Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

Counterpoint: It denies them funding for a warmachine for the inevitable counterblow.

Just thought of a hilarious ISOT

tankdrop24 said:

Counterpoint: It denies them funding for a warmachine for the inevitable counterblow.

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They might do the time honoured Prussian tradtion of slash funding anything that isn't the military and use all those reconstruction funds for the millitary( like most of the money Prussia spent on the military wasn't from Prussia itself but from the economic pact money from other german states,making the Prussian budget a giant ponzi scheme)

So, with an hour left and none of the sabotage plans leaving me particularly thrilled after clarifications (i.e., no -3 & sabotage), here's something similar to Zimmer's plan but slightly modified. The idea of linking the North and Black Seas via a Danube canal tickles my infrastructure brain too much to leave out in favour of reparations. I also think influence in Romania, both for the supply of oil and as a way of almost completely cutting Russia off from the rest of the Entente (excluding Murmansk), is worth more than however much money the Tsar can bleed the serfs dry for.

[] Plan: From Sea to Sea (–3 leverage)
-[] We will sabotage the talks.
-[] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (–4 leverage)
-[] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (–2 leverage)
-[] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (–1 leverage)
-[] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (0 leverage)
-[] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2 leverage)

So if we're not taking reparations then we should peace out now before we start losing steam

C_Z said:

So, with an hour left and none of the sabotage plans leaving me particularly thrilled after clarifications (i.e., no -3 & sabotage)

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There's mine:

Random Member said:

[] Plan The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
-[] We will sabotage the talks.
-[] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

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[X] Plan: The limits of our ambition
-[X] We will engage in good faith.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished.

[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay modest reparations.
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished.

[X] Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished.

[x] Plan: Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)
-[x] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[x] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[x] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[x] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[x] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[x] The other League states shall not be punished.

Identical to The Limits of our Ambition, other than using a different negotiation style. I suspect that Good Faith negotiations will make them doubt our resolve and thus they will reject our demands.

[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland shall remain under Allied control. (-2)
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.(-4)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay severe reparations. (-2)
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished. (0)

Once more - Any plan which involves "good faith" is actively weakening us and our goals for no reason other than making nice with the Entente. It is actively weakening every other option taken.

[X] Plan Peace Out v2
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland shall be independent.
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be placed under Alliance control.
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations.
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished.

I have the impression that us just saying 'let's partition the Habsburgs' will lead into a Berlin Congress of the Balkans. That sort of thing would cause a couple Balkan wars if I had to guess, which is something I don't want to entertain.

[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

[ ] Plan for Domestic Consumption

[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland shall remain under Allied control. (-2)
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.(-4)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay severe reparations. (-2)
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished. (0)

@Aedan777 plan

[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

[X] Plan The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
-[X] We will sabotage the talks.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

@Random Member plans

[X] Plan: The Red Map
-[X] We will sabotage the talks.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall additionally take Slovakia and Hungary.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be placed under Alliance control.
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay severe reparations.
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized

@Godwinson plan

[] Plan for Domestic Consumption (–2 leverage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (–4 leverage)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (–2 leverage)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (–1 leverage)
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay modest reparations. (–1 leverage)
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished. (+0 leverage)

@Zimmerwald1915 plan

[x] Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)

[X] Plan: The limits of our ambition

Edit: Also approval voted for @Anchises ' plan

[X] Plan: The Red Map
[X] Plan The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War

[X] Plan: Dispense Liberation, Eliminate Hapsburg (-1 Leverage)
[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption

Those two are fine.

I like the -1 leverage one over the -2 one if it comes down to it.

I am really dead set against engaging in good faith if we're partitioning. I want ideological commitment if we're not occupying the place to reconstruct it on our own schedule.

I've also been convinced against reorganizing the league's allies because we really don't want to be forced to defend Bulgaria's maximalist nationalist borders.

[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control.
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders.
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned.
-[X] Russia and Austria must pay modest reparations.
-[X] The other League states shall not be punished.

[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)
-[X] We will cast down tyrants and liberate nations.
-[X] Poland, Lithuania, and Galicia shall be placed under Allied control. (-4)
-[X] The Alliance shall receive the old Confederal borders. (-2)
-[X] The Habsburg Empire must be partitioned. (-1)
-[X] Russia and Austria do not have to pay reparations. (+0)
-[X] The other League states must be reorganized. (-2)

[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War
[X] Plan: The Pink Map (Sabotaged)
[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)

I cannot in good faith vote for anything other than the war continuing.

Edit: with the pro-war plans being in the lead, changing my approval vote to be more specific.

[X] Plan The Pink Map (No Sabotage)

[X] Plan for Domestic Consumption

[X] Plan: Engineered Continuation of War