Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Can we just raise our hand and call down a storm, or shift the earth?

Lord of the Land should be a good proof that this is our realm in more than the legal sense.

So, like I guessed, denial. Like, denial, denial, denial. Also, I don't think Lash wanted Harry to disbelief. I think (know) Lash botched badly. I believe she is trying to defect / curry favor
In fairness it is a particularly ridiculous claim. It'd be crazy even without the atemporal creation, but the long history of the place really doesn't help.

We could try to make an argument about the number of atemporal spirits our there, and how giving a place a history is about as hard as giving it width if you're already engineering a new reality out of nothing and Bob's whole thing about Molly being a Queen without a court rather than one separated from hers, but I think that's a losing position.

Too much rests on what could be and not enough on what can be proven.

Even with a sorcerer taking about the nature of the realm we're still talking about abstract enough points that there's lots of room for disbelief.

The biggest points we can prove here that contradict his position are that the material here is physically real and can be taken back to earth and that the FFCF are inside Molly's soul instead of being in the nevernever.

Lord of the land is only helpful here if watching it in action gives enough information to support the second point. If it doesn't then all it proves is that we have dominion, which you can have over normal pocket realms. Mab, for example, can twist faerie in all sorts of ways but sure as hell didn't make the place.

Harry should actually be able to test and confirm the location of the FFCF himself. He knows a spell for entering the nevernever, it isn't his focus, but he does know it.

Wizardry isn't an X-men style mutant power, to do stuff like that Harry has to understand what he's trying at a rudimentary level and be able to sense what he's doing. They make a point about it in the early DF when discussing how a wizard is different than a talent.

If we can get him to take a poke at the border between this place and reality then he should be able to at minimum tell this place is not hanging around on the other side of the gauntlet he's familiar with. If he's good enough to get a "vector" when reaching to interact with the borders of his local reality and trying to connect it to somewhere else then that would pretty solidly support our case.

It being inside and composed of Molly's soul requires that she either be telling the truth or have ripped a planet out of the spirit world and made it into physical reality to support the illusion she is. Whichever he believes they're functionally the same going forward.

Why are we wasting time convincing harry. He is a fucking idiot and stupid beisdes. Lets focus on more important things.

It might not be the most important thing, but there's still cause to do it.

Even setting aside the fact that he's one of Molly's intimacies, Dresden is a decently powerful wizard and would absolutely interfere to protect Molly. We don't want him to try that against our own hell realm.

He's also a very influential and high profile member of the council. He does have a very turbulent relationship with the organization as a whole, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he has a mix of high leadership connections and serious credibility with groups like the rising generation of the council's military arm.

They don't trust him on a lot of things, but he does still have their attention and respect on others. With his connection to Molly it's highly likely he will have great influence over how they initially see us, which in turn will influence our relations with most of the human friendly powers.

It's unlikely to be the dominant factor at that level, but it should still be enough to greatly help or hinder us depending on how it goes.

At minimum it's worth our time to make sure he won't cause us well intended problems as he runs around trying to get a handle on the situation.
 
Question if the nevernever is a spiritual plane, sutras that require a physical medium wouldnt be posible by using only spiritual materials??
 
Question if the nevernever is a spiritual plane, sutras that require a physical medium wouldnt be posible by using only spiritual materials??
Not really. Spirit matter pretending to be a valid target for possession would still be free real estate for a lot of nevernever spirits.

Dresden also hasn't seen a sutra on a mundane system yet. For all he knows they're only possible because of a weird property imposed on the spirit matter here and the locals don't know any better because they weren't aware the "real world" existed until today.
 
[X] Ascendant Eye of Silver Peace, Aesp, the eldest sorcerer and spirit binder in the palace
-[X] "Thou shalt not swim against thr currents of time", Harry. If acausal magic wasn't possible, there would be no reason to prohibit it.
 
In fairness it is a particularly ridiculous claim. It'd be crazy even without the atemporal creation, but the long history of the place really doesn't help.

We could try to make an argument about the number of atemporal spirits our there, and how giving a place a history is about as hard as giving it width if you're already engineering a new reality out of nothing and Bob's whole thing about Molly being a Queen without a court rather than one separated from hers, but I think that's a losing position.

Too much rests on what could be and not enough on what can be proven.

Even with a sorcerer taking about the nature of the realm we're still talking about abstract enough points that there's lots of room for disbelief.

The biggest points we can prove here that contradict his position are that the material here is physically real and can be taken back to earth and that the FFCF are inside Molly's soul instead of being in the nevernever.

Lord of the land is only helpful here if watching it in action gives enough information to support the second point. If it doesn't then all it proves is that we have dominion, which you can have over normal pocket realms. Mab, for example, can twist faerie in all sorts of ways but sure as hell didn't make the place.

Harry should actually be able to test and confirm the location of the FFCF himself. He knows a spell for entering the nevernever, it isn't his focus, but he does know it.

Wizardry isn't an X-men style mutant power, to do stuff like that Harry has to understand what he's trying at a rudimentary level and be able to sense what he's doing. They make a point about it in the early DF when discussing how a wizard is different than a talent.

If we can get him to take a poke at the border between this place and reality then he should be able to at minimum tell this place is not hanging around on the other side of the gauntlet he's familiar with. If he's good enough to get a "vector" when reaching to interact with the borders of his local reality and trying to connect it to somewhere else then that would pretty solidly support our case.

It being inside and composed of Molly's soul requires that she either be telling the truth or have ripped a planet out of the spirit world and made it into physical reality to support the illusion she is. Whichever he believes they're functionally the same going forward.



It might not be the most important thing, but there's still cause to do it.

Even setting aside the fact that he's one of Molly's intimacies, Dresden is a decently powerful wizard and would absolutely interfere to protect Molly. We don't want him to try that against our own hell realm.

He's also a very influential and high profile member of the council. He does have a very turbulent relationship with the organization as a whole, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he has a mix of high leadership connections and serious credibility with groups like the rising generation of the council's military arm.

They don't trust him on a lot of things, but he does still have their attention and respect on others. With his connection to Molly it's highly likely he will have great influence over how they initially see us, which in turn will influence our relations with most of the human friendly powers.

It's unlikely to be the dominant factor at that level, but it should still be enough to greatly help or hinder us depending on how it goes.

At minimum it's worth our time to make sure he won't cause us well intended problems as he runs around trying to get a handle on the situation.

While Harry could attempt to open a gate right here it is generally not something that is encouraged. The deeper in the spirit world one goes and the more alien the realm the more dangerous and remote a direct gate would be. For all he knows attempting to open a gate right here would lead to the surface of Halley's Comet.
 
While Harry could attempt to open a gate right here it is generally not something that is encouraged. The deeper in the spirit world one goes and the more alien the realm the more dangerous and remote a direct gate would be. For all he knows attempting to open a gate right here would lead to the surface of Halley's Comet.
Could we encourage him to do It by showing him Lord of the land and through that blockany posible consequences??
 
Could we encourage him to do It by showing him Lord of the land and through that blockany posible consequences??

Sure that is something you guys could do, though it is worth keeping in mind that Lord of the Land does not play well with indoor spaces so you would need to get out of the palace and into the... utter hellscape that is Sanctuary outside the equatorial belt and the cities.
 
While Harry could attempt to open a gate right here it is generally not something that is encouraged. The deeper in the spirit world one goes and the more alien the realm the more dangerous and remote a direct gate would be. For all he knows attempting to open a gate right here would lead to the surface of Halley's Comet.
Would setting up to try still tell him something? He has to reach out and poke the barrier after all, and the one he hits won't be the gauntlet. It doesn't even operate the same way considering the fact that it's always as difficult to pierce as Molly's willpower dots. That's impossibly uniform for the natural barrier he's familiar with.

Am I just assuming too much feedback for this ability?

It seems strange to me that someone could learn to bust holes in reality by carefully shaping energy with their soul to interact with its boundary in a useful way, but fail to notice a fundamental change in the substance of their target when doing so to a different barrier from the one they've always interacted with before.
 
Would setting up to try still tell him something? He has to reach out and poke the barrier after all, and the one he hits won't be the gauntlet. It doesn't even operate the same way considering the fact that it's always as difficult to pierce as Molly's willpower dots. That's impossibly uniform for the natural barrier he's familiar with.

Am I just assuming too much feedback for this ability?

It seems strange to me that someone could learn to bust holes in reality by carefully shaping energy with their soul to interact with its boundary in a useful way, but fail to notice a fundamental change in the substance of their target when doing so to a different barrier from the one they've always interacted with before.
You know, we could just smile knowingly and ask him if he is so sure this is the never never to see about opening his own portal home. If this was a never never kingdom Dresden could just, you know, open a portal and leave. Here he can't.
 
Would setting up to try still tell him something? He has to reach out and poke the barrier after all, and the one he hits won't be the gauntlet. It doesn't even operate the same way considering the fact that it's always as difficult to pierce as Molly's willpower dots. That's impossibly uniform for the natural barrier he's familiar with.

Am I just assuming too much feedback for this ability?

It seems strange to me that someone could learn to bust holes in reality by carefully shaping energy with their soul to interact with its boundary in a useful way, but fail to notice a fundamental change in the substance of their target when doing so to a different barrier from the one they've always interacted with before.

He is not skilled enough at it to feel around for the barrier. Harry's way of opening a way involves punching sideways to wherever he is very hard.
 
[X] Ascendant Eye of Silver Peace, Aesp, the eldest sorcerer and spirit binder in the palace
-[X] Waggle eyebrows -Sure you want me to do my worst?
-[X] "Thou shalt not swim against the currents of time", Harry. If acausal magic wasn't possible, there would be no reason to prohibit it.
-[X] Challenge him to pick whatever souvenirs catch his interest (within reason and common sense) to bring back to Earth with him (authorize this with Aesp), and try to make them turn back to ectoplasm. That will prove that this realm is not part of the Nevernerver, no?
 
[X] Ascendant Eye of Silver Peace, Aesp, the eldest sorcerer and spirit binder in the palace
-[X] Waggle eyebrows -Sure you want me to do my worst?
-[X] "Thou shalt not swim against the currents of time", Harry. If acausal magic wasn't possible, there would be no reason to prohibit it.
-[X] Challenge him to pick whatever souvenirs catch his interest (within reason and common sense) to bring back to Earth with him (authorize this with Aesp), and try to make them turn back to ectoplasm. That will prove that this realm is not part of the Nevernerver, no?

So you do want to flirt in front of Michael? Well you are Exalted, you can do what you want
*pencils in DC 9 will save not to blush* :V
 
We sure we want to use the time travel law as an argument? There are still people who might think we're part of the councils jurisdiction, there was this business with Ebenezar to get our inhumanity backdated, etc.
 
So you do want to flirt in front of Michael? Well you are Exalted, you can do what you want
*pencils in DC 9 will save not to blush* :V
Michael certainly is aware of our interest by now. Also, it's pretty tame as flirting goes, and Molly should fully expect Harry to shut us down and move on with the serious business. But some straigth lines are too good to pass up.
 
Michael certainly is aware of our interest by now. Also, it's pretty tame as flirting goes, and Molly should fully expect Harry to shut us down and move on with the serious business. But some straigth lines are too good to pass up.
It was already an effort not to suggest some James T. Kirk style first encounter negotiations with the local Empress...
 
Michael certainly is aware of our interest by now. Also, it's pretty tame as flirting goes, and Molly should fully expect Harry to shut us down and move on with the serious business. But some straigth lines are too good to pass up.

It is not that Molly is concerned how he will react, all things considered this is likely to be the least of his worries, but blushing not something one chooses to do.
 
It is not that Molly is concerned how he will react, all things considered this is likely to be the least of his worries, but blushing not something one chooses to do.
Or we just furiously blush.

Our kingdom is thousands of years deprived of the best sorts of royal gossip. We gotta feed the media somehow. They are all devoted to us. I put even odds we just end up with 5 billion wing people rooting for our little romance.

Think about the ship fics! We could have ship fics!
 
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Or we just furiously blush.

Our kingdom is thousands of years deprived of the best sorts of royal gossip. We gotta feed the media somehow. They are all devoted to us. I put even odds we just end up with 5 billion wing people rooting for our little romance.

Think about the ship fics! We could have ship fics!


I bet we have those anyway. With our friends. Maybe we should stay out of the rpf network :)
 
"So what if she was saying that because you know you would not trust her and wanted you to disbelieve? I mean she could have made a solid guess what your conclusion would have been otherwise right? What if the shadow was trying her hand at a bit of reverse psychology?"

"She's not as good at lying as she thinks she is," he mutters under his breath.

Funniest thing is, Harry's partially right there, she wasn't going for reverse psychology.

Of course, if anyone ask now, she will absolutely says that this was the case, thanks Molly for giving her that idea.

So, like I guessed, denial. Like, denial, denial, denial. Also, I don't think Lash wanted Harry to disbelief. I think (know) Lash botched badly. I believe she is trying to defect / curry favor

Harry's mind right now:




:V

[X] Ascendant Eye of Silver Peace, Aesp, the eldest sorcerer and spirit binder in the palace
-[X] "Thou shalt not swim against thr currents of time", Harry. If acausal magic wasn't possible, there would be no reason to prohibit it.
 
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