Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
It's not that its sole effect is to advance stages, but that the other effects really aren't that useful if we complete it a mere one month earlier, given that we need all available actions and thus both actions the turn after it would be completed.
We have no reason whatsoever to believe that the summit will give us any free peasantpower.
I've currently sketched Quarry + Palisade as the first thing we do after the 6-turn plan. If next turn we decide to switch to the 7-turn plan and do Quarry early, there will be even less to compete with Palisade if we think we need it (so you could start proselytizing for the 7-turn plan). The main danger is actually "what if we need W for something else?". Also keep in mind that apparently we have to explicitly upgrade to Hamlet, so we actually will have time to upgrade defenses ahead of time.
With the VotE and Zhengui bonuses we got this chapter, once we're a Hamlet we'll have the following Defense:
- CRX: +50
- GG: +25
- XL: +25
- LQ: +15
- Manor: +10
- VotE: +10
- ZG: +5
- total: 140
With 8P assigned to A (assuming just 2 hired), we'll have a predicted 1+3+4.5+2=10.5A income (or 9.5A if we end up choosing low-A animals for some reason) income it will no longer be critical to upgrade production to avoid hemorrhaging basic resources (but we'll still do it if it gives us essential P). Since we'll still be using hired manpower (likely beyond the current limit of 10 total) we'll even be able to use the quarry as well. We will mainly need to upgrade production further if we're going to upgrade P much more though, but that's most likely as a side-effect of improving our A anyway since we can afford a decent amount of hired manpower; how much depends on the ongoing cost of Palisade.
Note that regardless of what we do, once we use up our buffers we won't be able to afford to actually do projects every turn; predicted capital ability is on the order of one project per year. The order we do our pre-Hamlet projects in doesn't really affect that much.
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Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Really? You think this summit's going to end without us being in at least one additional war? With Liling and the MoI here for the purpose of starting more wars?
Although in terms of resources wouldn't the optimial outcome be getting the quarry up and running this turn mean we be producing atleast +4 material a turn, so by time were getting to hamlet we have good buffer of material to suport us otherwise we'll end up spending over half of our material stockpile before even getting to hamlet even built, plus those pop drives will get more costly if were forced to get them if theirs not enough permant manpower from other buildings.
[X] Plan: A Funny Name
[X] Plan: We Built This City On Rocks And Docks
[X] Plan: A Funny Name
[X] Plan: We Built This City On Rocks And Docks
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If you think our material surplus is running low, you need to go recount how well our agricultural surplus is holding out.
Long story short: we're likely to run out of food first, with it potentially running out entirely before the hamlet gets built.
Once you account for upkeep costs, all of our currently existing production buildings are net zero production - subsistence farms and fishing convert one food into one food (per worker), and the quarry converts one food into one rock. Building the docks at least mean fishing is getting us a net of +.25 food per worker.
Now, in the short run, we're getting around that by using Wealth - the stat we'll need to support Ling Qi and company's cultivation in the long term - to import food. But I wouldn't bet on that staying working if a war breaks out; defenses defend our fief, not the roads to our fief we're importing food on.
That's a plan, but it's the 7-turn approach since we already need 12 projects without Quarry (technically we could do it in 11 if we skip Docks+Boats and instead do an extra Pop Drive, but the increasing cost of PDs would drain significantly more resources and leave us with negative A income). If we get Quarry we can't staff Pasture (or perhaps Fields; we don't know exactly what Pasture's income will be) before we level up the fief, so we get less A income. Since A feeds our P, I prefer to have more of it, even ignoring the turn difference. Assuming we don't end up choosing maximum hired P (I think we initially will, but e.g. Tiny Quarry will increase workable slots), we'll be able to trade off A vs M at any time.
Even within the 7-turn plan, Quarry this exact turn isn't critical compared to doing Quarry next turn; the A-focused plans for this turn have some good unlocks that will help us refine the plan.
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Hmm, while limited to 10 pops, if 8P and admin center is all we need then it is ideal to deley admin center till last so we can move a pop to then to maxmize their production.
Fields + Fishing + Grannary will take up 7 pops, that leads either going quarry and tiny quarry to efficentizing it so we can move pop off of it for pastures or ignoring the quarry line till after admin center.
Both fishing upgrades will likely give us 1.5 agriculture per manpower so that's good, While fields upgrade probally gives 1.25 or 1.5 per manpower or also unlock slots. While pastures is wildcard.
Fields + Fishing + Grannary will take up 7 pops, that leads either going quarry and tiny quarry to efficentizing it so we can move pop off of it for pastures or ignoring the quarry line till after admin center.
Both fishing upgrades will likely give us 1.5 agriculture per manpower so that's good, While fields upgrade probally gives 1.25 or 1.5 per manpower or also unlock slots. While pastures is wildcard.
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
In the short run, our stockpile is enough to last a couple of years if we have to switch from investing it to eating it, even if we didn't have enough production to keep nearly food-neutral. Assuming our hirelings converted to normal pops, anyway. It's possible we'd have to drop them entirely, but that'd put us at wealth neutral unless someone's family cuts her off.
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I think that one letter abbreviations for fief stats are too short for easy reading. I find that they get lost amidst the words that surround them. If other can see the same thing I suggest that future fief discussions use something a little longer, so that the abrevs dnt gt camouflaged within the morass of the innovative T terrain.
For Fields, given that we're explicitly in an area with merely "average" A, I'm assuming less. But on the 6-turn plan we can't afford to take a fields upgrade anyway unless it gives P. On the 7-turn plan we might, though it will fight with the second Quarry (and, if we do Admin Center early, Palisade). Note that if Boats turns out to take 2 months we'll be forced onto the 7-month plan.
Pastures is explicitly a choice ("event" just meaning there'll be a post and vote). No doubt there will be various A but I'm sure will get at least 0.5/P; my speculation is that there might be W as well, and maybe even Hap or special Def effects like the thing we just completed?
And a brief reply to others:
- You can take my 1-letter abbreviations
fromwhen you start being the one doing the math. I only use 4 of them for the most basic resources that go into projects: A(griculture), M(aterial), (man)P(ower)~=P(opulation), W(ealth); for everything else I use 3 letters for even if unambiguous. - Our stockpile will only last about 1 year if we're actually doing the projects needed for Hamlet. (Also, the "current" numbers were wrong by about 25A at post time and I still think they're off by 1.) Post-Hamlet projects means we'll stop doing projects entirely a couple months later.
- Keep in mind that if we hadn't lucked out into starting with those stockpiles, it would've taken years to get even where we are (assuming Baron Unlovedbyheaven somehow got 50M to make it past Military Outpost, it costs 25 months of default Resource Outpost income before you can afford a Subsistence Fishery
, and another 10 to actually convince someone to go fishing(edit: Fishery gives a free P) - and that's assuming no disasters! but we need Docks before it actually gives a profit), let alone build a manor. Building a manor in 10 vs 11 total months (we first set foot there in turn 14) is really no difference. I should write a script to actually do the math for a full Hamlet push starting from scratch ...
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Personally, when it comes to the pastures, I'd really like to get a textiles option. Sheep, maybe, for the wool - but, like, xianxia sheep.
Traditionally, subsistence agriculture is very labor intensive... at certain times of the year; the rest of the time, there's not much to do. Great if you've got plentiful stores and have readily available entertainment, but subsistence agriculture isn't known for either of those. Textiles, meanwhile, are traditionally very labor intensive - and that labor can be done at entirely different times of year than bringing in the harvest, and the surplus makes for a profitable export.
Traditionally, subsistence agriculture is very labor intensive... at certain times of the year; the rest of the time, there's not much to do. Great if you've got plentiful stores and have readily available entertainment, but subsistence agriculture isn't known for either of those. Textiles, meanwhile, are traditionally very labor intensive - and that labor can be done at entirely different times of year than bringing in the harvest, and the surplus makes for a profitable export.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
[X] Plan: Where We Dump the Leftovers & Paperwork
Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Well, it'll stop being subsistence agriculture once we upgrade it.
Anyway, these number communicate well that keeping a fief is a fucking trap if you don't have political support. We're lucky the last emperor left behind his hate of social mobility when he hit White, I guess.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
On second thought, I forgot about narrative coherency and decided that the Admin center works best.
[X] Plan: Where We Dump the Leftovers & Paperwork
Would it mess up the maths a bit? Yes. But I don't want to go do a vote how many months from now with a wague recollection of this. The fief actions are meant to be a fun mini-game so far, but writing a coherent book is more fun to me.
Plus, again, ignoring the maths fir resources, I just want the admin center out of the way. Not because it's a prerequisite for the hamlet, but because it's a huge timesink, and I'd rather finish that sooner than later to save time
Anyway, for the admin location, I'm with GG on doing it up in the mountains for defense since the admin is the total center. With Veins of Earth, I'm sure that we'll still be able to get access to vital resources like water.
But I also know that Renxiang's ideal city system is a strong core, with cities that expand our from it, so building it in the mists has some merit.
Ultimately, I support GG because he's a guardian for the people and thinks about stuff like this since he's had experience with it.
Edit: Plus I think an admin center would pair really well with House of Ling, and give us a timeline for when the Ling clan officially move to Snowblossom.
Edit2: Plus, I can't resist a nudge from Yrs
[X] Plan: Where We Dump the Leftovers & Paperwork
Would it mess up the maths a bit? Yes. But I don't want to go do a vote how many months from now with a wague recollection of this. The fief actions are meant to be a fun mini-game so far, but writing a coherent book is more fun to me.
Plus, again, ignoring the maths fir resources, I just want the admin center out of the way. Not because it's a prerequisite for the hamlet, but because it's a huge timesink, and I'd rather finish that sooner than later to save time
Anyway, for the admin location, I'm with GG on doing it up in the mountains for defense since the admin is the total center. With Veins of Earth, I'm sure that we'll still be able to get access to vital resources like water.
But I also know that Renxiang's ideal city system is a strong core, with cities that expand our from it, so building it in the mists has some merit.
Ultimately, I support GG because he's a guardian for the people and thinks about stuff like this since he's had experience with it.
Edit: Plus I think an admin center would pair really well with House of Ling, and give us a timeline for when the Ling clan officially move to Snowblossom.
Edit2: Plus, I can't resist a nudge from Yrs
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WhoTheHeckity
But no one ever asks HowTheHeckity
- Location
- Murica 🦅
[X] Plan: Where We Dump the Leftovers & Paperwork
- Pronouns
- he him
[X] Plan: Where We Dump the Leftovers & Paperwork
Yeah, much as it pains me to admit, with the revealed pop requirements for Hamlet it really does push us to take things steady and make sure our foundations are solid. When, last turn, we planned to start Admin centre now we were doing it under the assumption that that would line up with all the foundational work we had remaining. But now we've got way more stuff we need to do and need to adjust.
[X] Plan: Funny name
-[X] Subsistence Granary
-[X] Fishing Docks
[X] Plan: Funny name
-[X] Subsistence Granary
-[X] Fishing Docks
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
hasn't been paying attention to what's going on with the vote at all
You know what, here.
[X] Erebeal
You know what, here.
[X] Erebeal
- Location
- Staring into the void
Tbh I kind of feel like we should be getting a quarry set up from an RP standpoint because not having a local quarry when we're doing all this building work is kind of silly. Like what are we doing? Carting piles of stone up the mountains when we've got good stone right here?
It's just that with how things are set out the quarry is garbage and would take most of the year just to pay its own costs back, and more importantly we can't build it without delaying Hamlet.
I'd argue that having a local quarry should provide like idk a construction speed bonus or something to reflect its convenience, but the only thing that could affect would be the Admin centre.
... although if building the quarry did allows us to shave 1 turn off the admin centre's construction then that would be cool O.O
It's just that with how things are set out the quarry is garbage and would take most of the year just to pay its own costs back, and more importantly we can't build it without delaying Hamlet.
I'd argue that having a local quarry should provide like idk a construction speed bonus or something to reflect its convenience, but the only thing that could affect would be the Admin centre.
... although if building the quarry did allows us to shave 1 turn off the admin centre's construction then that would be cool O.O
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, the Materials we have are already there. I assume that means they're there and thus we've already shipped them. Not building a quarry when you have a bunch of building materials in piles right nearby makes in-universe sense to me.
When I'm not on my phone, I'll track down the quote from the narrative where Ling Qi notes people surveying for a quarry site specifically to help build stuff like the admin center.
Gonna be a total pain to track down though with how atomized fief stuff is.
Edit: couldn't find it through non-exhaustive searches, and I'm too exhausted for exhaustive searches, so I cannot confirm this is a real thing and not the fevered dreams of a madman.
Gonna be a total pain to track down though with how atomized fief stuff is.
Edit: couldn't find it through non-exhaustive searches, and I'm too exhausted for exhaustive searches, so I cannot confirm this is a real thing and not the fevered dreams of a madman.
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