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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
Oh, yes. There's absolutely a cost / separation law, concerning human (mortal) magic practitioners from mortal population. That law expresses itself differently in different eras, and the expression seems to relate to human perception/ state of society.

The interesting question is - does Salinan Working still exist? If we unearth the steps towards Sorcery initiation, would the mortal who goes through it
a) Explode into giblets
b) Lose their magic, with a possibility of relearning it (same as we are doing right now)
c) Get access to ancient sorcery
d) Lose the bane (and possibly the mind corruption effect of mortal magic)
e) All of the above
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If I had to guess I'd say that it's only possible through the direct effort of an exalt if it can happen at all.

Not necessarily because of power so much as position and access. The rules have changed and old school exalted era sorcery is deprecated. There's nothing there that will acknowledge them in the first place.
 
DragonParadox said:
Character sheets updated.
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COMMENT
-Didnt update Lydia's HLs. With 1x Ox Body, she should have 9x HLs, not 7.

-Molly's char sheet says 0xp. We spent 22xp out of 23xp. We should have 1xp in the bank.

-Ordo Lebes and Jade Dogs should probably go in there somewhere
Though instead of trying to figure out which are Followers and which are Allies and which are Backup, I'd just mark them as affiliates somewhere.

REQUEST
Can we get a link to Lydia's charmset on her charsheet?
Or just get a threadmark for them in Informational?
DragonParadox said:
The Qiao of the Mo Kung
Sweating a sheen of unholy brass wrought from the fires of their Essence the Infernal transmutes her form to more than human resilience, able to shake off even more punishment.
System: Spend 1 Essence and roll Willpower against DC 8; each success increases your Stamina by one up to a maximum of 8 for one scene
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DragonParadox said:
You are not burning human chi, but infernal Essence. That tends to be a lot less like overcoming your limits at the cost of your lifespan and more like temporary transcendence, a flicker of the power of the Demon Emperor.
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Yeah, thats going to be Obvious.
Not shintai obvious, of course, but literally turning the sheen of Infernal brass essentially makes it non-viable to activate this preemptively when going into potentially hazardous situations and wanting lowkey protection, like a shih can.

Unless Molly can, suppress that look, it removes some of Steel Skin's utility for an Exalt.
 
uju32 said:
COMMENT
-Didnt update Lydia's HLs. With 1x Ox Body, she should have 9x HLs, not 7.

-Molly's char sheet says 0xp. We spent 22xp out of 23xp. We should have 1xp in the bank.

-Ordo Lebes and Jade Dogs should probably go in there somewhere
Though instead of trying to figure out which are Followers and which are Allies and which are Backup, I'd just mark them as affiliates somewhere.

REQUEST
Can we get a link to Lydia's charmset on her charsheet?
Or just get a threadmark for them in Informational?


Yeah, thats going to be Obvious.
Not shintai obvious, of course, but literally turning the sheen of Infernal brass essentially makes it non-viable to activate this preemptively when going into potentially hazardous situations and wanting lowkey protection, like a shih can.

Unless Molly can, suppress that look, it removes some of Steel Skin's utility for an Exalt.
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I mean you are an infernal, being obvious is one of the banes of your existence and just because you learned some cute human arts does not meant the Glorious Verdant Flame Creation and Annihilation Engine in your soul is going to change its nature. You are not a shih. All your powers will have what mages call resonance, that is they are going to be colored by the nature of your power.

Will Edit stuff in soon.

For now Vote closed, let's see how the Librarians take it.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 7, 2023 at 11:49 AM, finished with 167 posts and 34 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Answering the Question
    -[X] Activate Etiquette excellency
    -[X] Explain that it's complicated, but that Molly's power is her own without external influence. Confirmed by trusted agents of God.
    -[X] Stunt: Straightening up a bit, Molly meets the the librarian's gaze. " How's that proverb go? 'Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble' Molly says with an almost lighthearted tone.
    -[X] "I'd like be able to extend some trust, but I'm not sure I can yet, so let's take this one step at a time." Molly sighs. "What I will share is that my power is mine alone and I answer to no one for it" She says, with a certainty deeper than the earth and higher than the mountains welling up in her voice.
    -[X] " It came to me by strange ways, and takes frightening forms at times, but that at least I have confirmation from trusted servants of the lord and mortal practitioners alike."
    [X] "My own, funny enough. Trust me, we asked that question too, and as the daughter of a Carpenter it was a little shocking how high that question went. Rest assured, this power is mine now, answering only to my free will. The one who gave me that answer Knows these sorts of things."
    [X] Tell them the same story you did the Order of the Cauldron
    [X] My own
    -[X] Tell them the same story you did the Order of the Cauldro
    -[X] STUNT: "Mine is not a sponsored power, to be taken away at someone's whim. Upon my brow sits the ancient crown, taken in combat from the treasuries of Winter, yet, by right, meant for mortal men and holding no allegiance to the fae. Mine favor and wrath are for me alone to disperse, and none can compel my service without my agreement"
    [X] I am a Bodhisattva of Violence. I have reached enlightenment by carving through the 10000 hells.
    [x] Winter was holding it in a way ready to invest into someone, but it was never really theirs. I haven't discovered exactly where it came from originally, just that it's very old and they had held it for a very long time.
    [x] Does not matter the ones that made it are so long dead only God remembers them.
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If this is how all Qiao are going to manifest, picking up an illusion power/path to conceal that sort of stuff suddenly shot up in priority.
 
There are 3 or 4 illusion powers in the infernal charmset because that's a villain specialty.

edit: just two actually.
Black mirror incarnation (•••••)
The Infernal breathes upon the black mirror of
her heart, and becomes someone else.
System: The Infernal spends 1 Essence, spends a mo-
ment concentrating, and dons a perfect illusion which
causes her to appear to be someone else. This can be either
a real person, or a fictitious individual of the Infernal's de-
vising. This illusion fools all five senses. Deduction may
reveal the Infernal for an impostor, but imperfections in
the disguise itself never will. The illusion persists until the
Infernal reflexively dismisses it, or until her anima flares.

Anonymity through propriety (••)
The Infernal wraps herself in a mantle of Essence
which devours the attention of the weak-willed, mak-
ing it feel like an impossible burden to notice the Exalt
or interfere in her affairs.
System: Spend 1 Essence and roll Charisma + Et-
iquette against difficulty 4. Anyone whose Willpower
rating is equal to or lower than the resulting successes
cannot notice or acknowledge the Infernal unless she
directly interacts or interferes with them. If she's tak-
ing some indirect action that would distress a character
were he to acknowledge it (such as reading his diary
or murdering his spouse), and that character has Will-
power 5+, they can spend a point of Willpower and
make a Willpower roll against difficulty 7 to attempt to
acknowledge and confront the Infernal. This Charm
lasts for one scene.
Signature Effect: Anonymity Through Propriety acti-
vates at no cost when the Infernal dons her Shintai form.

A cheaper but failure prone one and a better but more expensive one.
 
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uju32 said:
Yeah, thats going to be Obvious.
Not shintai obvious, of course, but literally turning the sheen of Infernal brass essentially makes it non-viable to activate this preemptively when going into potentially hazardous situations and wanting lowkey protection, like a shih can.

Unless Molly can, suppress that look, it removes some of Steel Skin's utility for an Exalt.
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Or we could go the complete opposite direction and have Molly put metallic body paint on her exposed skin while on the job. :V

People can't tell when you're looking for extra protection if you look like you wander around transformed all the time.

Seriously though, that is sort of a loss of function for us.

Any chance we could research something to make it better @DragonParadox? If it's a flicker of a demon empress' power instead of simple mortal life force then being able to move the stamina cap up a bit or something could fit fluff wise and make up for the difference in some respects.
 
Prospalz said:
Yeah, but they are rated pretty highly. Illusion Path is cheaper, and low dots are sufficient for the purpose.
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Assuming Sorcerer: Paths of Power is allowed, there's a 2 dot polymorph potion:
•• Polymorph: a potion that allows the drinker to take on a different form, restricted to simple changes within a human framework, and they cannot perfectly duplicate another person.
 
Ok i seriously think you're over-reacting. Just get a surprise negator/initiative booster. Or rather another one.

Half the infernal combat powers explode into seriously demonic stuff. When we get some more of the Adorjan stuff we may instead of jumping over obstacles or heroically breaking jail bars just divide into ribons and slitter in between the gaps for instance.

Besides surprise negators there are also outright damage negators in the first round (i think the final kimbery - sorry 'hell of boiling alive' - charm is this):


Bitter heart unbleeding (•••••)
Bracing herself before the slings and arrows of her
enemies, the Infernal absorbs all attacks with little more
than a ripple crossing the surface of her body, letting
them vanish into the fathomless depths of her Essence.
System: The player may reflexively spend 1 Es-
sence after the character is struck by an attack, but be-
fore damage is rolled. The Infernal negates the damage
roll and suffers no damage. This Charm cannot be
used while the Infernal is dry.

Uh, it's better than i thought. Not just first round and doesn't require initiative won.
 
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Yog said:
Assuming Sorcerer: Paths of Power is allowed, there's a 2 dot polymorph potion:
•• Polymorph: a potion that allows the drinker to take on a different form, restricted to simple changes within a human framework, and they cannot perfectly duplicate another person.
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IDK how physical changes are going to overwrite each other; Illusions seems to be a safer choice for concealment.
 
Yog said:
Assuming Sorcerer: Paths of Power is allowed, there's a 2 dot polymorph potion:
•• Polymorph: a potion that allows the drinker to take on a different form, restricted to simple changes within a human framework, and they cannot perfectly duplicate another person.
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That one seems a little iffy to me. I could see an illusion layering an image over us to hide the change, but if an exalt's essence and a low tier potion are both trying to transform the same thing in different ways then I'd assume the essence wins by default.
SCO said:
Ok i seriously think you're over-reacting. Just get a surprise negator/initiative booster. Or rather another one.

Half the infernal combat powers explode into seriously demonic stuff. When we get some more of the Adorjan stuff we may instead of jumping over obstacules or heroically breaking jail bars just divide into ribons and slitter in between the gaps for instance.
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I don't think anyone is freaking out, just trying to work through an unexpected issue.

One of the nice things about this particular ability was that we could trigger it as an additional layer of subtle protection in a situation where things might go south but aren't guaranteed to. As it stands we basically announce that we're concerned about a fight if we try that.

Still plenty useful, but it is a limitation.

Though to be honest I like the fluff a lot better this way, so I'm not all that annoyed about the function loss.
 
I can't recall the name, but someone mentioned a perfect disguise Charm a few weeks back, one that allowed us to look like anyone we wanted. Was that an illusion effect or a shapeshifting one?

If it's an illusion, that could eventually disguise the Infernal-style Steel Skin visuals, right?
 
SCO said:
Uh, it's better than i thought. Not just first round.
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Perfect Defenses are one of the most memorable features of Exalts in E2, and Holden ported them reasonably well to ExWoD.

They still generally get outcompeted by other defensive charms. When you have 20+ difficulty 4 points of passive soak + Fivefold Bullwark/Open Eye, you are already pretty much invincible to anything that doesn't deal main tank cannon level of damage per attack.

Entities that could throw around that sort of damage are rare in oWoD, and they are rare in DF.
Goldfish said:
I can't recall the name, but someone mentioned a perfect disguise Charm a few weeks back, one that allowed us to look like anyone we wanted. Was that an illusion effect or a shapeshifting one?
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It is a five dot illusion charm that gets outcompeted by a two dots of Illusion Path. Unless DP forbids us from getting Illusions or discounts it, that's a pass.
 
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Goldfish said:
I can't recall the name, but someone mentioned a perfect disguise Charm a few weeks back, one that allowed us to look like anyone we wanted. Was that an illusion effect or a shapeshifting one?

If it's an illusion, that could eventually disguise the Infernal-style Steel Skin visuals, right?
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It's illusion Kakuri charm. a 5 dot one:
Black Mirror Incarnation (•••••)
The Infernal breathes upon the black mirror of
her heart, and becomes someone else.
System: The Infernal spends 1 Essence, spends a mo-
ment concentrating, and dons a perfect illusion which
causes her to appear to be someone else. This can be either
a real person, or a fictitious individual of the Infernal's de-
vising. This illusion fools all five senses. Deduction may
reveal the Infernal for an impostor, but imperfections in
the disguise itself never will. The illusion persists until the
Infernal reflexively dismisses it, or until her anima flares
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Click to shrink...

As such we aren't buying it before our kingdom, VEE, wonder crafting (I hope) charms are bought.
 
Goldfish said:
I can't recall the name, but someone mentioned a perfect disguise Charm a few weeks back, one that allowed us to look like anyone we wanted. Was that an illusion effect or a shapeshifting one?

If it's an illusion, that could eventually disguise the Infernal-style Steel Skin visuals, right?
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Yeah, this one:

BlaCK mirror inCarnation (•••••)
The Infernal breathes upon the black mirror of
her heart, and becomes someone else.
System: The Infernal spends 1 Essence, spends a mo-
ment concentrating, and dons a perfect illusion which causes her to appear to be someone else. This can be either a real person, or a fictitious individual of the Infernal's de- vising. This illusion fools all five senses. Deduction may reveal the Infernal for an impostor, but imperfections in the disguise itself never will. The illusion persists until the Infernal reflexively dismisses it, or until her anima flares
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It's super expensive though, I can only assume that it makes up for it by being serious about it being a perfect illusion.

Edit: should have refreshed before posting.
 
Prospalz said:
It is a five dot illusion charm that gets outcompeted by a two dots of Illusion Path. Unless DP forbids us from getting Illusions or discounts it, that's a pass.
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Yog said:
It's illusion Kakuri charm. a 5 dot one:
As such we aren't buying it before our kingdom, VEE, wonder crafting (I hope) charms are bought.
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BronzeTongue said:
Yeah, this one:
It's super expensive though, I can only assume that it makes up for it by being serious about it being a perfect illusion.

Edit: should have refreshed before posting.
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I'm just happy I remembered that it existed, so I'm not gonna let it being well outside our XP budget for the foreseeable future being me down.
 
BronzeTongue said:
It's super expensive though, I can only assume that it makes up for it by being serious about it being a perfect illusion.
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Kakuri is favored for us, so that's 15 XP. If it can oppose supernatural examination, then it is prolly worth 5 dots. Otherwise, eh.

For 10 XP we could get mostly comparable illusion powers from Paths - not perfect, but perfect is rarely needed - and for 19, we could broad spectrum illusion superpowers. Moving illusionary images, sounds, etcetera.
Illusions said:
•• The illusion must build on something existent, but can be a bit more complex. A wall could appear to have blood spattered all over it, or be made of an entirely different material, a siren could be made to sound like a bullhorn, or blueberry juice could be made to taste like coffee.
••• Above illusions can now change and move, such as a wall made to look like it has blood trickling down it and pooling on the ground. In addition, mostly static but separate imagery can be created. A person humming the same note over and over (With enough sense aspects) could be made to appear on an empty street, for instance, or a box could appear to be on fire (And even give off heat and the proper sound with the right aspects, though no damage could be done, and the fire wouldn't spread or move quite enough). The size of such things is limited to about that of a large person.
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Yog said:
It's illusion Kakuri charm. a 5 dot one:


As such we aren't buying it before our kingdom, VEE, wonder crafting (I hope) charms are bought.
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It's actually grown on me as time goes on, assuming it does illusions well enough to live up to the price tag.

It's not as profound as VEE or the kingdom, but it'd be a veritable workhorse charm exceeding HMP under normal Dresden Files rules.

With that and RVD we could be almost anywhere doing anything and be very difficult to pick out or track.

For my part I'd be a lot more willing to do stuff like pop around the country and make VEE deals with people, interact directly with dangerous organizations like Daedalus, and generally leverage our more subtle or socially oriented abilities if we could do them without connecting it back to Molly.

I could see delaying either of those charms for it supposing we had a clear plan in mind for maximizing its utility.

Especially since the earlier we have it the better off we are in terms of setting things up.
Prospalz said:
Kakuri is favored for us, so that's 15 XP. If it can oppose supernatural examination, then it is prolly worth 5 dots. Otherwise, eh.

For 10 XP we could get mostly comparable illusion powers from Paths - not perfect, but perfect is rarely needed - and for 19, we could broad spectrum illusion superpowers. Moving illusionary images, sounds, etcetera.
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I'm not sure how it stands up to supernatural inspection. On one hand it does say the illusion will never fail to conceal you, on the other it does limit it to five senses.

My bet is that we could pretend to be a demon pretty easily if it doesn't block the more esoteric stuff completely.

I'm not super enthusiastic about illusions. They can be useful, but they have sharp limits and are among the easiest varieties of magic to overcome in the DF.
 
BronzeTongue said:
With that and RVD we could be almost anywhere doing anything and be very difficult to pick out or track.
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Personally, I have more hopes on overly successful polymorph potion. Much cheaper and with a lot of successes probably as useful. And Black MIrror falls once we flare our anima. That's a very big limitation - basically no using it in combat.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 7, 2023 at 11:49 AM, finished with 167 posts and 34 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Answering the Question
    -[X] Activate Etiquette excellency
    -[X] Explain that it's complicated, but that Molly's power is her own without external influence. Confirmed by trusted agents of God.
    -[X] Stunt: Straightening up a bit, Molly meets the the librarian's gaze. " How's that proverb go? 'Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble' Molly says with an almost lighthearted tone.
    -[X] "I'd like be able to extend some trust, but I'm not sure I can yet, so let's take this one step at a time." Molly sighs. "What I will share is that my power is mine alone and I answer to no one for it" She says, with a certainty deeper than the earth and higher than the mountains welling up in her voice.
    -[X] " It came to me by strange ways, and takes frightening forms at times, but that at least I have confirmation from trusted servants of the lord and mortal practitioners alike."
    [X] "My own, funny enough. Trust me, we asked that question too, and as the daughter of a Carpenter it was a little shocking how high that question went. Rest assured, this power is mine now, answering only to my free will. The one who gave me that answer Knows these sorts of things."
    [X] Tell them the same story you did the Order of the Cauldron
    [X] My own
    -[X] Tell them the same story you did the Order of the Cauldro
    -[X] STUNT: "Mine is not a sponsored power, to be taken away at someone's whim. Upon my brow sits the ancient crown, taken in combat from the treasuries of Winter, yet, by right, meant for mortal men and holding no allegiance to the fae. Mine favor and wrath are for me alone to disperse, and none can compel my service without my agreement"
    [X] I am a Bodhisattva of Violence. I have reached enlightenment by carving through the 10000 hells.
    [x] Winter was holding it in a way ready to invest into someone, but it was never really theirs. I haven't discovered exactly where it came from originally, just that it's very old and they had held it for a very long time.
    [x] Does not matter the ones that made it are so long dead only God remembers them.
Click to expand...
 
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