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How? People are saying that; but how is that possible? Otherwise the daemon simply wouldn't have spoken to us, as telling no one about this is what would have happened if he didn't.
Because not reporting the appearance of a daemon and the breaching of reality has different consequences depending on whether or not that stuff actually happened. Maybe the truth comes out later, or some issue comes up that we can't fully address without revealing the secret, or something else happens that will otherwise penalise our decision to say nothing despite something happening. Or maybe saying nothing will never result in any negative consequences whatsoever. We don't know its plans nor how to stop them, we can't know, so trying to guess is foolish.

What we do know is that a daemon showed up and reality frayed, and in any other circumstance we'd report this, so we should report it as we normally would. How we'd normally report this kind of stuff is what we should be thinking of, not the daemon's possibly xanatosic schemes.
 
How? People are saying that; but how is that possible? Otherwise the daemon simply wouldn't have spoken to us, as telling no one about this is what would have happened if he didn't.

And note this isn't Tzeentch's infinite schemes. This is one particular Greater Daemon that will have its own agenda.

Telling no one just heightens our paranoia, and isolates us from our friends. It won't affect them, but it will have an impact upon Mathilde's long term psyche—which is what the demon wants. Of course telling others spreads the demon's influence and throws suspicion upon us, because there are no "perfect" solutions to this, so we can only take the ones which align with our principles—and that is trusting in our friends and superiors, and the institutions they command.
 
Because not reporting the appearance of a daemon and the breaching of reality has different consequences depending on whether or not that stuff actually happened. Maybe the truth comes out later, or some issue comes up that we can't fully address without revealing the secret, or something else happens that will otherwise penalise our decision to say nothing despite something happening. Or maybe saying nothing will never result in any negative consequences whatsoever. We don't know its plans nor how to stop them, we can't know, so trying to guess is foolish.

What we do know is that a daemon showed up and reality frayed, and in any other circumstance we'd report this, so we should report it as we normally would. How we'd normally report this kind of stuff is what we should be thinking of, not the daemon's possibly xanatosic schemes.

No it doesn't. A daemon could lie about all sorts of things afterwards whether or not it had actually happened. It makes no difference at all.

Now, the weakening of reality is slightly different, as that would have happened anyway, so we can talk about it.
 
Telling no one just heightens our paranoia, and isolates us from our friends. It won't affect them, but it will have an impact upon Mathilde's long term psyche—which is what the demon wants. Of course telling others spreads the demon's influence and throws suspicion upon us, because there are no "perfect" solutions to this, so we can only take the ones which align with our principles—and that is trusting in our friends and superiors, and the institutions they command.

Mathilde hasn't told people loads of important things. She's used to keeping secrets and it has neither heightened her paranoia nor isolated her from her friends to an unhealthy degree.

Compartmentalising information and keeping secrets is the standard for a Grey wizard, and having Ulgu part of her soul makes is metaphysically natural for Mathilde in a way it is not for normal humans.

Any long term impact on Mathilde's psyche from keeping secrets has already long since happened.

Mathilde is trusting her friends, superiors and institutions by not telling them, because they've entrusted her with the right to decide what to tell them and what not to. Keeping secrets is quite literally her job. Not telling is fully in line with the principles that Mathilde has lived and quite literally made a part of her soul.

Edit: and Mathilde is literally one of the greatest devotees of the literal god of lies and defying authority. Saying that her principles demand she volunteers the truth to her superiors seems a bit off…
 
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Telling no one just heightens our paranoia, and isolates us from our friends. It won't affect them, but it will have an impact upon Mathilde's long term psyche—which is what the demon wants. Of course telling others spreads the demon's influence and throws suspicion upon us, because there are no "perfect" solutions to this, so we can only take the ones which align with our principles—and that is trusting in our friends and superiors, and the institutions they command.

The standing assumption is that our friends back us on this, which seems to be the general consensus, but have you considered what happens if they do not. I do not mean 'they will have us burned at the stake oh no!', just if we can see it in their eyes, the distrust, the fear, the same things that almost got young Mathilde put on a pyre. At least when it comes to Belegar or Kragg they do not have the poker face to hide this for all they would try. So which form of isolation is worse to risk? Not being able to talk to your friends about one specific topic or knowing they think less of you and fear you for a reason that links directly to a traumatic memory?
 
@Boney did we pressure the AV with our freeform Ulgu skills or purely with our magically trained soul somehow? Because I notice that Mathilde's theory doesn't include the thought that Ulgu was specifically involved with the results of the experiment despite Ulgu being associated with liminal realms.

If Ulgu was involved it would have detonated. Mathilde was manipulating it with an extension of her soul, in the same way that she usually manipulates Ulgu with her soul to perform spells.

Why is talking about the Daemon without mentioning the Everchosen stuff not an option and how would Mathilde launder the Everchosen stuff if she stays mumm about a Daemon contacting her? Also, can we write in Daemon contact without specifying that it was a Greater one (technically we have no proof of that other than the Daemon's own claims) or would there be no point to that?

I didn't see any point to mentioning the Daemon but not that it mentioned an incoming Everchosen, and nobody's made a case for why that combination would be desirable. The Grey Order is well used to receiving information stripped of context due to the sensitivity of how it was acquired. There's generally no need to report contact with a lesser Daemon unless it gets the better of you somehow, which is a scenario more common with Daemonettes than with Horrors or Flamers.

If we are to mention our supposed candidacy, would we also mention Egrimm's and Alric's supposed (former) candidacy? If nothing else, the cost of sacrificing three LMs over the words of some Daemon is greater than just one and there's no reason to kill only Mathilde if the same source names three potentials.

They're not really threats. They're both defanged of what would have made them particularly susceptible or dangerous, and they already have eyes on them - Mathilde's on Egrimm and Mira's on Alric. All mentioning that a Daemon says they were previously in the running for the title of Biggest Nasty might do is push them away from the Colleges. But Mathilde has nobody providing that level of cautious oversight and has unique advantages that might make her a threat greater than the typical Everchosen.
 
I unironically think that studying the Kurgan shrine with Egrimm is a good action to bring Eike on. As to whether or not it will lead to Cython shenanigans...well, it's up to Boney and the dice as to whether it's even a possibility, but if it is I wouldn't say no.

Yeah, jokes aside, I'm actually on board with that as well. Also we know that Egrimm, in his early years, did some... "seeking" in regards to faith, but never found anything that satisfied him, so he's probably got a decent baseline education in religion that might actually be useful on the shrine.

Honestly, he might be a good representative of a high piety atheist/agnostic.

"How can you be secular if you're dedicated to the Wind of holy radiance?"

"Now there's a question for the philosophers." He shrugs. "Best I can offer is that perhaps the Gods use Hysh too."

"So you're not a man of faith?"

He shakes his head. "I searched when I was young. We all do, it's as much of being an Apprentice as the choirs are, and the library is bulging with works on philosophy and religion. But I never really found anything that fit. I've heard that the worship of Sigmar was once the most common amongst our Order, but ever since the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels, relations between the Order of Light and the Cult of Sigmar have been rather strained. Mira might be able to fix that once Alric's out of the picture, but for now the closest we have to a majority is Shallyans. We work with them relatively often, for exorcisms and for the pursuit and purging of Daemons of the Fly Lord." He shakes his head again. "They do good work, but most are too dedicated to mopping up the aftermath to do anything about the actual causes of problems. What about yourself?"

And now that I've actually dug up the update in which he spoke about faith, I've realised it's kinda... weird, that he just had offhand knowledge of the Obernarn Stone. That's some obscure divine lore he just pulled out of nowhere. Mathilde wasn't even completely familiar with the museum it's in.

He smiles, seemingly amused. "Ever been to the Imperial Museum?"

You frown. "The Magnus Museum? Or the ruined one?"

"Neither, the one at the Collegium Historica at the University."

You frown in thought. "I don't think so. Why?"

"There's an old runestone there, the Obernarn Stone, along with a translation. It speaks of some of the Gods and their acts as though they were a band of adventurers. I don't think it will give you an answer, but it might give you more interesting questions."
 
I think we shouldn't tell Belegar about the "weakened reality" because it's not a big deal. We're the magic expert: it's our responsibility to determine whether or not a magic thing is something he should worry about.

It's not something he needs to worry about, the demon just made it sound like a bigger deal than it is to get under our skin.

We trust him, yes, but he also trusts us to know what actually needs his attention.

[x] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[x] [BELEGAR] Greater Daemon
 
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The standing assumption is that our friends back us on this, which seems to be the general consensus, but have you considered what happens if they do not. I do not mean 'they will have us burned at the stake oh no!', just if we can see it in their eyes, the distrust, the fear, the same things that almost got young Mathilde put on a pyre. At least when it comes to Belegar or Kragg they do not have the poker face to hide this for all they would try. So which form of isolation is worse to risk? Not being able to talk to your friends about one specific topic or knowing they think less of you and fear you for a reason that links directly to a traumatic memory?

More than that, particularly for Belegar, what if Mathilde sees that knowing hurts them. Belegar is Mathilde's friend, and dwarves never forget emotions. He can't do anything to help Mathilde deal with this, so he will literally be forever tormented by the feeling of being helpless when a friend was in need.

Belegar does not need the extra stress.
 
More than that, particularly for Belegar, what if Mathilde sees that knowing hurts them. Belegar is Mathilde's friend, and dwarves never forget emotions. He can't do anything to help Mathilde deal with this, so he will literally be forever tormented by the feeling of being helpless when a friend was in need.

Belegar does not need the extra stress.

True, but I still think that the most immediate threat to Mathilde's mental health is 'I did everything right, I told them and they still suspect me, they still fear me.'

Darker side of the need for headpats.
 
If people are so conflicted, you could always roll the dice like everything else we have been doing.



And now that I've actually dug up the update in which he spoke about faith, I've realised it's kinda... weird, that he just had offhand knowledge of the Obernarn Stone. That's some obscure divine lore he just pulled out of nowhere. Mathilde wasn't even completely familiar with the museum it's in.
What if Egrimm and Cython are the same person?
(Jk)

But Light Wizards like lore and learning in a similar but different way to Grey Wizards
 
If people are so conflicted, you could always roll the dice like everything else we have been doing.

Four options, four sides on a dice:
Report to Belegar:
[ ] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[ ] [BELEGAR] Greater Daemon
[ ] [BELEGAR] Weakening of reality
[ ] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening

Report to College:
[ ] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[ ] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
[ ] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[ ] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and Mathilde's candidacy

Edit: I rolled a four...
Nerdasaurus Rex threw 2 4-faced dice. Reason: Ranald chooses Total: 4
3 3 1 1
 
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon

Given what we've heard from Deathfang,
The great machines begin to fail and the energies they were supposed to harness began to pour into the world, and the Ruinous Powers began to mould those energies - but the machines were more clever than they expected, as most of the energies were transformed by their passage into the world into forms that followed their own natures, rather than the orders of the Ruinous Powers.
and the example of the guiding intelligence of the Waystone network, one of the natural possibilities for this
So for the Vitae to become Winds and then for the Winds to become reality means that reality is being imposed upon the Winds by something other than reality.

You remember Cython theorizing about the similarity in nature between Gods and Winds, and wonder if it was more correct than it knew. Is this a product of divinity? Do the Gods collectively impose a sort of combined pastiche of their domains onto the world, creating forms of energy not connected with any of them individually but that does uphold the form of life that, in turn, sustains the Gods? Or is there some sort of hidden pantheon of God-Winds that are omnipresent throughout this world, so that the energies of the Aethyr that enter it are as under their command, just as the energies of the Aethyr around the conventional Gods becomes the divine energy with which miracles are worked? Or some other, stranger possibility?
is the operators of the polar gates, either Old Ones or machine intelligences, who underwent involuntary apotheosis when the gates blew up and now and all this time impose their will on the aethyr pouring into the world, aligning it with reality and turning it into winds.

Don't see any reasonable way for Mathilde to check this though, direct checking would entail traveling into and through the Warp or trekking up north and again entering the Warp. Unless we'll get lucky enough and happen upon invading Malekith during elfcation and he would be gracious enough to indulge our curiosity on his warp travels and tell us if he'd seen anything like that? :V

Joking aside, that the winds are results of intentional willful directed imposition of reality upon the aethyr tracks with the notion we've encountered during Waystone research, that the dhar naturally tends to flow towards the aethyr; as soon as any two winds mix, wills imposing reality on them come into conflict, like pulling an item into two different directions at once, and the wind stuff stops being aligned with reality, becoming more hostile to it, and starts being aligned more with aethyr and attracted back to it.
 
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [BELEGAR] Weakening of reality
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon

Ambivalent regarding the inclusion of Daemon, therefore a vote for both.

But is there a point of telling our order about it, as i can see it we can only diminish out reputation by putting ourselves whit that lot for no clear benefit.
 
True, but I still think that the most immediate threat to Mathilde's mental health is 'I did everything right, I told them and they still suspect me, they still fear me.'

Darker side of the need for headpats.

That's quite possible as well.

Mathilde craves acceptance, and could take even minor rejection quite poorly. Alienating her from her support network and creating the first crack could be a goal here.

I'm thinking about how the Grey Order works here. I think they practice proper information security/compartmentalisation. People are only told things if they need to know them, the default is that they aren't told them. Needing to know specifically means they need to take imminent action/decisions based on the knowledge, otherwise they'd be kept uninformed until the need arose.

That means that if Mathilde is telling the Grey College Lord Magisters something, she's also I implicitly telling them that they need to do something or change their behaviour because of it. Basically all the ways they could change their behaviour or actions seem to be negative to me. This isn't going to make them trust her more, so that basically means she's saying she needs them to be more cautious about her. If she was confident that she was still trustworthy, she's not tell them and deal with it herself. By kicking it up the tree she's telling them that she can't deal with it and they need to do something.
 
How plausible do we think it is for the Colleges to learn about Mathildes candidacy from another source?

While the contents of this particular conversation are nothing they can learn about, the candidacy perhaps could be.

If that's the case, Mathilde herself having brought it up first would make her a lot less suspicious.

Of course, I also see the argument that this is all very conveniently timed to lower Mathildes trustworthiness at a very critical time(waystones and upcoming morbflex), so I don't know where I fall yet.
 
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