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Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

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[X] Plan: Baltic Gate (1 Leverage)
-[x] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[x] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[x] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Denmark must be reconstructed, I don't want us to have to bother with Scandinavia in next war, so this plan makes sense.
 
[X] Plan: Baltic Gate (1 Leverage)
-[X] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must be made to accept neutrality.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Let us not flatter ourselves into thinking that only a firm German hand can reconstruct other nations. Their revolutionaries have brains and guns of their own.
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Nothing in the choice to let Germany choose the fate of Denmark force us to be the ones to micromanage reconstruction. In fact I'll be the first to argue against doing that once we ask what to do with our control. But it does ensure that its revolutionaries aren't committed to neutrality or forced to fight anti revolutionary forces backed by other powers.
 
[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East
-[X] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East
-[X] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

Scandinavia was never the true goal of this war anyways. Eyes on the prize people.
 
[X] Plan: Counter-Imperialism and Realpolitik -
-[X] Denmark and its overseas territories shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East
-[X] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[X] Plan Let's All Get Along
-[X] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East

People, we desperately need at least some brownie points with the imperialists to our west so the Allies-liberated countries don't just amount to Austria, Bohemia, Slovenia, Poland, & Denmark - we would be fucked in the next conflict due to Entente-sympathizing Russia, rump Habsburg state, & Scandinavia if we only freed those states.
 
[x] Plan: Scandinavian Dissolution
-[x] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[x] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
-[x] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.

The only Danish solution I find palatable enough since it means the overseas territories are out of the hands of the monarchists.
 
FYI, the effect of concessions per plan towards positive international & Ententen opinion are:

Plan Let's All Get Along: +7
Plan Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East: +4
Counter-Imperialism & Realpolitik: +2
Scandinavian Dissolution: +2
Baltic Gate: +1

Baltic Gate neither goes as far as liberating Danish colonies like Counter-Imperialism, dissolve he Scandinavian Union (united it'd be well-disposed tk the Entente, but if Norway & Finland are pried away those two states will be well-disposed to our Alliance) edit: like Scandinavian Dissolution, nor does it amass high goodwill from the Entente to allow us a freer hand against Austria & Russia like Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East & to a greater extent Let's All Get Along.

IMO it's the least optimal plan in this vote.
 
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Regency said:
FYI, the effect of concessions per plan towards positive international & Ententen opinion are:

Plan Let's All Get Along: +7
Plan Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East: +4
Counter-Imperialism & Realpolitik: +2
Scandinavian Dissolution: +2
Baltic Gate: +1

Baltic Gate neither goes as far as liberating Danish colonies like Counter-Imperialism, dissolve he Scandinavian Union (united it'd be well-disposed tk the Entente, but if Norway & Finland are pried away those two states will be well-disposed to our Alliance) edit: like Scandinavian Dissolution, nor does it amass high goodwill from the Entente to allow us a freer hand against Austria & Russia like Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East & to a greater extent Let's All Get Along.

IMO it's the least optimal plan in this vote.
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In that case:

[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East
 
Regency said:
FYI, the effect of concessions per plan towards positive international & Ententen opinion are:

Plan Let's All Get Along: +7
Plan Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East: +4
Counter-Imperialism & Realpolitik: +2
Scandinavian Dissolution: +2
Baltic Gate: +1

Baltic Gate neither goes as far as liberating Danish colonies like Counter-Imperialism, dissolve he Scandinavian Union (united it'd be well-disposed tk the Entente, but if Norway & Finland are pried away those two states will be well-disposed to our Alliance), nor does it amass high goodwill from the Entente to allow us a freer hand against Austria & Russia. IMO it's the least optimal plan in this vote.
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I don't know how you've concluded Finland would be friendly to us if Scandinavia is dissolved considering it's going straight back into Russian hands as a grand duchy.

It's also a serious political capital expenditure. If you care about that, I think plan Sound Toll is a decent choice over Baltic Gate, even though I expect it'll give the Entente inroads in Scandinavia. But I don't think spending that capital again on breaking it up is worth it.

Especially since it could easily happen on its own considering the mauling they've taken and their internal divisions.
 
Nyvis said:
I don't know how you've concluded Finland would be friendly to us if Scandinavia is dissolved considering it's going straight back into Russian hands as a grand duchy.
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Finland would only return to Russia only if "Finland isn't part of a subsequent peace deal with the Russians." So I suppose it would depend on how the peace with Russia would turn out.
 
[X] Plan: Sound Toll + Free Hand in the East
-[X] Denmark shall remain under Allied control.
-[X] Scandinavia must withdraw from the Imperial League.
-[X] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
Nyvis said:
I don't know how you've concluded Finland would be friendly to us if Scandinavia is dissolved considering it's going straight back into Russian hands as a grand duchy.

It's also a serious political capital expenditure. If you care about that, I think plan Sound Toll is a decent choice over Baltic Gate, even though I expect it'll give the Entente inroads in Scandinavia. But I don't think spending that capital again on breaking it up is worth it.

Especially since it could easily happen on its own considering the mauling they've taken and their internal divisions.
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Point, Finland would return to Russia unless we pry it away in a peace deal somehow. Possible, but improbable - although a neutral Finland may be more likely.

I'll amend that post here to, those two plans' worth depend on which do you think is better:
1. A German-sympathetic Norway, potentially German-sympathetic Denmark (they're likely gonna at least be a republic after their royal fled), Entente-sympathetic Sweden, and slightly better international & Entente opinion in Scandinavian Dissolution
vs
2. Allied Denmark, Entente-sympathetic Scandinavia, and slightly smaller international & Entente opinion in Baltic Gate.

That opinion being important to how soon the Entente would intervene

Regarding concern over Entente influence in Scandinavia:
Our monarchical northern neighbour would always be better predisposed to the Entente against our anti-monarchist bloc nevertheless & I doubt, after Etran's explanation what enforced political-military neutrality entails, Scandinavia would be a republic.

They could very well be open about that alignment once an Alliance-Entente War breaks out with the security of Franco-British support (and - God forbid if the Tsardom to our east hasn't flipped to our side through revolution by then - Russian support)
 
Regency said:
Regarding concern over Entente influence in Scandinavia:
Our monarchical northern neighbour would always be better predisposed to the Entente against our anti-monarchist bloc nevertheless & I doubt, after Etran's explanation what enforced political-military neutrality entails, Scandinavia would be a republic.

They could very well be open about that alignment once an Alliance-Entente War breaks out with the security of Franco-British support (and - God forbid if the Tsardom to our east hasn't flipped to our side through revolution by then - Russian support)
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Scandinavia will always lean towards Britain or Russia as long as it's a monarchy, that's obvious, but if it's neutralized we can ensure it's not going to be a threat despite those leanings, or at least that it'd take significant effort to rearm before it's a problem. If we merely force them out of the imperial league, I expect they'll go directly into Britain's block fully armed and we'll have to deal with them again come next war rather than letting them sit it out.

You can calculate that goodwill from Britain is worth it since it will let us get away with more in the current war, just be aware of the future issue.
 
[x] Plan: Scandinavian Dissolution
-[x] Denmark shall be an independent state.
-[x] Scandinavia must be dissolved.
-[x] Scandinavia does not have to pay reparations.
 
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