Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Bretonnia
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)
I'd prefer going after apparitions that you can catch multiple of in one AP; those being Dark Hounds, Rotwyrms, and Eyes of Nurgle.
So here's the leading plan but with Dark Hounds instead of Red Riders.
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Dark Hounds)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Dark Hounds)
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[X] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[X] Contains Overwork
So here's the leading plan but with Dark Hounds instead of Red Riders.
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Dark Hounds)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Hunt an apparition with a member of WEB-MAT (Johann, Dark Hounds)
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[X] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[X] Contains Overwork
Last edited:
[x] Plan Lore and Metal
- [x] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
- [x] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
- [x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
- [x] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
- [x] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
- [x] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
-- [x] The Gambler
- [x] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
- [x] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
- [x] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
- [x] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
- [x] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
- [x] Eike Study: Petty Magics
- [x] Contains Overwork
- [x] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
- [x] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
- [x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
- [x] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
- [x] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
- [x] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
-- [x] The Gambler
- [x] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
- [x] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
- [x] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
- [x] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
- [x] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
- [x] Eike Study: Petty Magics
- [x] Contains Overwork
It also has no WEB-MAT actions. After we ignored Egrimm last turn.
While the '3 AP on the job' thing is old and arguably outdated we have been told explicitly and recently* that if we need to give our Wizards a task at least two turns out of three.
*recently being within the last few of game turns. It was likely a year ago IRL.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I believe this is the relevant post:
We have Egrimm working on the Waystone capstone. That counts as giving him work through WEB-MAT.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
So, I've been doing some thinking and I've come to the conclusion that doing the Elfcation in the near future might be a good idea.
Mainly in that having as positive a reputation in Ulthuan as possible before they feel the need to come look at the project is probably a very good thing.
"Some random Human Wizard fucking around with Waystones."
Is a much less favourable first impression than.
"That human wizard the Nagarythians thought competent enough to teach magic and bring along to fight Druchii."
Ulthuan will be getting involved once they learn the Druchii are trying to get in on this.
Mainly in that having as positive a reputation in Ulthuan as possible before they feel the need to come look at the project is probably a very good thing.
"Some random Human Wizard fucking around with Waystones."
Is a much less favourable first impression than.
"That human wizard the Nagarythians thought competent enough to teach magic and bring along to fight Druchii."
Ulthuan will be getting involved once they learn the Druchii are trying to get in on this.
Last edited:
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
This is part of why I want branulhune done soon, I would want that done before going on the elfcation.
As I brought up earlier, that's going to be really funny when we make the fog road and undercut them as the trade route into laurelorn.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We assigned Egrimm on the Reikland Nexus and Waystone Rune action, just because he didn't have the spotlight on him doesn't mean we were ignoring him.
That said, yes, it's not a bad idea in general to take the Windfall paper action with him. Mathilde has reason to wish to reassure him that she values him, particularly after the born incident.
Twenty-four hours have passed since the voting started, so I feel obliged to note: people should probably start voting tactically if their ideal vote doesn't seem like it may win but their second choice is still in the running.
Codifying and Swords has relatively little momentum, and it would be a bit hard for it to get 24+ new votes or for enough people to swing their votes, but the regular Windfall edition plan has a much better chance. If anyone prefers that over the Red Rider plan, now's the time to approval vote it.
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Boney, do we have an idea if we do the capturing an apparition action but don't make the bindings for it next turn, how safe is it to leave it between actions? Is there an established containment method we can feel secure in, or is it less certain it will be safe to leave it?
Yeah, probably. But it'd probably take less irl time for boney to write 1 double training scene than 2 single scenes, which might be a factor for people.
Any given containment method only works for a combination of a type of Apparition and a specific Wind. Mathilde will have to invent a new containment method for anything she catches, and how long a shelf life those methods might have can't be known in advance.
I wonder what new and exciting mirror box equivalents we'll invent for the other apparitions.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I take it most apparitions don't have anything like a mirrorcatch box where there's an entirely nonmagical method of containing it.
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] Plan Lore and Metal
Mathilde will research for that sort of thing as part of trying to capture them.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A bit late, but I want to point out that capturing an apparition is going off to fight a dangerous monster, whether or not you consider it to be a multi-turn project. I tend to trust Parabola on this topic (and most topics, but this seems to be something of a particular area of expertise), so I do lean that way, but regardless, it's probably the most dangerous possible way to achieve the goal of "better at fighting".
My opinion is that if you just want extra killiness - as opposed to specifically wanting apparition binding for other reasons, which I know some people do - you should probably be voting for Plan Codifying and Swords. That wraps up our sword style completely (unless it goes so well or badly that we get another stretch goal) and safely gets us an immediate and obvious boost. It's also one less unfinished project on our plate, and has obvious utility for both the Iron Orcs and later attempts to hunt apparitions.
On that note, something that I'm not sure most people have considered with the apparition plan (though it was brought up just now; I've been writing this up off and on most of the day): The apparition used in Gehenna's Golden Hounds comes in packs. Riders in Red, as far as I'm aware, do not. That means that if we want more than a single Shade Knight, we'd most likely need to hunt down and bind multiple ones independently - it's possible that we'd get more than one from a single AP, but since they're not something where you're ordinarily going to encounter several in the same place, I'd consider it unlikely.
This means we'd also run into two other issues. First, can we dynamically add new apparitions of the same type to the resulting spell? I'm dubious that we can, particularly in our first ever attempt at binding an apparition, and even more so when using apparitions that are naturally solitary and a spell that hasn't been codified. If we can't, then I don't think it would require entirely remaking the spell, but it would mean that we'd need to redo parts of the process every time for every Rider we currently have any time we want to add more.
Second, can we even use the same Riders in more than one version that way, or does learning how to summon our single Rider lock it into being used as a single Rider unless we do something drastic like releasing and rebinding it? It's not clear how far "one trick" goes in that regard.
Those problems are bad enough on their own; when you take into account the new information that we can't count on being able to sit on it indefinitely, and are going to have to invent our own containment methods? This very much feels like a project we don't want to start without being able to devote some serious attention to it on an ongoing basis.
My understanding is that that the intent of that vote is for us to co-write the paper with him, but also reassure him that he's free to do so on his own in the future - essentially, while he's competent to write the paper himself, he doesn't seem inclined to do it, so co-writing it in a way that makes it clear he's an equal author (and talking to him in the course of doing so) is our best guess at how to address those insecurities in a way he's comfortable with.
Given the thread has made that intent very clear, I trust Boney to follow through. But I'd certainly be interested in hearing any alternatives you have in mind if you'd prefer a different approach.
Can you explain why? We have multiple independent sources that indicate this is both legal (if sufficient to raise eyebrows amongst those poorly informed about the topic) and not going to corrupt us. These sources have both personal experience with the practice and a long history of outside verification that they're not corrupted, and there isn't any evidence that I'm aware of which contradicts that, so I'm not sure how you're reaching that conclusion.
My opinion is that if you just want extra killiness - as opposed to specifically wanting apparition binding for other reasons, which I know some people do - you should probably be voting for Plan Codifying and Swords. That wraps up our sword style completely (unless it goes so well or badly that we get another stretch goal) and safely gets us an immediate and obvious boost. It's also one less unfinished project on our plate, and has obvious utility for both the Iron Orcs and later attempts to hunt apparitions.
On that note, something that I'm not sure most people have considered with the apparition plan (though it was brought up just now; I've been writing this up off and on most of the day): The apparition used in Gehenna's Golden Hounds comes in packs. Riders in Red, as far as I'm aware, do not. That means that if we want more than a single Shade Knight, we'd most likely need to hunt down and bind multiple ones independently - it's possible that we'd get more than one from a single AP, but since they're not something where you're ordinarily going to encounter several in the same place, I'd consider it unlikely.
This means we'd also run into two other issues. First, can we dynamically add new apparitions of the same type to the resulting spell? I'm dubious that we can, particularly in our first ever attempt at binding an apparition, and even more so when using apparitions that are naturally solitary and a spell that hasn't been codified. If we can't, then I don't think it would require entirely remaking the spell, but it would mean that we'd need to redo parts of the process every time for every Rider we currently have any time we want to add more.
Second, can we even use the same Riders in more than one version that way, or does learning how to summon our single Rider lock it into being used as a single Rider unless we do something drastic like releasing and rebinding it? It's not clear how far "one trick" goes in that regard.
Those problems are bad enough on their own; when you take into account the new information that we can't count on being able to sit on it indefinitely, and are going to have to invent our own containment methods? This very much feels like a project we don't want to start without being able to devote some serious attention to it on an ongoing basis.
My understanding is that that the intent of that vote is for us to co-write the paper with him, but also reassure him that he's free to do so on his own in the future - essentially, while he's competent to write the paper himself, he doesn't seem inclined to do it, so co-writing it in a way that makes it clear he's an equal author (and talking to him in the course of doing so) is our best guess at how to address those insecurities in a way he's comfortable with.
Given the thread has made that intent very clear, I trust Boney to follow through. But I'd certainly be interested in hearing any alternatives you have in mind if you'd prefer a different approach.
Can you explain why? We have multiple independent sources that indicate this is both legal (if sufficient to raise eyebrows amongst those poorly informed about the topic) and not going to corrupt us. These sources have both personal experience with the practice and a long history of outside verification that they're not corrupted, and there isn't any evidence that I'm aware of which contradicts that, so I'm not sure how you're reaching that conclusion.
Last edited:
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
I know I'm not the person making the argument against it, but I can see why the Rider in Red could raise eyebrows or potentially even be risky, considering that the research I've done looking into it have had some people claiming it's an embodiment of Khorne himself.
Of course I assume that's probably not the case since it isn't considered a Demon, but it does have more baggage than many of the other ones.
- Location
- Hiding in the walls.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I took that to be an argument against apparition binding in general, given some other comments; if not, I can understand concerns about the Rider in Red in particular.