Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Cleanest solution remains breaking the Mantle to her will.

It's much easier to convince Ivy to help us than the enforced neutral Archive.

*Dice Roll*
If one means to break the Mantle of the Archive to the will of its bearer, this would be the bearer most suited for it, one who has known no other life, who understands the intricacies of its power as one might know the back of her own hand, or the beat of her heart

Just Infernal Twilight Thoughts (TM). :V
 
Cleanest solution remains breaking the Mantle to her will.

It's much easier to convince Ivy to help us than the enforced neutral Archive.
How difficult could Ivy's job as Archive become if it became known that she is no longer obligated to act as a neutral power?

The Archive doesn't get universal respect in the supernatural world, but the Mantle carries a lot of weight among most established powers.
 
How difficult could Ivy's job as Archive become if it became known that she is no longer obligated to act as a neutral power?

The Archive doesn't get universal respect in the supernatural world, but the Mantle carries a lot of weight among most established powers.

Who would know? How would they know? The mantle gets broken to her will but maintains it's knowledge and presence how would someone know that the enforced neutrality disappeared unless they could see on the inside of it. The archive goes from making deals that are neutral to deals that slightly favor factions but factions the archive wasn't already willing to deal with exist already.

If she continues on her role as Defender against Outsiders maintainer and destroyer of knowledge and acts with caution how would someone know the mantle has been broken to her will. The only people who could know would be beings who possess some level of omniscience or intellectus and I struggle to think of how the archive wouldn't be protected against those things.
 
How difficult could Ivy's job as Archive become if it became known that she is no longer obligated to act as a neutral power?

The Archive doesn't get universal respect in the supernatural world, but the Mantle carries a lot of weight among most established powers.
She would still carry a lot of weight by her power and knowledge and I strongly suspect Ivy would still consider her purpose a priority.

And people won't instantly know that she isn't bound to neutrality anymore.


In the long run it would harm the position of the Archive, as in over the next few generations, but in a world with Exalted in it that will become less important anyway.

Old Gods won't be quite as keen to return once a few people with Spirit-killers have made a point.
 
*Dice Roll*
If one means to break the Mantle of the Archive to the will of its bearer, this would be the bearer most suited for it, one who has known no other life, who understands the intricacies of its power as one might know the back of her own hand, or the beat of her heart

Just Infernal Twilight Thoughts (TM). :V
The only real difference for Molly's exaltation pre and post infernalization is that now it's bearers have a secretary for their intrusive thoughts.
 
Votes as they stand. Have not moved in a while.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Dec 15, 2023 at 8:35 AM, finished with 100 posts and 23 votes.

  • [X] Have the Archive bind them in exchange for one exorcism per shard restrained.
    [X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are excorsised.
    [X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are exorcised.
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer and dice adder
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening." leaning over to the young seer Molly whispers " Can you conjure me two discs of black ice roughly about the size of my palm and just about as thick? " Taking the silently conjured smoking ice one goes right into the side of the brassiere on her ribs under her left arm the other into the pant leg of her right leg. " Thank you."
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening."
 
She'll take exorcisms instead of splendors, which take less time and no reagents to perform.

Why pay the more expensive price for the same service?
Because it will make other people/other entities hesitate about consulting Molly about this sort of thing
Which will make everyone less safe.
On principle, we should be doing the exorcisms for free.

Charging for this is likely to have the same second and third order effects as charging for vaccinations of a pandemic disease.
Who would know? How would they know?
The same way people like the Gatekeeper knew that Molly opening a Hellgate in Chicago was good news, not an invasion.
Major players have multiple sources of information in this setting.

And its not like you can work any such thing quietly
She would still carry a lot of weight by her power and knowledge and I strongly suspect Ivy would still consider her purpose a priority.
And people won't instantly know that she isn't bound to neutrality anymore.
She gets to do her job because people trust she is neutral and unchangeable leave her that way.
She stops being neutral, people stop giving her access, and begin to plot actively impeding her where they think they dont want her around. If its demonstrated she can be altered, other opportunists will plot their own attempts.

Literally one of her operatives is the White Queen, for example.

Nevermind the idea that you can break the Archive's programming quietly, or without damaging the construct.
Or that anyone else in the setting will believe that you werent simply trying to do what the Denarians tried in Small Favor.

All round terrible idea.
 
Cleanest solution remains breaking the Mantle to her will.

It's much easier to convince Ivy to help us than the enforced neutral Archive.
There also the possibility that when she starts breaking the rules people in the know flip their lids because they think Nemesis got to her.

I think we should help, but this whole thing with getting angry at her restrictions because we keep paying sticker price is silly.

As long as we're willing to use miracles as currency people are going to want to be paid in them, restrictions or no restrictions. Recall that even Ivy has no way to know how our crafting works and keeps seeing us do the impossible with ease.

For all she knows this is as trivial an ask for us as making a 1-3 dot prodigy would be. It doesn't help that we can in fact make those and low dot splendors in a week or less IC if we have the resources on hand, further confusing the issue.

Really she's not being any more unreasonable with her ask here than we are in expecting to get paid for the nemesis stuff ourselves. That DP confirmed she's basically willing to trade what counts as risk and difficult ritual casting to her for unique but not inherently dangerous ritual work from us implies to me that she's willing to take much more token payments.

We just need to remember not to take the first offer people make when we have room to barter.
 
Because it will make other people/other entities hesitate about consulting Molly about this sort of thing
She is literally price gorging us. Splendors are a huge investment in time and money. They are also not a minor trinket but a powerful artifact.

Quite frankly? Given that she is said to be made to oppose Old Ones, she should be doing this for free. Because what better way to Oppose Nemesis than perma kill a few of its shards?

Yet she is charging us for it. So lets negotiate the cost, because we SHOULD do that.

Secondly, Doctors get paid. They are not a charity. So why should Molly be one as well? Even in RL, during CORONA, Doctors got paid. They did not do free services. They risked their life and were paid for it. Similarly, Molly is very much taking risks with the Exorcism, so it is very much fair to ask for something in return,

TLDNR: The Archive is setting a price and we NEED to negotiate it.
 
Because it will make other people/other entities hesitate about consulting Molly about this sort of thing
Which will make everyone less safe.
On principle, we should be doing the exorcisms for free.

Charging for this is likely to have the same second and third order effects as charging for vaccinations of a pandemic disease.
We've already charged for it, and will be charging for it again with Summer. Fey are fey, but we aren't getting token payments or going to the trouble of making agreements that would allow them to use our services for free to no cost. That is telling to the people paying attention to this stuff.

That cat is out of the bag here, especially since those cases are dramatically more public than any business of the Archive's will be. Even if it wasn't we can't really afford free exorcisms anyway, the time cost alone is too high.

Ivy knows we're primarily doing this to help, so I don't expect her to take this as meaning anything but agreeing to give priority to requests we'd have filled for her anyway.
 
She gets to do her job because people trust she is neutral and unchangeable leave her that way.
She stops being neutral, people stop giving her access, and begin to plot actively impeding her where they think they dont want her around. If its demonstrated she can be altered, other opportunists will plot their own attempts.

Literally one of her operatives is the White Queen, for example.

Nevermind the idea that you can break the Archive's programming quietly, or without damaging the construct.
Or that anyone else in the setting will believe that you werent simply trying to do what the Denarians tried in Small Favor.

All round terrible idea.
Still worth it.

Her job won't be necessary for long anymore, not if more Exalted return.

Better to set her free.
 
She is literally price gorging us. Splendors are a huge investment in time and money. They are also not a minor trinket but a powerful artifact.

Quite frankly? Given that she is said to be made to oppose Old Ones, she should be doing this for free. Because what better way to Oppose Nemesis than perma kill a few of its shards?

Yet she is charging us for it. So lets negotiate the cost, because we SHOULD do that.

Secondly, Doctors get paid. They are not a charity. So why should Molly be one as well? Even in RL, during CORONA, Doctors got paid. They did not do free services. They risked their life and were paid for it. Similarly, Molly is very much taking risks with the Exorcism, so it is very much fair to ask for something in return,

TLDNR: The Archive is setting a price and we NEED to negotiate it.
1)She isnt price-gouging us.
We are asking her to assist us in permakilling 3x shards of Nemesis, a spirit entity powerful and subtle enough to possess Ladies of the Fae Courts. Thats a Major service.

The fact that Ivy would usually do it for free doesnt mean that she is overcharging us for it at this price.
I dont know if its even possible for the Archive to deliberately overcharge us; it would arguably count as a violation of her neutrality by depriving a faction of significant resources, and cost it goodwill.


2) The Archive primarily exists to fight the Oblivion War.
To oppose Old Ones.
Nemesis et al arent direct elements of that particular war, and are a couple tiers down in power.


3) Doctors get paid to make a living. Molly doesnt need to do so.

Mab and Winter dont charge for manning the Outer Gates. Neither does the Gatekeeper.
Summer doesnt charge for counterbalancing Winter in human affairs either. The Archive doesnt charge for devoting her life to fighting the Oblivion War.

We've already charged for it, and will be charging for it again with Summer. Fey are fey, but we aren't getting token payments or going to the trouble of making agreements that would allow them to use our services for free to no cost. That is telling to the people paying attention to this stuff.

That cat is out of the bag here, especially since those cases are dramatically more public than any business of the Archive's will be. Even if it wasn't we can't really afford free exorcisms anyway, the time cost alone is too high.

Ivy knows we're primarily doing this to help, so I don't expect her to take this as meaning anything but agreeing to give priority to requests we'd have filled for her anyway.
Thats not accurate.

We've never charged for it. We've never asked money or payment for it before.
The Fae are bound to redress a balance, but thats not the same thing; Mab didnt ask us what we wanted. And not every faction in the setting is bound the way the Fae are.


Ivy is not the only person in this conversation, the Archive is as well.
And the construct itself has its own judgements and imperatives, even though they are filtered through its current host.
Still worth it.
Her job won't be necessary for long anymore, not if more Exalted return.
Better to set her free.
Thats not actually true. More Exalted returning would not make her job any less necessary.
And the idea that every other faction would sit back and let Molly fiddle with the inner workings of the Archive? The idea that the Archive itself would let us do it? Doesnt actually seem plausible either.

You're essentially proposing the same shit the Denarians tried in Small Favor.
 
The fact that Ivy would usually do it for free doesnt mean that she is overcharging us for it at this price.
The first half directly contridcts the second half.

If you charge for a service that you normally do for free, even charging a token amount is overcharging.

That still does not address the fact that her JOB is to fight outsiders and Old Ones. So why the heck is she charging Molly for it by demanding Powerful Magical Artifacts? Keep in mind that we NEED to kill powerful beings to make them.

So not only is she charging Molly excessively, she is also forcing Molly to Potentially risk herself to make them and for What? So that Molly can perma kill a few Nemesis chards, thereby making Ivy's life easier?

With allies like that who needs enemies.
3) Doctors get paid to make a living. Molly doesnt need to do so.
Molly is providing a key service and is taking a non-negligable risk to do so.

If you risk your life for something you need to get something in return or it tells the world just how much you value your life.
 
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Thats not actually true. More Exalted returning would not make her job any less necessary.
And the idea that every other faction would sit back and let Molly fiddle with the inner workings of the Archive? The idea that the Archive itself would let us do it? Doesnt actually seem plausible either.
Enough Exalted would flip the balance.
If elder monsters know that entering the world means true death, forgetting them becomes far less necessary.

After all the whole point of the Oblivion War is that mankind couldn't kill these things for good, so forgetting them was one of the few functional weapons to be rid of them.

Exalted being out, particularly in numbers, changes that balance a lot.

As for being allowed to change the Archive, Ivy is clever and any sane person will want freedom.
She can probably find a way to let us knock her out without full resistance so we can operate.
 
Still worth it.

Her job won't be necessary for long anymore, not if more Exalted return.

Better to set her free.
Debatable. It's not like the exalted solved the Rakasha problem. Especially if they're unfocused and running wild.

If anything she'll be more necessary in the transition period when the regular players are falling into chaos.

In any case her neutrality isn't the issue here, it's that the mantle won't let her do dangerous work that isn't directly related to her purpose* for free. Which is fair. Getting her to break that rule is valuable to us because we'd be subverting her, but not terribly good for her.

*Yes this is opposing nemesis/the outside, but she has a very specific duty that requires being slow and cautious to avoid catastrophic failure. Eating these shards is ultimately worth it, but I'm not surprised she's evaluating it to be more of a benefit to us than an action against her opponents.
Thats not accurate.

We've never charged for it. We've never asked money or payment for it before.
The Fae are bound to redress a balance, but thats not the same thing; Mab didnt ask us what we wanted. And not every faction in the setting is bound the way the Fae are.
We came to a negotiation with Mab relating to our personal issues with her and made what was effectively a sales pitch. She made an offer that gave us a serious resource and cleared our personal issues with her organization. This is functionally indistinguishable from doing business with her.

It's worth noting that the fey have to pay their debts, but they don't have to be perfectly fair - just technically correct. This is the basis of fey tricking people to get more than they give. See Harry getting the dumbo feather treatment from his godmother when what he bargained for was more power.

If we wanted to we could have made a counter offer that accepted a truly token payment that we evaluated as equal to the cost and man wouldn't have been obligated to negotiate on our behalf.

We didn't do that, we took the payday. We're about to do it again too.

Unless you're going to suggest that other factions won't count business done with fey as real because they don't have a choice but to pay on time or note that we went to the fey first and most often when offering our services in this manner. Which I think is a fairly dubious claim.

I mean seriously, we've actively been taking advantage of the fact that we did business with Mab to up our informal credit score. We can't simultaneously list Winter as a customer when making deals and deny that what we did with them was business.
Ivy is not the only person in this conversation, the Archive is as well.
And the construct itself has its own judgements and imperatives, even though they are filtered through its current host.
Yeah and? For our purposes Ivy is the only Archive that matters and it relies on her judgement for many things. It's also not a fey with all the alien mentality that implies. Reading when a person is legitimately interested in helping is an important skill for her, as something 5 millennia of memories matched to all written studies of human nature help with.

This gap is why the difference between what she suspects and can confirm matters.
Enough Exalted would flip the balance.
If elder monsters know that entering the world means true death, forgetting them becomes far less necessary.

After all the whole point of the Oblivion War is that mankind couldn't kill these things for good, so forgetting them was one of the few functional weapons to be rid of them.

Exalted being out, particularly in numbers, changes that balance a lot.

As for being allowed to change the Archive, Ivy is clever and any sane person will want freedom.
She can probably find a way to let us knock her out without full resistance so we can operate.
A lot of those things don't actually enter reality.

A favored trick of theirs is to share around rituals that invoke them and invite their power in to perform a transaction. Then evil genie it to fulfill the bargain in a way that serves their interests. Corrupts the user, hurts someone they don't like in the process, harvests something to use elsewhere, the usual.

You can't stab them without going outside or the deep nevernever to do it. Which exalts can do, but isn't trivial or necessarily fast.
 
The first half directly contridcts the second half.

If you charge for a service that you normally do for free, even charging a token amount is overcharging.

That still does not address the fact that her JOB is to fight outsiders and Old Ones. So why the heck is she charging Molly for it by demanding Powerful Magical Artifacts? Keep in mind that we NEED to kill powerful beings to make them.

So not only is she charging Molly excessively, she is also forcing Molly to Potentially risk herself to make them and for What? So that Molly can perma kill a few Nemesis chards, thereby making Ivy's life easier?

With allies like that who needs enemies.
1) Thats like arguing that because a law firm takes pro bono cases from low-income litigants, that its overcharging when it asks for fees from people who can afford it.


2) Her job is to fight and coordinate the Oblivion War.
Nemesis and its ilk are usually outside her remit; they work for different people, and as far as we know Nemesis et al havent made any attempts on the Archive in recent memory. At least not in canon.

Nor is it like she's asking for stuff; she's charging in terms of munitions for that war she is fighting.
And frankly, this is stuff we'd consider giving her for free, if we had the raw materials.


3) Permakilling Nemesis shards makes Molly's life easier. And the Fae.
Significantly more than the Archive, since Molly is a lot higher priority on the Outsider list than Ivy is.

Enough Exalted would flip the balance.
If elder monsters know that entering the world means true death, forgetting them becomes far less necessary.

After all the whole point of the Oblivion War is that mankind couldn't kill these things for good, so forgetting them was one of the few functional weapons to be rid of them.

Exalted being out, particularly in numbers, changes that balance a lot.

As for being allowed to change the Archive, Ivy is clever and any sane person will want freedom.
She can probably find a way to let us knock her out without full resistance so we can operate.
1) It took a united Solar Host to kick out the Primordials.
700ish Celestial Exalts. A million plus Dragonbloods. Millions of spirits and gods and elementals and the like. Tens of millions of mortals and other species. Two supporting Primordials.

More Exalts =/= United host.


2)Counterpoint: See the Neverborn.
Death is not the end when you are dealing with big enough baddies in the Exalted system.
And thats assuming you CAN kill them. The Exalted didnt wipe out the Raksha.


3)A lot of unwarranted assumptions in this statement.
I could just as easily point out that the people who made the Archive were very clever people themselves, and the Archive hasnt kept itself intact and operational over five thousand years in the face of Old One opposition by collecting bottle caps.
 
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1)She isnt price-gouging us.
We are asking her to assist us in permakilling 3x shards of Nemesis, a spirit entity powerful and subtle enough to possess Ladies of the Fae Courts. Thats a Major service.

The fact that Ivy would usually do it for free doesnt mean that she is overcharging us for it at this price.
I dont know if its even possible for the Archive to deliberately overcharge us; it would arguably count as a violation of her neutrality by depriving a faction of significant resources, and cost it goodwill.

There is a certain latitude here, she is allowed to take political positions, she is just limited in how much power she can put behind them. The more she wants to push something the more scrupulous she has to be about her neutrality
 
That still does not address the fact that her JOB is to fight outsiders and Old Ones. So why the heck is she charging Molly for it by demanding Powerful Magical Artifacts? Keep in mind that we NEED to kill powerful beings to make them.

So not only is she charging Molly excessively, she is also forcing Molly to Potentially risk herself to make them and for What? So that Molly can perma kill a few Nemesis chards, thereby making Ivy's life easier?
Your post answers itself. She's taking a risk, and it's one that's not strictly necessary for her purpose, which is to fight an information war that this action only indirectly benefits.

She also doesn't know how our crafting works. We didn't tell her and have never implied it cost us anything substantial.

He first introduction to the concept was us telling her a story about how we made one in a day because we felt bad for a fey queen and wanted help giving it to her without getting in trouble.

When she tested the waters by asking for her own miracles, because why wouldn't you if someone clearly doesn't mind handing them out when it suits her wants to do business, we took the first offer without hesitation.

We've never mentioned any costs and it's not like we wrote a guide.

Ivy isn't in our camp, but I don't blame her for thinking these things are effectively trinkets we can whistle up nearly at will. We've been acting like they are.
 
The Exalted where fully capable of dealing with Neverborn, and Rakasha on a permanent basis, the only reason they did not is they never voted for it. It was a lack of political will not ablity preventing them from dealing with them.
 
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2) The Archive primarily exists to fight the Oblivion War.
To oppose Old Ones.
Nemesis et al arent direct elements of that particular war, and are a couple tiers down in power.
At a basic level any Outsider is a threat to what the Oblivion war is trying to avoid, that is information of the Outside and those in it becoming common knowledge because that would help the Old Ones. Nemesis doesn't go out of it's way to make itself known but that doesn't mean his goals aren't a threat to that end or reality in general.

It's damn well the Archive's job to take care of Nemesis, it's an Outsider just a more lowkey one until it strikes.

Mab and Winter dont charge for manning the Outer Gates. Neither does the Gatekeeper.
Summer doesnt charge for counterbalancing Winter in human affairs either. The Archive doesnt charge for devoting her life to fighting the Oblivion War.
While this is true I'm not sure what your getting at here. Molly has not decided to devote her life to fighting the Outside or take up the heavy task of defending the Gates and we frankly have more interesting shit going on than fighting Outsiders all the time.

We are doing this because it's the right thing to do but have other goals it is not actually Molly's obligation to do this.

Are you saying that she should take after their example even if she hasn't taken on their obligations? That is wack.
 
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The Exalted where fully capable of dealing with Neverborn, and Rakasha on a permanent basis, the only reason they did not is they never voted for it. It was a lack of political will not ablity preventing them from dealing with them.
You're saying that information and decision making failures on the part of the human element of the exalted host resulted in failure even when they were nominally united?

Cause we'd just be facing that but worse here. The crown of eyes helps a lot, but it doesn't even solve a full half of the problem.

You know the difference between a battle you lost because you didn't try or couldn't coordinate your resources to properly apply them and one you lost because you're materially incapable of winning?

Nothing. With the possible exception of how much you're laughed at by history.
 
Primordials.
700ish Celestial Exalts. A million plus Dragonbloods. Millions of spirits and gods and elementals and the like. Tens of millions of mortals and other species. Two supporting Primordials.

More Exalts =/= United host.
We just killed an old god-monster.
Sure, the bigger beasts out there will be harder, but I'd easily bet on Molly over Cthuhlu right now.
Yog-Sototh would take a full Circle.

And even if Exalted can't deal with these things alone, they always offer a chance to permakill, where before banishment, imprisonment or sleep where the worst things men can do to these things.
A lot of unwarranted assumptions in this statement.
I could just as easily point out that the people who made the Archive were very clever people themselves, and the Archive hasnt kept itself intact and operational over five thousand years in the face of Old One opposition by collecting bottle caps.
Again, she is operating on rules that are 5000 years old.
The world has changed and what was reasonable then is not anymore.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 15, 2023 at 10:31 AM, finished with 117 posts and 23 votes.

  • [X] Have the Archive bind them in exchange for one exorcism per shard restrained.
    [X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are excorsised.
    [X] Have the Archive bind them for you to consume (Costs 1 additional Splendor owed to the Ventori bringing the total up to four)
    [X] Ask Titania to kill the Nemesis Shards after they are exorcised.
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer and dice adder
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening." leaning over to the young seer Molly whispers " Can you conjure me two discs of black ice roughly about the size of my palm and just about as thick? " Taking the silently conjured smoking ice one goes right into the side of the brassiere on her ribs under her left arm the other into the pant leg of her right leg. " Thank you."
    [X] Plan Death by difficulty reducer
    -[X] You are fast enough to do it without a binding (To defeat and be eligible to consume each shard Molly must deliver 7 Wounds to a spirit-form with a Dodge 6 Soak 3 in a single round without Excellencies or other charms)
    --[X] Stunt: Before the prisoners are bought out in they're glowing chains Molly splashes her face with the waters of the lake of Avalon. " Lady Titania, I must ask if we can perform the exorcisms in a sealed ritual space it will ensure the safety of your subjects as well as the demise of the enemy that put them at risk in the first place. You and your guards are welcome to observe as well from within just as long as they do not allow anyone to leave or come in while the exorcism is happening."
 
We just killed an old god-monster.
Sure, the bigger beasts out there will be harder, but I'd easily bet on Molly over Cthuhlu right now.
Yog-Sototh would take a full Circle.

And even if Exalted can't deal with these things alone, they always offer a chance to permakill, where before banishment, imprisonment or sleep where the worst things men can do to these things
Iku was a god monster, but he wasn't exactly top tier and he's been living in a box on scraps of old people dreams for a while now.

Molly is really, really, good at killing things and a threat to people who aren't usually possible to threaten, but that's not a guarantee of success.

we're talking about clever and powerful players who aren't going to make the same mistakes twice. A dedicated and coordinated exalted host could fight it effectively, but we don't have that and won't get it for a long time if we ever do.

What we will have if the exalted get out is the whole setting having a heart attack for a bit as the power structure is reorganized. Which is when the Archive will be needed the most.

Again, she is operating on rules that are 5000 years old.
The world has changed and what was reasonable then is not anymore
Assuming those rules haven't been updated or grown with the times. 5 millennia is a long time to last if the Archive was frozen like that.

We really haven't seen that unreasonable a set of restrictions here from an effectiveness standpoint either. She can't take unnecessary risks for free, or take sides on internal disputes to reality because she has to be able to work with everyone.

The thing about personal relationships is good example of this. The people who made it didn't add that rule, the line of archives learned that over the long term it really screwed them up to maintain them post mantling.

Also recall that a significant number of Archives go crazy after a while. What's your opinion on someone with access to all written information for most of human history and a loose relationship with objective reality beyond the confines of the Oblivion War allowed to do whatever they liked to earth?

I don't like the situation, but I can see why they'd want some guide rails.
 
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