Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Imo, Zhengui could kill the jungle. Their philosophies actually have a lot of overlap, but they both differ and overlap in ways that are to his advantage. Bloody Evolution and Destructive Renewal. Both tear down the old through violence, through destructive acts. Both strive towards an elevated existence.

However, Zhengui's methods are more distinctly transformative. It has its certain biases and perspectives on things, but his metaphor is friendlier to shifting paradigms, to changing the rules of the game itself. Transmuting one state of affairs to a different one entirely. Now, part of this is probably because he's still young, and he isn't yet rooted in an environment that shapes his identity while he shapes its. Flexibility and openness to more abstract embodiments, and more importantly varied outcomes, isn't something he necessarily needs to shed, though.

But that by itself probably couldn't overcome the jungle. It's a post-White entity. No, where the opportunity shines is that Zhengui's methods are close enough to her own philosophy that he might have a real chance at burning her down and growing something new from the ashes. He'd be playing a game by rules close enough to hers that it's less of a fight, ironically, to impose his own conclusions to their overlapping Ways. Maybe!


[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.

I dunno, this option just feels more concrete. At minimum in terms of worldbuilding, but also in terms of what is. What might be is important to know, but as one of Ling Qi's insights goes, The future changes with every step, never be certain you know what is coming (Causality, Mystery, Chaos). I'm less interested in banking on a vision of the future which may not bear out than I am in getting a solid grasp of things as they are. As another of Ling Qi's insights goes, Even walking alone, footfalls echo beyond your hearing. (Community, Causality, Expression). I think this is the choice which is closer to walking with them, or at least studying the sounds of their steps, so that we might navigate the dark reaches of Possibility with a more confident understanding of our fellow travelers, maybe catching echoes that would otherwise be too faint for our understanding sans familiarity.

It also feels more relevant for manipulating jungle folk on an individual level making buddies, maybe! Yay buddies!
 
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[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.

As a communication focused cultivator, she should be able to get the gist of their arts and philosophy underlying them without whole lot of issues.
 
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[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on May 17, 2023 at 7:21 AM, finished with 55 posts and 26 votes.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.

I feel like, rather than attempting to explain the nominal differences between Sun Shao's and the original jungle inhabitants' cultivation, giving the Pines a more concrete explanation of the West's reach and objectives will work better to assuage their concerns.

Now, Ji Rong's testimony about the Western soldiers's belief regarding their relationship with the Jungle Goddess confirms something I had thought about before.
If Sun Shao's "marriage" and Liling's "adoption" come to light, the western soldiers may very well rebel and deflect back to the empire.

As much as they hated the Bai, the westerns also hated the original Red Jungle inhabitants just as much. They followed Sun Shao because they genuinely thought he would be able to wipe them out and conquer the Jungle.
The actual effectiveness of their method is irrelevant (that's the conundrum of being in conflict with the embodiment of conflict). They sincerely believe that they are the ones to finally lie the Goddess low.

That's why Sun Shao's actions are a betrayal of the highest order. By accepting the Goddess as their Sublime Ancestor, he is renouncing to getting rid of her. Instead, he is turning the Western Territories into the barbarians they so much wanted to exterminate.
Some of the higher ups may already be aware. But, give how recent of a development it is, I think it more likely that many will literally explode when they found out due to broken Ways.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Dig into the philosophy of their arts more, in relation to the Red Goddess. Not the secrets which would never be shared, but their outward purpose. If she could articulate that well and truthfully it might settle the Twisted Pine's nerves.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
If Sun Shao's "marriage" and Liling's "adoption" come to light, the western soldiers may very well rebel and deflect back to the empire.
I think you are underestimating the personal loyalty Shao's soldiers will have to the man who led them to victory in battle against the Jungle and the Bai.

I also think they would need the backing of at least one 8th realm patron for a statistically significant number of them to survive leaving. Sun Shao couldn't let them, in terms of his Way and in terms of politics and economics.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
[X] Use interrogations of the Jungle Goddess to seek after what the Western Territories feels like they are aiming for. Try to grasp what it is they want to build on the corpse of a slain god. Having the Sun's aim in mind can only help negotiations.
 
As much as they hated the Bai, the westerns also hated the original Red Jungle inhabitants just as much. They followed Sun Shao because they genuinely thought he would be able to wipe them out and conquer the Jungle.
The actual effectiveness of their method is irrelevant (that's the conundrum of being in conflict with the embodiment of conflict). They sincerely believe that they are the ones to finally lie the Goddess low.

That's why Sun Shao's actions are a betrayal of the highest order. By accepting the Goddess as their Sublime Ancestor, he is renouncing to getting rid of her. Instead, he is turning the Western Territories into the barbarians they so much wanted to exterminate.
Some of the higher ups may already be aware. But, give how recent of a development it is, I think it more likely that many will literally explode when they found out due to broken Ways.

Though I agree with this there is another way of looking at the situation. They are still 'conquering' the Western Territories. They have brought it under nominal compliance with the Qin Celestial Empire and are in the process of incorporating the strengths the Jungle brings.

They're 'Civilizing' The Goddess, progessively shifting her towards are more Imperial thought process through her interaction with the Ways of cultivators. It's been proven that Spirits evolve with and in response to the humans inhabiting their lands. She is still currently a 'Barbarian Spirit' but over time she will be shifted just as the Sun and Moon Spirits in the Emerald Sea have.

It's a 'as above, so below; as below, so above' situation. It's Sun Shao that is rushing a process which should take millenia and in so doing is becomeing more 'Barbarian', well more than he would have been.

Edit: Also can someone explain the Thief of Names thing. I've read the Tribulation but could someone explain it to me?
 
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