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Also a fair bit of "why would I go evil if this is the best it can do?" She's already doing better without it.

See, I disagree on that. Mathilde is well aware that she would be vastly more powerful if she gave up her morals and ideals and loyalties.

But the thing is- she actually believes in her morals and ideals and loyalties. She rates them (and everything that comes with them) higher than her own personal power.

And there's always that bit of frustration of knowing Unlimited Power is within reach, while also knowing that she'd never actually stretch out her hand because it would mean the ruin of everything she's worked for and the betrayal of everything she believes.

That's my read, anyways.
 
However, Tzeentch is also the God of Lies. Lying (by omission) and concealing the truth aligns just as well with his domain as acting upon the information.
I am not always the smartest at this stuff. Change is just what happens by living, so it should be the change we could live with vs the chaos change most of the thread questers do not want.
 
I had an amusing thought, if we got 4 side of the die for the four chaos gods, one side presumbly for either undivided or maybe old Be'lakor coming to visit, we still have one side left.

It could be the other of undivided or Be'lakor, it could be the clutch save that either noting come out or that Mathilde manage to stop it in time, or it could be something more... in character for our history.

Welcome to Snakehunted 2.0, now with an entire hoard of those bastards, or a very old very mean one.

One the one side, the old mirrorbox contraption is no longer enough to hold something like this, on the other, we could have decide to sink in the AP time cost, and a lucky crit or two, we could have upped AV production rate.
Boney did say the two non-sacred numbers were Apparitions and Undivided gribblies, though I doubt Undivided would've given us Be'lakor himself.

See, I disagree on that. Mathilde is well aware that she would be vastly more powerful if she gave up her morals and ideals and loyalties.

But the thing is- she actually believes in her morals and ideals and loyalties. She rates them (and everything that comes with them) higher than her own personal power.

And there's always that bit of frustration of knowing Unlimited Power is within reach, while also knowing that she'd never actually stretch out her hand because it would mean the ruin of everything she's worked for and the betrayal of everything she believes.

That's my read, anyways.
As I've heard said in various forms elsewhere, power is a means, not an end. It's pointless if you aren't using it to do things, such as if you sacrificed your morals (and desire to do things based on said morals) in pursuit of power.
 
If it weren't yourself that would be on a chopping block, you're not entirely sure you wouldn't come down on the side of averting the risk.
Last I check Mathilde (and the thread) didn't suddenly have a desire to hack Alric and Enngrim apart on the say-so of a Tzeentch daemon's words the previous update sooo
 
I had an amusing thought, if we got 4 side of the die for the four chaos gods, one side presumbly for either undivided or maybe old Be'lakor coming to visit, we still have one side left.

It could be the other of undivided or Be'lakor, it could be the clutch save that either noting come out or that Mathilde manage to stop it in time, or it could be something more... in character for our history.

Welcome to Snakehunted 2.0, now with an entire hoard of those bastards, or a very old very mean one.

One the one side, the old mirrorbox contraption is no longer enough to hold something like this, on the other, we could have decide to sink in the AP time cost, and a lucky crit or two, we could have upped AV production rate.
Boney confirmed that the other possibilities were apparitions and chaos undivided. However, it's also been made clear that we're not going to manage to replicate our current setup.
 
It was noted before we went to the chaos wastes that it was surprising we hadn't had an encounter with Tzeentch attempting to turn us. Saying that the inevitable just happened it probably going to be relaxing.
 
I feel that the position that we have nullified the actions of the demon by just pretending it didn't happen is misguided. Here's what happened:

- we weakened reality in a spot by making a liminal realm
- a demon showed up
- it talked

Now, consider what we'd do if the second two bullet points were removed. We'd want to research it and secure it better, right? And just knowing the second is possible would be good reason to put a higher priority on the securing part.

But overcorrecting against the demonic phone call could convince us not to do those things. AV made a liminal realm and it's possible for demons to come through in rare circumstances - this is not poisoned info, it is demonstrably true.

So, I feel we should act on that information regardless of the mind games. Under ordinary circumstances, we would not shy away from throwing college and runesmith muscle at it if need be.

Should the demon talking change that? I think not.
 
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And part of you knows you could do better job of things than a mere upjumped steppe warlord if you put your mind to it.
*a better job
Wait. WAIT. We need to talk to the Order of Gazul AND our College about pocket dimensions! It's time for our second collab, aka 'Underway 2, Skaven can't tunnel into an alternate dimension, can they?!'
Yeah, what would you even need to do something like that? Some sort of crazy magical mad science device powered by crystallized bad juju or something? What are the odds the Skaven would ever have access to something like that?
Again, keeping secrets is just going to compound the damage of the inevitable reveal. Because it will happen. Tzeentch was pulling that gambit before Khorne popped up.
I mean, I think there's a reasonable case to be made that you are radically overestimating the existing of viable avenues for Tzeentch to make disclosures to a dwarf king that he would be prepared to take over the word of one of his best friends and closest advisors. Seriously, if you think it's so inevitable - lay out a scenario where it could plausibly actually be done. Don't just gesture broadly and say "Tzeentch does this kind of thing," explain how you think Tzeentch could potentially do this, specifically.
 
See, I disagree on that. Mathilde is well aware that she would be vastly more powerful if she gave up her morals and ideals and loyalties.

But the thing is- she actually believes in her morals and ideals and loyalties. She rates them (and everything that comes with them) higher than her own personal power.

And there's always that bit of frustration of knowing Unlimited Power is within reach, while also knowing that she'd never actually stretch out her hand because it would mean the ruin of everything she's worked for and the betrayal of everything she believes.

That's my read, anyways.
As I said: she's already doing better. What she considers to be better just happens to have very little to do with personal power.
 
So if you ignore the names that were so heavily dropped, where does that leave you? You're certainly not going to be able to command any sort of mobilization effort based on 'a Lord of Change told me', but you can add the information in more general form to the greater intelligence apparatus, which will be accumulating bits and pieces like that and will, eventually, reach the point where the omens are unmistakeable and the Empire - hopefully - will get its ducks in a row before half of Kislev is aflame. And if it turns out to be nothing - there's nothing to say that an Everchosen will attack the Old World, and several theorists in the field believe that Naggaroth and Cathay have received the brunt of at least a couple - then those armies can go and proactively stamp out a few nascent lesser threats. There's always something out there that could use a taste of steel and gunpowder.
So there is an advantage to telling the Colleges about it. Nice to know, I definitely think we should do so. Our reputation is pristine, we can tank the loss.

Tell nothing, common guys it's the babbling incoherent slug guy zeec.
Telling people can gives us advantages, as Boney said. And not telling Belegar, one of our oldest friend and someone who trusts us completely, seems like a real dick move. We shouldn't betray his trust.

And I'm pretty sure that telling nothing would also be part of the plan, so let's do the sensible thing and not get too paranoid.

And slugs are more of a Nurgle thing;)
 
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Meanwhile, Belabro is awesome, and mathilde has a track record of somewhat underestimating how much wizard dad cares for her.

Also wizard dad rolls with the idea of anteeing up yourself in order to play the game.

I can't say I'm really worried about them.
 
It occurs to me the Daemon didn't mention knowing what we had read. Even vaguely.

Huh.
Daemons (and Chaos gods) aren't omniscient. I'm still not sure how exactly they get their info, but I'm guessing a copious amount of divination. It's just that the Liber Mortis is an unknown unknown, or something they don't even know to look for because Mathilde has done a pretty good job of laundering away the few hints that she knows about this stuff.
 
Daemons (and Chaos gods) aren't omniscient. I'm still not sure how exactly they get their info, but I'm guessing a copious amount of divination. It's just that the Liber Mortis is an unknown unknown, or something they don't even know to look for because Mathilde has done a pretty good job of laundering away the few hints that she knows about this stuff.
Oh, I know. It's just interesting that they appear to actually not know. Really makes the whole offer less tempting when you realize that even ignoring how much is lies that they don't even know the first true secret thing about us.
 
Okay, having finaly caught up I have to say we maybe can pass up the information on the everchosen to our order but we realy shouldn't say anything to anyone, it is a mistake, we know is a mistake, a mistake we did before and didn't learn from, absolutely nothing good can come from it and if you very best possible result from an action is nothing happens, and all possible results from not taking the action are nothing happening, why do you want bad things to happen ?
Like the best argument for telling is that way they can't use it against us, but how is that diferent from then using a second metting that never happened even if we tell ?

But do you know what is the worst thing ? NO ONE noticed how telling everything was The Demon First Temptation.

"It's that every word I say will further excavate a warren of bad decisions that you will have to scurry your way through. Do you tell your little friends that you have thinned the one border of their reclaimed home that they cannot guard themselves? Do you tell them that you have been singled out for special attention by one of the Eyes of Tzeentch, the very one that once ensnared their brothers in the far north and began the twilight of their race?"
Like it is strange that the first thing it tould us was an attemp to a scare us into keeping information secret, why would he even need to ? Doesn't secrecy comes easy for those of Grey ? Isn't the pocket dimension destroyed ? Nothing worse the a miscast ? No harm no foul we could easily keep this quiet and it would change nothing ?

Well friends I don't know if you haven't been paying attention to this quest, but we a shit grey wizard and almost always our first reaction, our first belief is that the thruth will free us.

I could see in this disscussion almost everyone jumping to find who can they tell everything about this and then some, in hopes that would make things right, whitout stoping to think what even is wrong that truly needs fixing.

I said before we did this mistake before, and it was the after the Mork possesion, we didn't need to tell anyone about it but people still voted to tell the dwarfs, and we were on the bring of being carted to Karaz-a-Karak and having the expedition ground to a halt. An then Gunnars sprang fully formed from the ether on the back of a NAT100, looked at our shadow still moving, confirmed we were still us and averted the disaster, and we completely missed how we didn't learn anything we didn't know already before that debacle and if we had keep our mouth shut there would be no debacle needing aversion.

And now we are in this situation:
Perhaps not an irreversible one, but you already have a lot of demands on your time without having to reassure your allies of your reliability, and if your Collegiate and Dwarven contributors to the Waystone Project - currently the staunchest members - were to suddenly have reason to distance themselves, that could bring the entire Project into jeopardy

Is it realy worthy to risk everything to avert some future lie that is no more damaging for us keeping our mouth shut ?
Should we realy borrow possible trouble from the future and risk the waystone on the expectation that another NAT100 will safe us from the consequences ?
Do we realy thing talking about this meting will defang the potential lies about three other the talk about this one was "meant" to hide ?

Is like the eye said:

All you'd need do to keep this world from their grasp is to stay true to your purpose.
All we need to do to make sure our ability to affect the world is not reduced, that there is no chance this will harm the waystone project is act like a Grey Wizard and keep this quiet, because there is nothing good anyone can do with this information. Because there is nothing bad that will come from keeping quiet, no weakess to exploit.

But the demon dared us to keep quiet about the meting, and now people are rushing into this trap as if anyone who knows this thread ('cought'Boney'cought') would ever believe an excesive desire to keep secrets would ever be an exploitable weakness.
 
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Oh, I know. It's just interesting that they appear to actually not know. Really makes the whole offer less tempting when you realize that even ignoring how much is lies that they don't even know the first true secret thing about us.
I mean if the Daemon could air out Mathilde's dirty laundry it would get a whole lot easier to turn her to Chaos, since her social support structure would be rather badly damaged.
 
Oh, I know. It's just interesting that they appear to actually not know. Really makes the whole offer less tempting when you realize that even ignoring how much is lies that they don't even know the first true secret thing about us.
Unless, of course, it totally knows and is leaving it out so that we focus on all the other things it brought up while it prepares to screw us over with the one thing it didn't. Because Tzeentch.
 
So there is an advantage to telling the Colleges about it. Nice to know, I definitely think we should do so. Our reputation is pristine, we can tank the loss.
We don't have to tell them about the demon to mention "hey, dubious source mentioned there's an everchosen bowl going on."

Also, I think it's worth remembering that Regimand frequently pretends to be a black magister / blackmailable without telling anyone. Not mentioning a demon encounter -- a normal risk of being a wizard -- where the demon could only talk -- is comparatively mild. We're a lord magister; we have discretion out the wazoo for this kind of thing.
 
Okay, vote's open now, so I'm throwing out mine.

[X] [BELEGAR] Greater Daemon
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening

[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
 
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