- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I would give a hard no to that one. First of all because there isn't much of a need to do it, and overworking more than the free overwork should be saved for emergencies. Second of all, a lot of WEB-MAT actions can be good for Eike (see here for some ideas) and if we're doing a lot of them in a single turn means either not bringing Eike along or overworking Eike, and either of those is a bad idea imo.
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It's a single data point, not a full master's dissertation. It's someone else's job to determine if that data point is anomalous, or an indicator of a general trend.
This feels like one of those scenarios where the daemon's words have only the amount of power over us that we let them…
… and so there's a strong majority for giving them the maximum amount of power possible.
It's very obvious how revealing this would advance the daemon's goals by weakening trust in Mathidle and undermining trust in products of the projects she's working on. It's also very obvious why the daemon would want to do that.
This feels like a very obvious route to letting the daemon win.
It's not a data point at all. Fundamentally, it's just noise.
A daemon of the chaos god of lying saying something has no evidentiary value.
… and so there's a strong majority for giving them the maximum amount of power possible.
It's very obvious how revealing this would advance the daemon's goals by weakening trust in Mathidle and undermining trust in products of the projects she's working on. It's also very obvious why the daemon would want to do that.
This feels like a very obvious route to letting the daemon win.
It's not a data point at all. Fundamentally, it's just noise.
A daemon of the chaos god of lying saying something has no evidentiary value.
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[X] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[X] [BELEGAR] Weakening of reality
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
Daemons show up sometimes, that's life. No need to report such an awkward an embarrassing encounter.
The weakening of reality should probably be reported so everyone knows what's going on (while it's an expected side effect of some experiments/accidents, it should still probably be mentioned when it actually occurs) and Mathilde should get some soul checks done though. Probably all of the options include getting a soul check though? Gunnars is a friend and Mathilde knows lots of other trustworthy magical people so that should be doable.
[X] [BELEGAR] Weakening of reality
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
Daemons show up sometimes, that's life. No need to report such an awkward an embarrassing encounter.
The weakening of reality should probably be reported so everyone knows what's going on (while it's an expected side effect of some experiments/accidents, it should still probably be mentioned when it actually occurs) and Mathilde should get some soul checks done though. Probably all of the options include getting a soul check though? Gunnars is a friend and Mathilde knows lots of other trustworthy magical people so that should be doable.
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A general trend in what? The world can have literally two states when it comes to the Chaos Big Boss:
- The Everchosen is here and his name is X
- The Everchosen is coming
Also, if there is an Everchosen coming in a few decades, what would the Empire be able to do differently over that time?
Starting preparing now might mean peaking too soon, or investing resources in things that are less productive in the long term in return for a short term boost so that the Empire is overall weaker when the Everchosen does roll in.
Or the Everchosen attacks Cathay, and the resources invested in the Empire turns out to be wasted.
Without a timeline or location, it's very hard to usefully use this information.
And remember, this is information supplied by a hostile force. If we could use it to help defeat the Everchosen more easily, it seem less likely that we'd be told it, so it seems more likely that sharing the information would hurt than help. Chaos may be self-defeating on occasion, but assuming this is one of them seems unwise.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
[X] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
I'm gonna go ahead and say only share the info that's actionable. We really need everyone 150% backing the waystone project, and I'm not eroding that if there isn't a clear, obvious need for the info to be shared.
Edit:
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
It's not that actionable in the end.
[X] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
I'm gonna go ahead and say only share the info that's actionable. We really need everyone 150% backing the waystone project, and I'm not eroding that if there isn't a clear, obvious need for the info to be shared.
Edit:
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
It's not that actionable in the end.
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- Location
- Oklahoma
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
Mathilde has consistently chosen to place trust in those that she's loyal to, even if its painful or embarrassing for her.
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
Mathilde has consistently chosen to place trust in those that she's loyal to, even if its painful or embarrassing for her.
The thing is, she hasn't. She didn't tell the Colleges loads of things, from some things about the dwarves, possession by Mork, to the Liber Mortis, to the ring note.
Mathilde has a consistent history of knowing when to keep her mouth shut. This is one of those times.
This isn't about painful or embarrassing, this is about literally doing Chaos' work for them by undermining people's justified faith in her for nothing.
'Cui bono?' Who benefits? It certainly isn't Mathilde or the forces of order if trust in Mathilde and the products of the work she does is reduced. Seeding mistrust and division is what Tzeentch does, and we'd literally be doing His work by doing this.
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Why are you so convinced it's incapable of telling the truth?
If the number of people who are saying "The Everchosen is coming" dramatically rises over a short period of time, then that suggests it would be sooner rather than later. Mathilde adding to that simply enhances the accuracy. And yes, it can be argued that Mathilde's single data point doesn't matter because other people are also providing evidence, but it's like democracy—just because your single vote doesn't actually matter, doesn't mean you shouldn't vote.
- Location
- London, England
[X] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
Sometimes it really is a Need To Know scenario, and I don't think anyone else does.
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
Sometimes it really is a Need To Know scenario, and I don't think anyone else does.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
- Location
- Who knows?
Yeah, that was the scene where I would have ordinarily dropped the book out of disgust if I didn't need to keep going for research purposes.
I mean the rest of the book is just straight up bad (Alric's entire... character) and doesn't fit in with the rest of the Warhammer Fantasy timeline (Such as the Emperors and founders of the Colleges not matching to existing lore) or indeed any of the other stories of how Horstmann fell from grace, but that scene of him just fucking... walking out of the vault with the Chaos artefact after the vault keepers explicitly tell him he is not allowed to have it is one of the worst I've read across all of Warhammer fiction.
For those who wish to see this masterpiece of writing:
They just let him have it, and nobody ever brings it up again or thinks it's suspicious.
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It's not incapable of telling the truth. If it was you could use that to get useful knowledge, as we'd know what it said was not true.
I'm convinced that its words have no reliability. They could be either true or false, and the fact that the daemon spoke them doesn't change the prior probability of that at all. We've gained no information by hearing it.
- Location
- Australia
By...the Enemy? The most damaging lies are the ones with truth in them.
Revealing the truth to the relevant parties shows that Math is placing more importance on the structures she is a part of rather than putting herself first. It's a bad situation, but her superiors will see her actions and judge her by her intentions, rather than come across it themselves somehow and judge her by her inaction.
And hey, she's a devotee of Ranald - never do what your enemies expect you to do.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Honestly, from what I've gathered, an larger than preferable amount of WHF and 40K tends to end up following the line from Spaceballs:
"And so, Evil wins because Good is dumb!"
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Several Ulgu battle magic spells use it. And Ulgu is the Wind of borders and limits and the blurring thereof. And several of the other Grey LMs seem to believe it is related. And many natural liminal realms in forests are associated with shadows.
Fair. Egrimm's actual canon, without any polishing, is dumb as hell.
Yet I thought that a Patriarch without tattoos that walks into the archives alone might have a better go at it. For example I have no idea whatsoever how one would notice if Algard reads the wrong kind of classified material for the wrong reasons, let alone stop him.
My understanding was always that it is massively unlikely for a Magister Patriarch or Matriarch to become a wholesale Chaos cultist, but that, if it ever were to happen, it would be a massive and near inevitable blow to the Empire and the Colleges. Maybe I am underestimating the internal safeguards that the Colleges have even on that level.
Or to put it differently, I know what kind of horrible harm Mathilde could do. I assume that a LM with an actual official position in its College could do more. And that the head of the College could do even more than that, even if it is an unpopular head on the way out.
And just to not confuse matters or risk talking past each other, my point here is only that I believe mentioning suspicious connections between Alric and Chaos would have a non-zero effect on reducing the harm he could do if he actually was Chaos aligned. And that I believe a Chaos aligned Alric would most likely be worse than a random Chaos aligned Magister, despite Alric being currently watched closely for other reasons while the hypothetical Magister might be galavanting around below anyone's notice.
We definitely don't want to share the Fated thing. Everything else is just a miscast, a daemonic encounter and some shit talk. Fated is actual proof that Tzeentch has blessed us. That's definitely something to be put to the sword over.
So instead of comparing it to other data points to gauge it's validity, you're just going to throw it away? You're not even going to test your hypothesis that it's unreliable?
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[x] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[x] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and Mathilde's candidacy
[x] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[x] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and Mathilde's candidacy
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
[x] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and Mathilde's candidacy
How?
How does the enemy reveal it? Explain the sequence of events that does so in a way that wouldn't be equally possible of the daemon had never showed up?
The structures Mathilde is part of expect her to keep secrets. That's a major part of her job. Not telling anyone is not her putting more trust in those structures, it's just telling those structures to put less trust in her. She is the authorities here. Telling other people means she's saying she can't handle this and they need to do something about it.
What is that something? There only sensible response is to trust her less, as the only reason they'd need to know is if Mathilde realised she may be compromised.