn't have geological activity. It's a hemisphere with impossible metal pillars jutting through it, not a normal planet. We can't do volcanoes or anything not in theme with what we built.

People like Mab and her elite Winter monsters wouldn't give a shit about the stunt I'm proposing, and many other things we could pull, as a result.

We could use the lightning ring, but we also can't survive that without using TLF ourselves*.

This is where the other AoEs could come in. For use when Shintai is exhausted, when we're fighting someone immune to what we're capable of apply, or to double down if we really need the damage. Which would be a lot, but maximum power would require a cumulative 47+ exp and various build slots to pull once an arc if we wanted to go that way.

*Which is really another hidden cost of this tactic: environmental protection charms. It's not like we're immune to the thing by RaW after all.

WHWH is the buy in for passive protection against cold, which requires concessions in the hell build to leverage, and anything else is TLF.

Bringing the buy in to 27 exp, design considerations in our hell including a customization point, and our signature slot.
I cant really agree.
We are essentially invalidating an entire category of threat vectors. And removing a significant tool from the arsenal of our opponents. They all have to consider that minor combatants are ineffective against Molly whenever she kicks it up a notch.

That means that Denarians cant bring cultists or ghouls with them.
That Fae cant bring pixies or hobgoblins, that necromancers cant bring zombies, Cowl cant bring superghouls, Rampires cant use blood slaves, and Blampires cant wield Renfields, darkhounds or even lesser Blacks.

===
Drop that hurricane of iron sand from our Hell among the Fae and see how that turns out.
The only people among the Fae who canonically have anything even vaguely resembling environmental defenses are at the very tip-top of the power scale. As you'll recall from Small Favor, there's even some Fae who will die in light.


We already have TLF for this, and we bought it for other purposes.
Ditto with Without Honor.


Hmm sucks if we can't have this kind of bullshit I feel its part of exalted to just roughshod through almost everything eventually though right? One really shouldn't be playing exalted with fairness in mind there are eventual worldwide affects and stuff if you git gud enough.
Even in Exalted 2E, there was significant opposition that you couldnt simply roll over.
Here, Exalts are lower-powered, and there remains a variety of occult fauna.
Big fish. Big pond.

They have not talked since before the battle of Hastings no.
It just occurs to me that that was a very specific statement on Titania's part.
Havent spoken =/= Havent communicated.
I just realized why we shouldn't have accepted the duel: if we'd let Titania freeze him instead we'd be exorcising him. Now we're killing at least one host DESPITE (implicitly) promising to save the hosts
He wasnt possessed; if he'd been possessed, Molly would have noticed when she killed him.

He was just apparently dumb enough to make a high-stakes deal with an Outsider/number of Outsiders to openly attack a Fae Court in collaboration with an Outsider conspiracy without any guarantees that the other side would hold up their end of the deal, whatever the deal was.

I cant imagine how he expected to survive the inevitable retaliation of the Fae either; that kind of flagrant public violation would have mandated a very public retaliation.

Remember its only about seven months since Summer, specifically the Summer Lady Lily, almost killed the Red King by leading Summer's army to ambush him and his army when they were in a battle with the White Council.
And the Reds did Summer less insult than Iku Turso just did.

Too stupid to live.



@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)What category of reagent did Molly get for killing Iku Turso? What level of Splendor will it support?
2)Was that battle scene a relevant Crown focus? Because if Molly went back to her room to meditate in private, I would assume she had the opportunity to use the Crown to ask some questions.
 
[X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer and dice adder
-[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
--[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening." leaning over to the young seer Molly whispers " Can you conjure me two discs of black ice roughly about the size of my palm and just about as thick? " Taking the silently conjured smoking ice one goes right into the side of the brassiere on her ribs under her left arm the other into the pant leg of her right leg. " Thank you."

Not quite cracked cell circumvention but that should proc both Boiling Seamastery and Without Honor Without Hope. @DragonParadox is this good?
 
VOTE
[X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)



RATIONALE

The opportunity to permakill several shards of Nemesis is not the sort of opportunity that comes by everyday; the weaker it is, the less it can fuck with us and ours. Yes, even if we have to pay for it.
As long as Ivy doesnt demand we provide all the splendors immediately, we can take our time.

Similarly, its simply a bad idea to put a price tag on exorcism.
We dont want to set a precedent where people worry about the cost when there is a potential Nemesis infection; its like charging families for a COVID vaccination in the middle of an epidemic, ensuring that a significant percentage wont pay for it.

Note that part of the reason Mab didnt call for Molly's help dealing with exorcising the other Nemesis plants was because of debt.
 
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@DragonParadox
QUESTION
1)What category of reagent did Molly get for killing Iku Turso? What level of Splendor will it support?
2)Was that battle scene a relevant Crown focus? Because if Molly went back to her room to meditate in private, I would assume she had the opportunity to use the Crown to ask some questions.
  1. Four dots, you cannot get Five without an upgrade, the world had grown thin with the passing of ages, even those parts that are very old indeed.
  2. You guys have set a precedent of not asking questions in full view of Titania and the Archive unless they are distracted. After the battle both of them were paying very close attention to you after that

[X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer and dice adder
-[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
--[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening." leaning over to the young seer Molly whispers " Can you conjure me two discs of black ice roughly about the size of my palm and just about as thick? " Taking the silently conjured smoking ice one goes right into the side of the brassiere on her ribs under her left arm the other into the pant leg of her right leg. " Thank you."

Not quite cracked cell circumvention but that should proc both Boiling Seamastery and Without Honor Without Hope. @DragonParadox is this good?

The cold is fine yeah
 
@DragonParadox quick question can we make reagents for Splendors or Prodigies with Mana manipulation the three through five dot powers of storing magic in Mediums for later use specifically?

Though I imagine it would take a lot of successes and specifically prepared materials to capture enough Mana to replace an Elder vampire or minor deity in splendor crafting but would it be possible at all?
 
@DragonParadox quick question can we make reagents for Splendors or Prodigies with Mana manipulation the three through five dot powers of storing magic in Mediums for later use specifically?

Though I imagine it would take a lot of successes and specifically prepared materials to capture enough Mana to replace an Elder vampire or minor deity in splendor crafting but would it be possible at all?

Mana manipulation cannot do that, it would be like trying to achieve nuclear fusion with by pressing down with your bare hands. Remember it is mortal magic at the end of the day no matter how many successes you get.
 
Mana manipulation cannot do that, it would be like trying to achieve nuclear fusion with by pressing down with your bare hands. Remember it is mortal magic at the end of the day no matter how many successes you get.
Fair enough. It just occurred to me when I saw what those later abilities did they just reminded me of the fluff from the crafting about Gathering the power.
 
VOTE
[X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)



RATIONALE

The opportunity to permakill several shards of Nemesis is not the sort of opportunity that comes by everyday; the weaker it is, the less it can fuck with us and ours. Yes, even if we have to pay for it.
As long as Ivy doesnt demand we provide all the splendors immediately, we can take our time.

Similarly, its simply a bad idea to put a price tag on exorcism.
We dont want to set a precedent where people worry about the cost when there is a potential Nemesis infection; its like charging families for a COVID vaccination in the middle of an epidemic, ensuring that a significant percentage wont pay for it.

Note that part of the reason Mab didnt call for Molly's help dealing with exorcising the other Nemesis plants was because of debt.
I know we don't want to add stipulations but could we at least ask they provide the regents? It would take them like a day to get them.
 
Votes nearly toed.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 15, 2023 at 5:25 AM, finished with 88 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Have the Archive bind them in exchange for one exorcism per shard restrained.
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are excorsised.
    [X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    [X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are exorcised.
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer and dice adder
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening." leaning over to the young seer Molly whispers " Can you conjure me two discs of black ice roughly about the size of my palm and just about as thick? " Taking the silently conjured smoking ice one goes right into the side of the brassiere on her ribs under her left arm the other into the pant leg of her right leg. " Thank you."
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening."
 
So we really need to start bringing our own retinue to these things. We came with two people doing their job for them and their help has to be fuckin paid for goddamn it. I feel for her position and neutrality I really do but Goddamn it if we never conduct business with the archive again it'll be too soon.

It's like negotiating with the Fey except you can't even be mad that you're dealing with an awful person or blame the shit terms of the deal on the person you're dealing with because they are an awful person she's a good girl / ancient entity but she has us over a barrel helping her perform her function and now she's taking us for everything we've got, pain.
 
[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
 
VOTE
[X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)
She'll take exorcisms instead of splendors, which take less time and no reagents to perform.

Why pay the more expensive price for the same service?
So we really need to start bringing our own retinue to these things. We came with two people doing their job for them and their help has to be fuckin paid for goddamn it. I feel for her position and neutrality I really do but Goddamn it if we never conduct business with the archive again it'll be too soon.

It's like negotiating with the Fey except you can't even be mad that you're dealing with an awful person or blame the shit terms of the deal on the person you're dealing with because they are an awful person she's a good girl / ancient entity but she has us over a barrel helping her perform her function and now she's taking us for everything we've got, pain.
Not for nothing but we haven't actually negotiated with her, or rather haven't bartered.

We ask her for something, she asks for the things she'd really really like to have and we keep accepting it unmodified.

Of course she's happy to keep taking splendors as a working currency for as long as we'll keep using them, they're amazing.

My write in for trading exorcisms later for assistance restraining nemesis now is almost one-for-one a trade of heavy magical ritual work, which isn't exactly even but is a lot more fair.
 
She'll take exorcisms instead of splendors, which take less time and no reagents to perform.

Why pay the more expensive price for the same service?

Not for nothing but we haven't actually negotiated with her, or rather haven't bartered.

We ask her for something, she asks for the things she'd really really like to have and we keep accepting it unmodified.

Of course she's happy to keep taking splendors as a working currency for as long as we'll keep using them, they're amazing.

My write in for trading exorcisms later for assistance restraining nemesis now is almost one-for-one a trade of heavy magical ritual work, which isn't exactly even but is a lot more fair.

No I got what what she was getting at and what we were putting down as payments. But the fact of the matter is the neutrality of the archive means that working with her is a pain in the ass. We are specifically in summer to execise the greatest infiltrator of her main enemy.

There should have been an upfront cost in actual goods but every cost after that should have been rather symbolic like a favor that can be spent you know discreetly or a lesser magical item or very least providing fucking materials for those things.

The neutrality of the archive makes doing business with her is completely what is the opposite of frictionless all the niceties and general quid pro quo's of business or diplomacy are absent and that makes every transaction with her feel awful. Hell we're doing her job it just fells bad.
 
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Cleanest solution remains breaking the Mantle to her will.

It's much easier to convince Ivy to help us than the enforced neutral Archive.
 
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