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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Arc 5 Post 3: The Sound of Things Unspoken
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    • The Sound of Things Unspoken ​

    28th of August 2006 A.D.

    Part of you wants to sigh in exasperation, another part wants to laugh at how often you hear it, it's the first question you had asked yourself and if it had not been for an actual archangel saying it's your own to do with as you will... well odds are you would still be worrying about it. You swallow the joke unspoken, but keep the smile that came with it: " How's that proverb go? 'Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble'."

    Lost 1 Essence -> now at 8/12

    "Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive," von Trier answers, you are not sure if it is confirmation or correction, at least not until she adds: "I think you are quite perceptive already are you not Miss Carpenter, silent or speaking?"

    What the...? Without the by now familiar whisper of your eternal companion in your ear you would have missed a beat or blinked too quick, something to give away your surprise, but you do not.

    "She's setting down a hook," the demon says, with all the hard won insight of realms darker than midnight.

    And so your tone is light still when you say: "I'd say so at least, but then that is what I would say if I were as blind as a bat." Though you do direct the smile more at Hyde than his partner, he had gotten on your nerves a lot less. "I'd like be able to extend some trust, but I'm not sure I can yet, so let's take this one step at a time."

    "Understandable," Hyde nods, though you do note he had taken out a notepad to jot down whatever you were inclined to tell him. Odd that he would do it in the spot instead of waiting until the meeting was done. Maybe he is just a stickler for some rule.

    "What I will share is that my power is mine alone and I answer to no one for it" These words you say as sure as you are that the earth goes 'round the sun today as it had yesterday and it will tomorrow. "It came to me by strange ways, and takes frightening forms at times, but that at least I have confirmation from trusted servants of the Lord and mortal practitioners alike."

    "When you say servants of the Lord do you mean..." Von Trier glances towards Father Forthil.

    "Rather above my pay grade." An almost impish smile lights up the often grave face of the old priest. "So far above one would be better advised to count in orders instead."

    "What order. The Society of..." Hyde starts, but his partner raises a hand for him to be quiet.

    "Not all that walks in darkness is garbed in it to the eyes of men," she says quietly concerned perhaps for you, perhaps for herself to speak of such things even inside a church. Not that you blame her knowing what you do about the Denarians.

    It's not often you get to trot out this line innocently, you can't not take it: "Do you know who my father is?"

    Hearing this the elder librarian tips her head back and casts her eyes ever so briefly heavenwards and for a moment you think she is trying to hide the mention of angels from her partner, but then you realize his breathing had just gotten just a fraction less regular in that ever present almost-melody you can now hear from the buzz of the light overhead to the faint tick of a wristwatch slicing away time into seconds. She wants you to think of Hyde as someone less in the loop. Why? Do see if you will brag? To make you less weary around him? Really there are too many potential reasons.

    Regardless you nod and play along filling the silence before it can grow uneasy: "So if a question for a question is OK with you, what does someone have to do to get the fun kind of library card?"

    "That is as you said a measure of trust and of how much a scholar is known to us." Von Trier pauses more for effect than any hesitation you would guess, before adding. "The best way to be known is by one's scholarship. Tis not false modesty to say that we have taken the first step to wisdom, understanding how much we do not know."

    Is that enough you wonder, do you trust these people enough to mention Katrina, especially given how you ended the rogue valkyrie. They are not going to try to press gang you like Daedalus tried to do to Harry that is for sure. On the other hand being smarter also means they would be a lot more dangerous if they were inclined to act against you. Is it just Von Trier creeping me out? you wonder. That would be rather hypocritical of you given the nature of your own power.

    Do you reveal more of what you know about the Red Room Murders?

    [] Yes
    -[] Write in

    [] No. you hardly know these people, exchange emails and leave

    [] Write in

    OOC: Still holding out well in social combat.
     
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    • Yog said:
    Personally, I have more hopes on overly successful polymorph potion. Much cheaper and with a lot of successes probably as useful. And Black MIrror falls once we flare our anima. That's a very big limitation - basically no using it in combat.
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    I wouldn't call it useless in combat, or at least not more so than the other options. Almost all of the flashier stuff, and the anima flare itself, are really recognizable. If we hit that point we'd basically need to kill or turn everyone who saw it to keep the secret even with an active illusion.

    We can get through a lot of fights with four or less essence anyway, especially if we prepare our passives appropriately beforehand and prepare a little for any given trip.

    That said, we want alchemy anyway so I don't see a reason not to experiment a little.

    We can't share any of the direct effects, so if we want to go incognito with any of our allies we'd need something like that anyway.

    Artemis1992 said:
    Back in Exalted it was see-through for magic-sight, but it contained upgrades that made it perfect against Sorcerer's Sight and even fate-reading.
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    That makes sense. It's definitely a weakness, but I wouldn't say it's too much of one.

    Nobody turns something like the sight against powerful entities if they don't have to, and most other esoteric senses are dramatically fuzzier than it is even for the powerful.

    Enhanced versions of mundane senses are a lot more common though. We could legitimately be given away by scent or the sound of our voice under lesser protections.

    With the disguise charm we could probably get away with pretending to be a half demon or archfiend if we needed to, and for stuff involving the increasingly active mundane groups it'd be very effective.

    If we see a masquerade break I'd go so far as to call it essential to operating without getting hit with blowback.
     
    Hmm... Rather than revealing Katrina, I think giving them a copy of the Thousand Hells book might be our "buy in". It firmly establishes our credentials as a scholar.Which is what they are asking about. Perhaps not even the full book.
     
    We've shared enough information with these folks for now, IMO.

    [X] No. you hardly know these people, exchange emails and leave
     
    I think we get more by getting on the inside, than staying out. Their library collection potentially provides a veritable treasure trove of Crown foci. The question is what to trade for it. Katrina is problematic - "do not admit murder to (potentially) corrupt federal authority" is not that complex of an idea. Pathfinders might work, but we also committed murder there, even if only against fomorians (I think). It also comes with an underwater base (I don't think we flooded it?) which they could take for their own. The safest thing would be to trade them some knowledge relatively useless to us, but useful for them. Oh!

    [X] Trade the knowledge of how to make soulgazes of powerful beings safer for the library cards
     
    [x] Yog

    Current vote isn't that great, but I feel fairly confident that you will come up with something good and I am of the general position of doing some sharing.
     
    Yog said:
    I think we get more by getting on the inside, than staying out. Their library collection potentially provides a veritable treasure trove of Crown foci. The question is what to trade for it. Katrina is problematic - "do not admit murder to (potentially) corrupt federal authority" is not that complex of an idea. Pathfinders might work, but we also committed murder there, even if only against fomorians (I think). It also comes with an underwater base (I don't think we flooded it?) which they could take for their own. The safest thing would be to trade them some knowledge relatively useless to us, but useful for them. Oh!

    [X] Trade the knowledge of how to make soulgazes of powerful beings safer for the library cards
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    You are not sure how well that translates, the insight you got was about how to make Harry safer and it worked fine for Harry to say those words and give those insights. It might not translate as well to other people. Also you do not know how many people if any they have who can do soul-gazes
     
    DragonParadox said:
    You are not sure how well that translates, the insight you got was about how to make Harry safer and it worked fine for Harry to say those words and give those insights. It might not translate as well to other people. Also you do not know how many people if any they have who can do soul-gazes
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    Hmm... Could we use Occult Excellency here and now to make the information we give out better / more general? We did get more experience with mortal casters.
     
    Ok, in that case

    [X] No. you hardly know these people, exchange emails and leave

    We'll prepare the "how to safely soulgaze demon lords" primer later. It's a safety manual, and, as such, something that should be worth spreading.
     
    This is going pretty well for a first meeting. Sure there's some fencing going on, but I sort of view this like dogs sniffing at each other for the supernatural. If we up and tried to shake paws instead it'd look strange. One step at a time starting from the familiar is a good way to build a little trust.

    That said, the same rules apply here as did with Daedalus. We don't know if their organization is actually full of assholes at the top level or something, even if these people seem about as polite and reasonable as those in their positions can be.

    I'm still interested in taking some more baby steps to see if they're worth working with.

    That said.
    DragonParadox said:
    Is that enough you wonder, do you trust these people enough to mention Katrina, especially given how you ended the rogue valkyrie. They are not going to try to press gang you like Daedalus tried to do to Harry that is for sure. On the other hand being smarter also means they would be a lot more dangerous if they were inclined to act against you. Is it just Von Trier creeping me out? you wonder. That would be rather hypocritical of you given the nature of your own power.

    Do you reveal more of what you know about the Red Room Murders?
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    Why was this the first thing to jump to mind? Sure it's useful and topical to Daedalus, but what they asked about was scholarship. Which sounds more like asking if we want to share lore with them.

    Maybe this would be the place to mention the pathfinders a bit more?

    What we're learned of them isn't directly connected to our own background, even if it shows off our occult score a bit depending on how fast we go.

    A basic outline of the operation and it's basic long term goals would immediately catch their attention as relevant, and a copy of the research notes we got as loot would give them something useful to work with on the problem without giving much on us other than our ability to obtain it.

    Maybe we could even turn it into a trial project if we really want to pursue this.

    As in, we organize a copy of the notes to transfer to them, then agree to work with someone they've got on staff focused on alchemy stuff.

    Ideally we'd get a bigger skill discount for alchemy from it, just like we did from obtaining the lore in the first place. They'd get some ongoing insight into us, but we'd also get some into them.

    To go back to the dating metaphor @uju32 used earlier, this would be the equivalent of going bowling to get to know each other. Something to do to keep the conversation going that isn't itself terribly important in the grand scheme of things.

    Is there any other intermediate step we should take instead? I'm perfectly happy being slow about this to avoid getting stabbed in the back by someone playing dress up as the Illuminati.
     
    The real question is what information we can expect to get with a library card that we can't get from Bob. Maybe having a library card would be a further bonus on training rolls?
     
    BronzeTongue said:
    Maybe this would be the place to mention the pathfinders a bit more?
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    Did we observably kill any humans while fighting Pathfinders? Or commit any other provable crime? If no, pointing them out could be a good idea - they left behind an underwater base that could be useful. If yes, the basic rule is "do not admit crimes to federal agents".

    BronzeTongue said:
    A basic outline of the operation and it's basic long term goals would immediately catch their attention as relevant, and a copy of the research notes we got as loot would give them something useful to work with on the problem without giving much on us other than our ability to obtain it.
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    A lot of potential for misuse there.

    However... We do have one thing to trade them.

    [X] Trade them knowledge of fomori underground base biology as a "teaser" of sorts
    -[X] Use Occult excellency to make the information better
    -[X] "Prove my bonafides as a scholar, you say? Sure. You have a pen and a piece of paper?" you smile, before starting to sketch what looks like a mix between an autopsy report, a scientific paper, and an article taken from a medieval bestiary. You draw the outline of a great mutant crustacean that you saw under the surface of lake Erie, with a cutout detailing its internal structure, and make detailed notes on how it functions, what dangers it represents and what telltale signs of its presence one could look for.

    We used a crown to study the biology of the fomori base:
    DragonParadox said:
    Then you see it, growing from the bottom of the lake like blisters of leprous white stone arranged in a distorted pentagram with the north-facing point way farther out than any of the others the base sprawls over maybe five hundred square yards, though you cannot see any opening to it, at least not with eyes of flesh. Looking deeper, you see that at the apex of the northern blister the top the the dome is not stone at all, but the barnacle covered shell of some mutant crustacean that opens...

    Lost 1 Essence -> Now at 8/12

    Yew.
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    This is a useful non-incriminating information with low possiblity for abuse. The only thing I am debating internally is whether to reveal where the base itself can be found.
    fictionfan said:
    The real question is what information we can expect to get with a library card that we can't get from Bob. Maybe having a library card would be a further bonus on training rolls?
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    My great hope is that they'll have one or two scraps of Old Realm language samples.
     
    [X] Plan Measure Twice
    -[X] Attempt to set up a lore exchange related to the pathfinders
    —[X] Explain in general what they are, what their operation in Cleveland was trying to, and that they're handled for the moment without getting into details about who or how it was handled
    -[X] Offer to put together a packet containing what information remains of their research and equipment. In exchange request equivalent value in alchemical lore. (Include things like a brief write up of their activities, sketches of their facilities as relevant to their research, and printed photos of any equipment we have of their's from multiple angles with identifying labels)
    -[X] If they seem amicable, further offer to start a little joint research project on it if they have someone local for you to speak with.
    -[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath, Molly looks over the agents again and comes to a decision. "Trust is a fragile thing, but you two have been as reasonable as can be expected of people in your position. Perhaps more than that, I'll admit to wanting to find a trustworthy mortal organization in all of this" She says, gesturing in a vague way at the supernatural world as a whole.
    -[X] "So how about we take another little baby step, and see where it goes" growing more serious Molly looks one agent in the eye, then the other, and asks "Have either of you heard of the Pathfinders before?"

    What do you guys think of something like this?

    fictionfan said:
    The real question is what information we can expect to get with a library card that we can't get from Bob. Maybe having a library card would be a further bonus on training rolls?
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    Bob knows a lot, but he doesn't know everything. We even ran into it talking to him about demons, and probably wouldn't have known he was wrong if he was our only source.

    There are also limits on how much of his time we can take, so additional teachers also mean we can train more things at once.

    There's also the matter of feeling out the organization, both to gain access to more material resources and to see if they're worth helping.

    I'm still concerned about a hook, but if they aren't a corrupt mess I think helping the mortal authorities protect people would be worth our time.
     
    BronzeTongue said:
    What do you guys think of something like this?
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    The research information can be abused relatively easily. Like, I wouldn't put it past these guys to try and milk the raksha for gossamer themselves. We have a Crown-grade information on fomori bioscultped underwater base biology. We could probably trade that to them.
    BronzeTongue said:
    I'm still concerned about a hook, but if they aren't a corrupt mess I think helping the mortal authorities protect people would be worth our time.
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    Agreed, even if they very much annoy me.

    EDIT:
    Hmm... We could also make a very good hell / fae survival manual. Bob's + Usum's knowledge + TLF + BSM (if we do it later) + Excellency, and I think we can make a very good book. That's something we should attempt, I feel. Regardless of the current situation.
     
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    Yog said:
    [X] Trade them knowledge of fomori underground base biology as a "teaser" of sorts
    -[X] Use Occult excellency to make the information better
    -[X] "Prove my bonafides as a scholar, you say? Sure. You have a pen and a piece of paper?" you smile, before starting to sketch what looks like a mix between an autopsy report, a scientific paper, and an article taken from a medieval bestiary. You draw the outline of a great mutant crustacean that you saw under the surface of lake Erie, with a cutout detailing its internal structure, and make detailed notes on how it functions, what dangers it represents and what telltale signs of its presence one could look for.
    Click to expand...
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    BronzeTongue said:
    [X] Plan Measure Twice
    -[X] Attempt to set up a lore exchange related to the pathfinders
    —[X] Explain in general what they are, what their operation in Cleveland was trying to, and that they're handled for the moment without getting into details about who or how it was handled
    -[X] Offer to put together a packet containing what information remains of their research and equipment. In exchange request equivalent value in alchemical lore. (Include things like a brief write up of their activities, sketches of their facilities as relevant to their research, and printed photos of any equipment we have of their's from multiple angles with identifying labels)
    -[X] If they seem amicable, further offer to start a little joint research project on it if they have someone local for you to speak with.
    -[X] Stunt: Taking a deep breath, Molly looks over the agents again and comes to a decision. "Trust is a fragile thing, but you two have been as reasonable as can be expected of people in your position. Perhaps more than that, I'll admit to wanting to find a trustworthy mortal organization in all of this" She says, gesturing in a vague way at the supernatural world as a whole.
    -[X] "So how about we take another little baby step, and see where it goes" growing more serious Molly looks one agent in the eye, then the other, and asks "Have either of you heard of the Pathfinders before?"
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    It still seems too early to be sharing this kind of info with these people.

    Not necessarily because I think it will be abused or anything like that, though it's a possibility, but because it makes us seem a little too eager, IMO. We didn't come to this meeting to share a bunch of information, we didn't plan this meeting at all, so us being willing to give out this kind of knowledge at the drop of a hat sends the wrong kind of signals.

    It was a good meeting. We established our bona fides and now we have two points of contact with the Library. Let's take the win and move on. We can reach out later when we want to further ingratiate ourselves to them, or we need a favor.
     
    Yog said:
    Did we observably kill any humans while fighting Pathfinders? Or commit any other provable crime? If no, pointing them out could be a good idea - they left behind an underwater base that could be useful. If yes, the basic rule is "do not admit crimes to federal agents".
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    We didn't kill anything human during that trip, though we did do some breaking and entering.

    In any case, I just want to go over what the pathfinders were doing and that they're gone now. I doubt they can pin us on that if they wanted to, both because we were careful and because Micheal was on the clock for that job.
    Yog said:
    A lot of potential for misuse there.
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    That's a fair point, but I'm not sure it's a fatal one. The pathfinder's research was into replicating the gossamer stuff with regular alchemy and they hadn't really made it work yet.

    Unless they have a specialist in that on hand I doubt they can meet the same ends. If they choose to run a little workshop with us then it seems even less likely that they'd work it out without us noticing.

    Beyond that though, if they're the type of organization to do stuff like that then they have plenty of options for acquiring dangerous lore. Learning that they're trying would be a valuable outcome itself, because it would make them too big a problem to ignore.

    A nation spanning organization with that level of government access gone bad could do horrific things to the mortal world.
    Yog said:
    The research information can be abused relatively easily. Like, I wouldn't put it past these guys to try and milk the raksha for gossamer themselves. We have a Crown-grade information on fomori bioscultped underwater base biology. We could probably trade that to them.
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    The Rakasha is sulking in its prison, I doubt it'd easily fall for the same trick, or that they could do it without our knowledge.

    It's a concern, but I don't think the bio base knowledge is a good replacement because giving enough to be useful is probably enough to get them in trouble anyway.

    I mean, what happens if they go searching for one?

    Even setting that aside, it doesn't keep a conversation going.
     
    BronzeTongue said:
    That's a fair point, but I'm not sure it's a fatal one. The pathfinder's research was into replicating the gossamer stuff with regular alchemy and they hadn't really made it work yet.
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    Not exaclty. The pathfinders were making a servitor creating medicine. They used gossamer (which can be basically transformed into anything) as a shortcut to make a working example, and then tried to repeat the result without using the gossamer - to reverse engineer the process of making it normally. I don't want the Library of Congress to have access to this knowledge until I know they won't sprint into making their own version.
    Goldfish said:
    It still seems too early to be sharing this kind of info with these people.

    Not necessarily because I think it will be abused or anything like that, though it's a possibility, but because it makes us seem a little too eager, IMO. We didn't come to this meeting to share a bunch of information, we didn't plan this meeting at all, so us being willing to give out this kind of knowledge at the drop of a hat sends the wrong kind of signals.
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    I'm not sure what kind of abuse potential is in my last proposal, as long we don't include the coordinates for the base.
     
    Yog said:
    Not exaclty. The pathfinders were making a servitor creating medicine. They used gossamer (which can be basically transformed into anything) as a shortcut to make a working example, and then tried to repeat the result without using the gossamer - to reverse engineer the process of making it normally. I don't want the Library of Congress to have access to this knowledge until I know they won't sprint into making their own version.
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    With the current direction they are more likely to make Hitmarks than mutants.

    Though that would be cool too.
     
    I'm personally against giving the government anything that scales up too easily. While I won't claim they're bad people without evidence, government and corruption go hand-in-hand. In particular, an organization that starts out fine can be biased and twisted very easily, and become echo chambers.
    As an alternative, I'd suggest empowering SI departments and smaller non-governmental organizations in sufficient numbers that no single one can grow to the point of monopolizing authority.
     
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