Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If we do stick to that, I wonder if there'll be a fight over what the next avenue for improvement will be?
We can start a fight over anything. For instance, do we marry PanPan in a Ranald ceremony, based around bad puns about stealing hearts, or do we marry her in a Jade ceremony, where the wedding party is divided into five separate factions arguing about who should be named in the oaths?
 
... Why? Johann is the one person who knows exactly how this works and wouldn't have any problem with it. It's literally his teacher who we learned it from.
Because we swore to keep the souce of our knowledge a secret to the gold magister patriarch.
Johann may or may not be in on the secret (i suspect not).
But having his master come teach us about the spell she shares a name with, and us than suddenly, developing very similar spell, that just by completely random happenstance, seems to include gluing a warp entity to our soul, well, it ain't the biggest mystery for him to solve.

edit-
Boney's previously said that it "makes sense" to have Johann along on an apparition action.



if it was anyone else, I'd be like "yeah, lets not practice barely legal demonology in front of them", but Johann's fine.
Ok, ignore everything i just said. :V
 
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Anyway, if people are just like "I want to take the first step on this multi-AP chain", OK, fine, vote for the apparitions. But if you want it for specifically Iron Orcing real soon, then you should maybe reconsider.
Second step, since we had to learn it from Gehenna. Arguably the third considering the opportunity cost we gave up for the knowledge.


There may be a long road ahead, but the sunk cost is killing me a little inside. Iron Orcs, who are they supposed to be? Sounds weird and made up to me.
 
Personally, I'm hopeful that the apparition binding is something we can do together with Johann for a little bit. A sounding board for the codification, a spotter for the binding, a partner for the combat testing.

I think the mapping action is superfluous at this point, tbh. It feels like complete makework. Exploring an entirely separate network, like Nehekhara? That seems valuable, and something maybe to work towards with learning the language with Egrimm through WEBMAT in preparation. Tilea, though? I just don't get what we're hoping to find, and what we'd do even if we found it. Nobody's explained.
I'll start by saying that the mapping action isn't the most important or urgent thing in the world, and certainly if we're going to replace any Waystone action for a personal project that one should be the one to go. That said, I believe that it does have value.

The purpose of the mapping is mostly to determine how many weak points in the Old World's network exist so that we can respond to any threats to them. Mapping the Empire, for example, confirmed that Marienburg's nexuses are kind of important to the survival of the Empire. We believe Estalia contains one of only two paths for magic to flow from the Old World to Ulthuan, and if that path is blocked the entire Old World is done for, so mapping it will allow us to know which Estalian cities we can continue not caring about and which Estalian cities are so important that the proper reaction to receiving news that they're in danger is sending an army right away.

Tilea is genuinely less important in that sense, because it probably doesn't connect to the Empire's network (though it might be conneted through Bretonnia). My main concern there is the existence of Skavenblight, which probably contains a nexus and I'll really rather know if any leylines are still connected to it. If, for example, we find that the chain of leylines that starts at the Border Princes and continues into Tilea terminates in Skavenblight, then that means that improving the Waystone network in those areas will also send additional magic to the Skaven. That's the other general thing mapping can give us: it can allow us to discover lost or corrupted nexuses, which is something we'll eventually want to deal it. For example, mapping the Empire would have allowed to discover the Mordheim nexus, if not for the fact that we happened to visit the Gross Selon nexus during the Ostermark mini-arc and so knew about it beforehand.

Regarding the question of what we'll do with what we discover, I think it's true that the project itself won't immediately act on that information, though it could give us some new options e.g. new nexuses we might want to investigate. But if we give the Emperor a list of cities that would doom the Old World if they fell, and then an Everchosen candidate sacked Bilbali or w/e, then he would know to March of the Damned Soldier some poor sods to deal it with right away because it's an existential threat, and that seems like a pretty big win.
 
We can start a fight over anything. For instance, do we marry PanPan in a Ranald ceremony, based around bad puns about stealing hearts, or do we marry her in a Jade ceremony, where the wedding party is divided into five separate factions arguing about who should be named in the oaths?
Have it start out as a Jade ceremony, then watch the growing horror on the factions' faces as it slowly morphs into a Ranaldite one.

That's right, Jades, Mathilde's putting her two cents in! Ranald is both the Earth Mother and the Green Man! :V
 
However, we're spending a Dwarven Boon that would normally only get us Metalsmith guild related products in exchange for the right to copy several libraries, if not all of them. That's a much better exchange rate.
Also there aren't that many libraries in the (rough) historical time period but there ones that did exist where prestige objects or parts of big centers of learning (universities and convents)

Well I'm still all in on the Library... its just that the apparent difficulty makes the original Transcendent Boon and now the metalsmith Major Boon seem like less of a massive deal than they should be (and those boons should each be a big deal - they represent a lot of Dawi saved from certain or near certain death). It feels like the Dawi are sort of pacing themselves just a bit too well which is a bit jarring compared to serious thread worries in the boon vote about K8P breaking itself to fulfil it.

Hopefully the metalsmiths take their obligations seriously and we get all the books in Nuln. All of them. That could get the ball rolling with some other partnerships.


I'll start by saying that the mapping action isn't the most important or urgent thing in the world, and certainly if we're going to replace any Waystone action for a personal project that one should be the one to go. That said, I believe that it does have value.

There's always stuff that has value but Mathilde becoming a better wizard has a lot of value and on the meta level is a lot cooler than raising the chance of saving 2000 Estalians by 15%.


[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)
 
I'll start by saying that the mapping action isn't the most important or urgent thing in the world, and certainly if we're going to replace any Waystone action for a personal project that one should be the one to go. That said, I believe that it does have value.

The purpose of the mapping is mostly to determine how many weak points in the Old World's network exist so that we can respond to any threats to them. Mapping the Empire, for example, confirmed that Marienburg's nexuses are kind of important to the survival of the Empire. We believe Estalia contains one of only two paths for magic to flow from the Old World to Ulthuan, and if that path is blocked the entire Old World is done for, so mapping it will allow us to know which Estalian cities we can continue not caring about and which Estalian cities are so important that the proper reaction to receiving news that they're in danger is sending an army right away.

Tilea is genuinely less important in that sense, because it probably doesn't connect to the Empire's network (though it might be conneted through Bretonnia). My main concern there is the existence of Skavenblight, which probably contains a nexus and I'll really rather know if any leylines are still connected to it. If, for example, we find that the chain of leylines that starts at the Border Princes and continues into Tilea terminates in Skavenblight, then that means that improving the Waystone network in those areas will also send additional magic to the Skaven. That's the other general thing mapping can give us: it can allow us to discover lost or corrupted nexuses, which is something we'll eventually want to deal it. For example, mapping the Empire would have allowed to discover the Mordheim nexus, if not for the fact that we happened to visit the Gross Selon nexus during the Ostermark mini-arc and so knew about it beforehand.

Regarding the question of what we'll do with what we discover, I think it's true that the project itself won't immediately act on that information, though it could give us some new options e.g. new nexuses we might want to investigate. But if we give the Emperor a list of cities that would doom the Old World if they fell, and then an Everchosen candidate sacked Bilbali or w/e, then he would know to March of the Damned Soldier some poor sods to deal it with right away because it's an existential threat, and that seems like a pretty big win.

The thing is we have no plans in the near or even the mid future to do anything with Tilea, so there is no real concern that we might empower the Skaven or the like. We do not know anyone there, we do not care about anyone there and it's farther south than the places we do care about so less magic over all. As for the Empire playing world police to save random Tilean cities, that is not its job, it is Ulthuan's job at least until the Empire gets its own house in order and it is no longer 1-2 fallen nexuses from turning into the Chaos Wastes itself.

At least that is my take on it.
 
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So just write off the whole thing, pretend we threw away all that Skaven research materials in a surge of fear? I don't think that will get much traction without actual proof that it is corrupting.

I want to just write off losing all the skaven reasearch as an error when we should have grabed sevirscope instead yeah. Instead of throwing good ap after bad.
 
I want to just write off losing all the skaven reasearch as an error when we should have grabed sevirscope instead yeah. Instead of throwing good ap after bad.

I mean if we actually think that it is daemonology that means we really should tell on at least the Golds, Gehanna is a ticking time bomb who belongs on the pyre and so is everyone who knows that spell. It cannot just be demonology for us an not for them. We really should be spending an AP on that and not mapping Tilea.
 
I want to just write off losing all the skaven reasearch as an error when we should have grabed sevirscope instead yeah. Instead of throwing good ap after bad.
Lets not re-litigate past votes since it is rather rude but also because if we get in to doing that, I have rather strong feelings about Divine AV we gave up on and I don't want another thread ban.
 
I just don't want to do "i can't believe its not demonology" on the grounds that I don't actually buy the idea that it isn't demonology.
Well, if anyone can confirm it one way or the other, it'll be Mathilde The Concerningly Surprisingly Knowledgable About Dark Magic.

While we're on the topic of possibly corrupted wizards, how quick do we think Mathilde would bring out the fire if she found another wizard with something like the Liber Mortis?
 
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Well I'm still all in on the Library... its just that the apparent difficulty makes the original Transcendent Boon and now the metalsmith Major Boon seem like less of a massive deal than they should be (and those boons should each be a big deal - they represent a lot of Dawi saved from certain or near certain death). It feels like the Dawi are sort of pacing themselves just a bit too well which is a bit jarring compared to serious thread worries in the boon vote about K8P breaking itself to fulfil it.
My big thing with the metalsmithing guild boon is that i really have no clue what else to use it one. Like maybe using it on the capstone but from my understanding we are probably getting every bit of dwarf knowledge there if necessary Because we are a capital F dwarf Friend and Thorek is also there.

So if we don't suddenly have a small arms to equip i really got nothing for that boon...
 
Wonder what kind of boon it would take to get dwarves to help the empire start reproducing steam tanks? Presumably that'd be engineers, not metalsmiths.
 
There's always stuff that has value but Mathilde becoming a better wizard has a lot of value and on the meta level is a lot cooler than raising the chance of saving 2000 Estalians by 15%.
I mean, the point being made was "doing this to help save the entire Old World if something happens to that one Estalian town".

It's just that the method to save the continent would involve saving Estalians.
 
Wonder what kind of boon it would take to get dwarves to help the empire start reproducing steam tanks? Presumably that'd be engineers, not metalsmiths.
I think Boney said that Dwarves would not give up their secrets even if they examined the tanks and replicated it, but it occurs to me that as long as Dwarves do sell the parts and new tanks to Empire that is... fine. Like plenty of countries IRL buy their tanks wholesale so why not Empire?

Honestly trying to make everything in house is not always the right strategy, I mean K8P does buy human made canons so why not Empire buy Dwarven made Tanks?
Edit:
My big thing with the metalsmithing guild boon is that i really have no clue what else to use it one.
Want to examine the Phonix Crown and make a replica? Or examine its enchantments?
 
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The thing is we have no plans in the near or even the mid future to do anything with Tilea, so there is no real concern that we might empower the Skaven or the like. We do not know anyone there, we do not care about anyone there and it's farther south than the places we do care about so less magic over all. As for the Empire playing world police to save random Tilean cities, that is not its job, it is Ulthuan's job at least until the Empire gets its own house in order and it is no longer 1-2 fallen nexuses from turning into the Chaos Wastes itself.

At least that is my take on it.
We have no plans to do stuff with Tilea, but we might do stuff with the Border Princes (as part of the dwarven efforts to make things stable there) and the Border Princes nexuses connect to Tilea. And it's possible that Tilea also connects to the Bretonnia, though I think it probably flows from Tilea to Bretonnia if it's connected at all.

Regarding the Empire protecting Estalian cities, saying "it was Ulthuan's job to save us" isn't really going to make us less dead. Now, as Mathilde herself said to the Empire during the social turn, Ulthuan will probably take care of that if it comes to it, but it's not impossible that something drastic happens and Ulthuan gets distracted - say, a massive Druchii invasion. That might sound far-fetched, but a little bird just told us that things could be getting hectic in the not too distant future.
 
I think Boney said that Dwarves would not give up their secrets even if they examined the tanks and replicated it, but it occurs to me that as long as Dwarves do sell the parts and new tanks to Empire that is... fine. Like plenty of countries IRL buy their tanks wholesale so why not Empire?

Honestly trying to make everything in house is not always the right strategy, I mean K8P does buy human made canons so why not Empire buy Dwarven made Tanks?
Edit:

Want to examine the Phonix Crown and make a replica? Or examine its enchantments?
Probably not under the purview of the metalsmithing guild. Like, they could probably make an effort... But just not an efficient use of resources... Also the phoenix crown is low on my lists of "things to examine"
 
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