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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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LadySerpentine said:
My argument is that we currently have a signficant backlog and this does not seem to be a project that we can reliably put on hold once we've started it. Rather than add yet another thing to the pile, this time something that blocks us from clearing up anything else (at least in part) until we get it to a stable point some unspecified number of actions and turns from now, I'd prefer to actually complete some of the stuff we're already doing.
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This is basically no different than what I've said, you just rephrased it. You want to do other stuff, you find that stuff more urgent/compelling, so apparitions should be kicked down the road. To some nebulous when that has no guarantee of ever arriving. This completely uncompelling to me. Especially when your issue about future actions demanded isn't even something guaranteed to happen.

The metric of stuff we're already doing is also pretty much something that could mean anything. I could easily make the same argument about completing stuff in regards to apparitions, we already started the work when we took the action to learn from Gehenna.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Right, but Rider in Red is the primary name. Blood Knight is an alternate.
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I was more thinking of alternate in the context of being more palatable/less associated with the Chaos Gods, rather than alternate in terms of there being a primary name in the source material, though I can see how the wording would imply the latter.

reignonyrparade said:
What SOME OF US suspect the Ambers to be using. Notably the Ambers are the only ones who have any explanation at all what they're doing even if it's completely meaningless to everyone else, I'm inclined to believe that the Ambers are, in fact, dealing with some entity called Corvus the Crowlord when they say they're doing their crow summoning spell on the basis of some entity called Corvus the Crowlord.
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Fair enough. Fwiw I don't think they're mutually exclusive, one possibility could be using a binding mechanism that invokes or is derived from Corvus the Crowlord. I was mainly just trying to paraphrase the quote that MossPiglet brought up.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
This is basically no different than what I've said, you just rephrased it. You want to do other stuff, you find that stuff more urgent, so apparitions should be kicked down the road. To some nebulous when that has no guarantee of ever arriving. This completely uncompelling to me. Especially when there's not even a guarantee we'll be locked into future actions.

The metric of stuff we're already doing is also pretty much something that could mean anything. I could easily make the same argument about completing stuff in regards to apparitions, we already started the work when we took the action to learn from Gehenna.
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The difference is this:
dinomannitro6 said:
Boney, do we have an idea if we do the capturing an apparition action but don't make the bindings for it next turn, how safe is it to leave it between actions? Is there an established containment method we can feel secure in, or is it less certain it will be safe to leave it?
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Boney said:
Any given containment method only works for a combination of a type of Apparition and a specific Wind. Mathilde will have to invent a new containment method for anything she catches, and how long a shelf life those methods might have can't be known in advance.
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This Boneypost has made me go from "eh, I'm not super in favor of doing Apparitions now but whatever" to actively against it and hoping it loses. The fact that taking the Apparition action might then lock us into needing to spend an AP on it next turn makes it a no-go for me right now. If we knew that it was "sometime in the next two turns" that would be so much better, because then we could do the binding action after finishing Branarhune next turn, and I would no longer be as worried. But I do think that starting a new self-improvement action chain that locks us in to time-sensitive further actions, before finishing the self-improvement action chain that we are almost done with, is a bad idea that has the potential for making the next turn vote really unpleasant. We're so close to being done with Branarhune, and then we can start a new self-improvement action chain with a clear conscience! But if it turns out we need to do the binding on T42, then we're kind of in a really tight spot: either we kick finishing Branarhune further down the curb (which would stink, because getting our Master Greatswords skill will presumably come with a bonus to Martial and a bunch of narrative benefits), or we cut out doing a personal research action next turn, or we drop down to two Waystone actions for the second turn in a row.
 
picklepikkl said:
The difference is this:


This Boneypost has made me go from "eh, I'm not super in favor of doing Apparitions now but whatever" to actively against it and hoping it loses. The fact that taking the Apparition action might then lock us into needing to spend an AP on it next turn makes it a no-go for me right now. If we knew that it was "sometime in the next two turns" that would be so much better, because then we could do the binding action after finishing Branarhune next turn, and I would no longer be as worried. But I do think that starting a new self-improvement action chain that locks us in to time-sensitive further actions, before finishing the self-improvement action chain that we are almost done with, is a bad idea that has the potential for making the next turn vote really unpleasant. We're so close to being done with Branarhune, and then we can start a new self-improvement action chain with a clear conscience! But if it turns out we need to do the binding on T42, then we're kind of in a really tight spot: either we kick finishing Branarhune further down the curb (which would stink, because getting our Master Greatswords skill will presumably come with a bonus to Martial and a bunch of narrative benefits), or we cut out doing a personal research action next turn, or we drop down to two Waystone actions for the second turn in a row.
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Right, again you don't want to do apparitions, you want to do other stuff. For me the chance, that maybe we'd have to wait a single extra turn to finish off Branarhune (which involves a stretch goal I remind you. If we wanted we could just finish this turn, and perhaps combat use would eventually give us double tap), or just wait until our room of Calamity is restored to minimal safe usage on T43 to do research of liminal realms, is not actually a big deal. In comparison to potentially another 3 year IRL wait to make any progress on apparitions.
 
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I'm just worried that if we delay Apparitions this turn it'll get delayed again next turn, then there's the morbs, and we'll end up with all the momentum lost and it only gets brought up again in a long time.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
If we wanted we could just finish this turn, and perhaps combat use would eventually give us double tap) is not actually a big deal.
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Asking the thread to stop at 110% of an option when 120% is a possibility and takes just one more action I promise is a surprisingly hard sell. Look at the mushroom research for a recent example.
 
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-[] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Rider in Red)
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I just realized that there's two ways to read this line:

1. With Johann, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Rider in Red.

2.With the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Johann. :V
 
Derpmind said:
2.With the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Johann. :V
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"We've seeded the area with workout equipment and an admiring audience of aesthetes of athleticism. Now, we wait..."
...time passes...
"I see a fabled Swolebro in Gold! Quick, surround and bind him with adorable Puppyrat Eyes, just like we practised."
 
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
Honestly, I'm mostly voting this way out of a mix of respect for Pickle and personal (dis)interest
 
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[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
Starting a new action chain that possibly requires a followup in the short term when we have almost completed both AV and Swording doesn't make sense to me.
 
Derpmind said:
I just realized that there's two ways to read this line:

1. With Johann, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Rider in Red.

2.With the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Johann. :V
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Mathilde: "That Greater Demon had me worried, but luckily all WEB-MAT members are entirely trustworthy and beyond the schemes of Warp Entities, isn't that right Rider in Red?"
 
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Welp, that GM post killed apparition binding for... several months out of character probably :(

To be clear I do not blame you guys, I get the hesitation to commit to anything long term when we have no idea what the next turn will throw at us it is just incredibly frustrating that we are taking an action for which the best utility arguments are 'it's next to a place we care about in the short term' and 'we do not know how useful it is until we do it'.
 
Derpmind said:
I just realized that there's two ways to read this line:

1. With Johann, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Rider in Red.

2.With the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Johann. :V
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3. With Joann and the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT members, we're going to capture apparitions. The vote doesn't specify which, so it's probably whoever owes the Rider in Red money.
 
Generally thread pursues one type of self-improvement skill.

Assuming we finish swording this turn or the next that leaves

Arcane mark mastery
Totally not daemnology
Windfall(?)

Atop my head. Arcana mark presumely being more "one turn per mark", while summoming is more of an multi-tier project.

I'm guessing depending on how urgent next turn might be, if we are free or busy would lead into either arcana if busy or summoning if not.

Though personally, i do prefer we keep doing 3 AP on Waystone project.
 
Sa'kage said:
Generally thread pursues one type of self-improvement skill.

Assuming we finish swording this turn or the next that leaves

Arcane mark mastery
Totally not daemnology
Windfall(?)

Atop my head. Arcana mark presumely being more "one turn per mark", while summoming is more of an multi-tier project.

I'm guessing depending on how urgent next turn might be, if we are free or busy would lead into either arcana if busy or summoning if not.

Though personally, i do prefer we keep doing 3 AP on Waystone project.
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Off the top of my head, there's also finishing Advanced Eonir diplomacy (not urgent in any sense but it'd be neat and give us some further understanding to their society) and learning High Nehekharan (necessary for studying our Incredibly Cool And Forbidden vampire books; also ideal for eventually poking Nehekhara to ask about its network).
 
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition

Not 100% happy with the above plan, but I don't think this is the right turn to begin Apparition research, so I'm approval voting for the best option against it.

Edit: Also an approval vote for codifying and swords, seems cool.

[X] Plan Codifying and Swords

[X] Plan: There are now 17 competing standards
-[X] JOHANN: Mapping (Estalia, Tilea)
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact (Waystone Capstone)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Waystone: Foundation (Elrisse, Egrimm, Hatalath, Sarvoi, Thorek)
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter, Aksel)
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundries)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[X] Eike Actions: Windfall paper, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Petty Magics, Weapons Training with the Undumgi
-[X] Contains Overwork

Thoughts-Max on capstone, because I'm still convinced the answer we need is buried somewhere within the Pre-Teclisian alchemists research, and if it isn't, Max is our material science expert anyway, so he's the best person for the job. And before anyone says "Thorek is a dwarf, he knows about metal", dwarves haven't made waystone gold in thousands of years and the knowledge is probably lost, Thorek is not a metalsmith, and he hasn't even told us what the dwarven name for the stuff is. Starting on the Foundation wheel, as that's probably the trickiest part of the whole thing as well. I've also shuffled Eike's actions around—the leading plans have her doing five things, which seems like it's too much to me. I've also moved her martial training to be with the Undumgi, because it exposes her to a unique culture, mirrors Mathilde's own training with the greatswords, and she'll probably learn more from them than help Mathilde master a high level technique.
 
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I would belive you guys about having more important things than apparations if second plan was not mapping action of all thing. Branarhune doesn't even finish in that plan.

I mean i did approval vote for sword plan that makes some sense but other one makes the argument ring hollow.
 
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