Automatic successes in reading his poker face? Poor Harry, he'll never be able to hide anything from us.
Only when you have All Things Betray up, otherwise the DC is 5.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Only when you have All Things Betray up, otherwise the DC is 5.
- Location
- Germany
On the matter of looting, do things like body armor, rifles and other mundane equipment matter here?
I'm not sure on the prices, but these guys seem to have had at least few thousand bucks worth of material here.
Would it lessen our debt with Monoc if they were allowed to take the mundane loot, or is that amount neglegible in the total amount of money we are already making with diamonds?
I'm not sure on the prices, but these guys seem to have had at least few thousand bucks worth of material here.
Would it lessen our debt with Monoc if they were allowed to take the mundane loot, or is that amount neglegible in the total amount of money we are already making with diamonds?
Not meaningfully no, you have Resources 4, that is more than enough not to sweat looting mundane weapons for cash.
Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
Typo.
And something with this sentence went wrong.
Fixed, thanks.
Just in terms of potential solutions here, I think the easiest bet is simply to claim ignorance.
Spinning elaborate lies leaves data for people to poke at and find holes in. Keeping it simple and not saying anything that can be used to pin a contradiction on you is harder to take apart that way.
Plus Murphy's entire department exists to cover up weird stuff, which heavily implies that the cops will bury strange enough cases.
J claims he had a fight with his girlfriend and was so upset he screwed off out of town for a while. Comes back and hears he died and they have a body. He doesn't know what the hell is going on any more than they do.
Does this require him to have done stupid and weird stuff for an extended period of time? Yes. Would any alibi we give him be full of holes? Absolutely.
But DF authorities basically want to be lied to about this stuff. If it stays obvious supernatural mystery they'll mark it down as something that only makes sense if you don't think about it and move on. They overlook obviously inhuman vampire corpses, they can mark down a perfect body double as a freak coincidence, unknown evil twin, or simply a question mark to become a new cold case.
So, going back to Fivefold Court, since we got a ruling that ~ 1 billion is a soft cap on the total population, I need to make adjustments.
First, let me write out my math:
1) I assume that each citizen of the court has, on average, 40 square meters of living space to call their own.
2) I assume that only one third (1/3) of the city is residential areas. Everything else is commerce, industry, agriculture, etc.
3) I assume that 1/20th of the surface area in the residential area is covered in actual residential buildings.
4) Since this is meant to be advanced futuristic society, average building height will be taken as 42 stories. That's at the very bottom of the modern definition of skyscraper.
This gives me the following equation to calculate the diameter of the city, roughly: sqrt(4*(X*40*3*10/42)/Pi).
Assuming 300 million per city, i.e. each city being as large as the United States population and the total population being a bit higher than China, I get the diameter of the city as roughly 147 km, let's call it 150 km even.
This gives me several options:
1) Keep the size as Vast, but reduce the relative part Cities take. I don't want to reduce the size of the forest belt below 600 km, as that size allows for distinct ecosystems to exist. The biggest change would be than now the belt wouldn't be separated into 5 distinct sectors, with city columns acting as separators. This can probably be worked around by making some mountain ranges around the columns, sorta like what would happen if you have driven the columns through the ground with force.
2) Reduce the size to Huge, and use the point opened up for either Bottleneck or Non-Eculidian features.
Though, I want to point out that the direct comparison between hells, fae and our world are doomed to failure. There are no unseelie farmers, scientists, poets, and sportsmen. Fae are not a functioning society, not really, not in a way modern world is. Absent contact with modern mundane world, Mab's troops would be reduced to, at best, flintlock rifles, or, more likely, bows and swords, and copper ones at that. It takes vastly more people to run modern world than it took stone age civilization.
First, let me write out my math:
1) I assume that each citizen of the court has, on average, 40 square meters of living space to call their own.
2) I assume that only one third (1/3) of the city is residential areas. Everything else is commerce, industry, agriculture, etc.
3) I assume that 1/20th of the surface area in the residential area is covered in actual residential buildings.
4) Since this is meant to be advanced futuristic society, average building height will be taken as 42 stories. That's at the very bottom of the modern definition of skyscraper.
This gives me the following equation to calculate the diameter of the city, roughly: sqrt(4*(X*40*3*10/42)/Pi).
Assuming 300 million per city, i.e. each city being as large as the United States population and the total population being a bit higher than China, I get the diameter of the city as roughly 147 km, let's call it 150 km even.
This gives me several options:
1) Keep the size as Vast, but reduce the relative part Cities take. I don't want to reduce the size of the forest belt below 600 km, as that size allows for distinct ecosystems to exist. The biggest change would be than now the belt wouldn't be separated into 5 distinct sectors, with city columns acting as separators. This can probably be worked around by making some mountain ranges around the columns, sorta like what would happen if you have driven the columns through the ground with force.
2) Reduce the size to Huge, and use the point opened up for either Bottleneck or Non-Eculidian features.
Though, I want to point out that the direct comparison between hells, fae and our world are doomed to failure. There are no unseelie farmers, scientists, poets, and sportsmen. Fae are not a functioning society, not really, not in a way modern world is. Absent contact with modern mundane world, Mab's troops would be reduced to, at best, flintlock rifles, or, more likely, bows and swords, and copper ones at that. It takes vastly more people to run modern world than it took stone age civilization.
- Location
- Germany
[X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and let them go back to Lady Eiko
[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
This is a fair point, but I still think fifty billion is a bit too overwhelming. I would be willing to go up to 5 billion, though you would be much more limited on what you can deploy off world.
[X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and let them go back to Lady Eiko
[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.
RVD our way in (Murphy can sneak us in easily). Deploy cyberdevils to fool cameras. Pick up body, RVD our way out.
[X] [AFTERMATH] You have a suggestion: Write in:
-[X] Let J come up with some simple story, don't even try to explain the corpse. He was out of town, everything else is the kind of weirdness that nobody really wants to investigate.
-[X] Offer, but do not suggest, to make the body disappear without trace, if it existing is an issue for Murphy or Butters.
RVD our way in (Murphy can sneak us in easily). Deploy cyberdevils to fool cameras. Pick up body, RVD our way out.
Oh, that solves all the issues. I did not expect to deploy armies anyway. So, roughly 1 billion per city, let's say 1/30th of the surface area is buildings (that's actually far more reasonable, I feel), the residential areas are only 1/4th of the city, and the average building height is 20 stories (this still leaves us with skyscrapers), and that makes the city radius at 550 kilometers. Entirely workable, I won't even need to make a new version, I'll just adjust some numbers.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [AKUMA] Reattach their limbs and let them go back to Lady Eiko
It's in character for a daughter of a Knight to show mercy, so this shouldn't damage our ruse with Eiko. We can probably demand wergild or something according to custom.
Plus I don't think Murphy would be excited about extra judicial executions...
It's in character for a daughter of a Knight to show mercy, so this shouldn't damage our ruse with Eiko. We can probably demand wergild or something according to custom.
Plus I don't think Murphy would be excited about extra judicial executions...
Wonder if the sorcery spell to break binding can free the Akuma. If it does it worth spending the 10xp to get. Being able to free lesser akuma would be a big deal, and get us a small army.
- Location
- washington
one part I disagree is on the poets fae most definitely have those they are often good with their word games. Plus you know they have some industry just you know its weird fae industry. Mind you there are more fae than summer and winter court we have no fucking idea what the svartalfs are really and whatever other things exist. Plus there are at minimum dozens of different fae species.
- Location
- washington
I mean I hope to deploy an army (also utility like scholars, craftsmen, advisors, negotiators, etc etc) long term it'd take us months or something to deploy it with that one charm and to be able to handle the logistics of it. But, its something with rules as written is possible in the game with some additional charm. Just you know still need gm approval. Not like something to eclipse the world. But, an army comparable to winters over time and transition would be nice.
That is true, and, I guess, tooth faery could be considered a dentist, but I think my point stands - fae society are primitive societies, mostly tribal level, and they don't maintain advanced technological lifestyles, which requires a number of professions not otherwise existing. Civil fae society exists, but you are very unlikely to see fae cab driver, fae hair stylist (ok, maybe not that one), fair designer, engineer, programmer, etc. All those cogs in the machine of the modern civilizations.
- Location
- washington
Oh I totally get you just that one caveat also yeah hair stylist probably is something some fae do. Some fae are likely to the knowledge of beauty what figures like Ebenezer are too wizards.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Mercy in this instance will only be seen as weakness, and make no mistake, it actually will be a real weakness. It sends the wrong message to Emma-O and anyone else who learns of what happened here.
The shit this group got up to in Chicago, the people they killed and/or victimized, the plans they were a part of enacting...fixing them and turning them loose is simply ridiculous. So what if we're Michael's daughter? We are not Michael and we don't have a god-mandated duty to redeem anyone or anything.
The shit this group got up to in Chicago, the people they killed and/or victimized, the plans they were a part of enacting...fixing them and turning them loose is simply ridiculous. So what if we're Michael's daughter? We are not Michael and we don't have a god-mandated duty to redeem anyone or anything.
It's worth considering what Charity said on this too. A kindness to these people is arguably a cruelty to their future victims.
I don't really want to just kill them all, but even if they don't have a choice but to be monsters they still are and will remain so till stopped. Sometimes there are reasons to do that anyway, but what pressures exist here?
If @Earth-Destroyer is right then freeing them from Emma-O and taking them over ourselves would be a viable alternative, but I'm not sure if their soul contracts are valid targets for it.
They have cities to be fair, and nations with millions of citizens per WoJ. They aren't technologically advanced, but magic fills a lot of gaps for them.
It's worth noting that they arm, armor, and feed their soldiers themselves. The food could be mortal, but faerie equipment isn't something you can get from mortals.
There are factions that are basically powerful leeches and nothing else, but the big fey courts and other powers with substantial nevernever holdings tend towards being functional nations that have substantial unfair advantages over the mortals.
1)History does not translate to population.
Earth has at least 5,000 years of recorded history, and we only hit 1 billion around 1800 AD, and 2 billion around 1930.
2)The problem is that much human capital will outproduce the rest of the setting and trivialize it.
Just in industrial output alone. Then there are the implications of a population that size in a setting where magic is acknowledged to exist and be useful, and unlike on Earth, Molly's Hell will be looking for and training every potential wizard and lesser magic talent.
2006 Dresdenverse Earth has a White Council of several thousand wizards from a population of 6 billion, despite missing a lot of potential wizards who never get training, or who are rejected from the Council for not being strong enough; there's at least half a dozen lesser sorcerers in Chicago as of Dead Beat that we see onscreen.
Consider how many wizards a human population of 30 billion or 50 billion humans will support. How many lesser talents.
You literally break the setting by having too many humans in your Hell.
Because the focus is where there are the most humans.
Canonically, no he doesnt.
Mechanically, there's no need either. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions.
Nicodemus tossed Lasciel's Coin at Harry Junior. A child.
And like Dresden, there may be people who might want to get rid of the Coin, IF they can do so without giving up something dear to them; for Dresden, it was his magic.
Or people who you can convince not to call on the Coin once there isnt a Fallen Angel whispering in their ear any longer.
==
Breaking the link means it cant be recalled unless the person touches the Coin again.
Thats the point as I understand it. Else Cassius would have been able to simply recall his Coin at will, as soon as the Knights had left his hotel room in Death Masks.
==
These are apparently akuma from Yomi Wan.
There's no people in Yomi Wan to feed on, and once you're Tainted, its not really something that stops by not feeding on tainted chi.
Let me see if I have a PDF to copy the details from.
Cadavers are used in medical research, and donated to train doctors and medical personnel.
They arent used for energy drinks, or to make superior rifles and spears. There's generally even public outcry if you use cadavers for paid shows to demonstrate vivisecting human anatomy to randos.
If you used cadaver parts to make an elite rifle or knife, you would get much the same in the way of reputational issues, even if you didnt kill them. I mean, Chinese medicine has reputational issues from allegedly harvesting transplant organs from the cadavers of executed prisoners.
1) It rolls 1 die every minute for ten minutes.
Normal humans lack Lethal soak, but they still have 7 HLs. Bakemono/fomor are not normal humans, so how much lethal soak they have is up to the QM. If he uses the rules for WoD ghouls, they get to soak Lethal at half Stamina, which means at least 1 soak.
Anyway.
Rolling against standard DC6, you average 4-5HLs of damage, roughly the same as the Einherjar took.
Less if the QM rules they have lethal soak for the duration.
2)We already can make health potions. Alchemy 2.
Setting up an IV, or even administering it orally is trivial.
Not an issue.
3)We are the daughter of a Knight of the Cross.
We are a known associate of a Starborn who has defeated a Walker twice. We stabbed a bunch of lesser Outsiders to death in the first Arc with a magic sword dealing Aggravated damage; this was at our meeting with McCoy.
The girlfriend of our financial adviser is canonically possessed by Nemesis and has been for a long time.
Its literally a major plot point for Peace Talks and Battlegrounds.
We are ALREADY on Nemesis' radar.
We've been on Nemesis radar since the start of the quest.
Its like assuming we arent already on the Denarians radar because we havent seen them come after us.
1)There are no Dragons Nests in Chinatown. There are Dragons Lines that pass through Chinatown, but no Nests I am aware of.
We mapped Chicago with Potter's help, after all.
2)I think Im safe assuming thats never gonna happen.
As Potter demonstrated, as did the Fomor, most of these places are already claimed by local powers, and most of them arent going to be as aggreable as Potter. We rolled very high to get him as a friendly.
Furthermore, as the boss akuma just demonstrated, such places also have to be defended against attack.
If you're not comtrolling it, you're not benefitting from it.
3)And the Doylist argument is that the QM wont allow it because it trivializes the rest of the setting if we can simply pile on external buffs by collecting Nests. If GSNF breaks the challenge curve by dealing post-soak damage, consider the implications of being able to stack uncapped dice on our stats from controlling multiple Dragons Nests.
Besides, the Dragon Nest Background gives access to ONE Nest, not just arbitary numbers you can collect ab infinito.
Its not supposed to be a Pokemon game
That is not true.
Vast is characterized as a SMALL world. It says nothing about population levels; indeed, its explicitly noted that we can have technological worlds with no population whatsoever; just make it a machine world.
You arent squeezing tens of billions, let alone trillions of people into a small world without literally turning it into an ecumenopolis.
And in so doing, you break the setting.
And not in a fun way.
Molly is not a Primordial, Molly is an Infernal.
Molly might get powerful enough to get the option to choose to go down the Devil Tiger path in the future.
Or she might not.
Consequences only matter if she's alive. We have a child with a life-threatening supernatural parasite. We cant just walk away.
Exorcise it, and call on the Church.
They have resources for this sort of thing; Forthill has done it for Harry multiple times, as far back as Grave Peril with the other Lydia. He did it for Molly, even; her ex was sent to Forthill.
Its one of the benefits of Mentor 5. We paid for it.
Last edited:
- Location
- washington
tens of billions sure no more we already went over this. Are you going to argue against having a large countries population though? Cause I get that it can harm game balance I really do want big changes to the setting though and am fairly tired of quests where you can't do a lot overall to the world.1)History does not translate to population.
Earth has at least 5,000 years of recorded history, and we only hit 1 billion around 1800 AD, and 2 billion around 1930.
2)The problem is that much human capital will outproduce the rest of the setting and trivialize it.
Just in industrial output alone. Then there are the implications of a population that size in a setting where magic is acknowledged to exist and be useful, and unlike on Earth, Molly's Hell will be looking for and training every potential wizard and lesser magic talent.
2006 Dresdenverse Earth has a White Council of several thousand wizards from a population of 6 billion, despite missing a lot of potential wizards who never get training, or who are rejected from the Council for not being strong enough; there's at least half a dozen lesser sorcerers in Chicago as of Dead Beat that we see onscreen.
Consider how many wizards a human population of 30 billion or 50 billion humans will support. How many lesser talents.
You literally break the setting by having too many humans in your Hell.
Because the focus is where there are the most humans.
Canonically, no he doesnt.
Mechanically, there's no need either. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions.
Nicodemus tossed Lasciel's Coin at Harry Junior. A child.
And like Dresden, there may be people who might want to get rid of the Coin, IF they can do so without giving up something dear to them; for Dresden, it was his magic.
Or people who you can convince not to call on the Coin once there isnt a Fallen Angel whispering in their ear any longer.
==
Breaking the link means it cant be recalled unless the person touches the Coin again.
Thats the point as I understand it. Else Cassius would have been able to simply recall his Coin at will, as soon as the Knights had left his hotel room in Death Masks.
==
These are apparently akuma from Yomi Wan.
There's no people in Yomi Wan to feed on, and once you're Tainted, its not really something that stops by not feeding on tainted chi.
Let me see if I have a PDF to copy the details from.
Cadavers are used in medical research, and donated to train doctors and medical personnel.
They arent used for energy drinks, or to make superior rifles and spears. There's generally even public outcry if you use cadavers for paid shows to demonstrate vivisecting human anatomy to randos.
If you used cadaver parts to make an elite rifle or knife, you would get much the same in the way of reputational issues, even if you didnt kill them. I mean, Chinese medicine has reputational issues from allegedly harvesting transplant organs from the cadavers of executed prisoners.
1) It rolls 1 die every minute for ten minutes.
Normal humans lack Lethal soak, but they still have 7 HLs. Bakemono/fomor are not normal humans, so how much lethal soak they have is up to the QM. If he uses the rules for WoD ghouls, they get to soak Lethal at half Stamina, which means at least 1 soak.
Anyway.
Rolling against standard DC6, you average 4-5HLs of damage, roughly the same as the Einherjar took.
Less if the QM rules they have lethal soak for the duration.
2)We already can make health potions. Alchemy 2.
Setting up an IV, or even administering it orally is trivial.
Not an issue.
3)We are the daughter of a Knight of the Cross.
We are a known associate of a Starborn who has defeated a Walker twice. We stabbed a bunch of lesser Outsiders to death in the first Arc with a magic sword dealing Aggravated damage; this was at our meeting with McCoy.
The girlfriend of our financial adviser is canonically possessed by Nemesis and has been for a long time.
Its literally a major plot point for Peace Talks and Battlegrounds.
We are ALREADY on Nemesis' radar.
We've been on Nemesis radar since the start of the quest.
Its like assuming we arent already on the Denarians radar because we havent seen them come after us.
1)There are no Dragons Nests in Chinatown. There are Dragons Lines that pass through Chinatown, but no Nests I am aware of.
We mapped Chicago with Potter's help, after all.
2)I think Im safe assuming thats never gonna happen.
As Potter demonstrated, as did the Fomor, most of these places are already claimed by local powers, and most of them arent going to be as aggreable as Potter. We rolled very high to get him as a friendly.
Furthermore, as the boss akuma just demonstrated, such places also have to be defended against attack.
If you're not comtrolling it, you're not benefitting from it.
3)And the Doylist argument is that the QM wont allow it because it trivializes the rest of the setting if we can simply pile on external buffs by collecting Nests. If GSNF breaks the challenge curve by dealing post-soak damage, consider the implications of being able to stack uncapped dice on our stats from controlling multiple Dragons Nests.
Besides, the Dragon Nest Background gives access to ONE Nest, not just arbitary numbers you can collect ab infinito.
Its not supposed to be a Pokemon game
That is not true.
Vast is characterized as a SMALL world. It says nothing about population levels; indeed, its explicitly noted that we can have technological worlds with no population whatsoever; just make it a machine world.
You arent squeezing tens of billions, let alone trillions of people into a small world without literally turning it into an ecumenopolis.
And in so doing, you break the setting.
And not in a fun way.
Molly is not a Primordial, Molly is an Infernal.
Molly might get powerful enough to get the option to choose to go down the Devil Tiger path in the future.
Or she might not.
Consequences only matter if she's alive. We have a child with a life-threatening supernatural parasite. We cant just walk away.
Exorcise it, and call on the Church.
They have resources for this sort of thing; Forthill has done it for Harry multiple times, as far back as Grave Peril with the other Lydia. He did it for Molly, even; her ex was sent to Forthill.
Its one of the benefits of Mentor 5. We paid for it.
