WizWitcherly
An Arbiter
- Location
- The City
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Plan: honest negotiation 101
“Human Resources” Shouldn’t Be This Literal: A PMMM/ProjectMoon Quest
- Thread starter Lepidoptera
- Start date
-
- Tags
- library of ruina lobotomy corporation project moon puella magi madoka magica eldritch horror magical girl crossover eldritch protagonist female protagonist gore non-human protagonist suffering violence discussion is always good civ good decisions identity crises nuclear moth detected parenting powers activate
It is part of what I want to discuss during our talk, this vote is intended as a conversation reset and opener, I first want to check some things, after learning enough, I want to move to, well, let's put it in a list, in no particular order:
-Telling NT that we want them for themselves, not for being Kyouko or anything, point out our situation and how we came clean with them about us not being human. It will be more difficult for them to get accepted due to circumstances, but it is not impossible.
-Some people were talking about using lobotomy to check the girls, I think we should, but with NT's approval, and not right now, they're too defensive and will think we want to steal the gems.
-Get the 36.5 girls, actually, wonder if NT is counting Kazumi in that, given that she is not *normal* in the least, will have to check, anyway, get the girls in a state were they're not in horrible constant agony, I can accept putting them in stasis for a time, but this will not be the end goal, just a temporary solution while working on finding a substitute way for NT to be human, and, once again, only if the girls are at no risks and are not suffering.
-Discuss how we're going to explain this clusterfudge to everyone, no secrets, NT comes out as NT to them and explain themlselves, we'll make sure to have a situation were Sayaka jumping on them is not something that is moral, because that would mean we failed to be a good person. We'll also have to prevent said jumping anyway, wouldn't want her to commit suicide.
-Actually, on explaining things, we should check with NT if what the way they were acting with Mami was how Kyouko would've, or at least if it was inspired by her, that would be a huge help in helping her stabilize, by pointing out that the newfound relationship with Kyouko she had may have been based on a lie, but the feelings were sincere and Kyouko really did appreciate her, that part wasn't a lie, the lie was that the one who told her this was pretending to be her. God, I can already tell this is going to be a giant minefield and we'll have to chose our words very, very carefully.
- Location
- ?
I think given the circumstances the best we can shoot for is the girls at best tolerating NT. We shouldn't expect the girls to trust,let alone be friends with NT for a long while. And they're in their right to not want to do more than what they're comfortable with. Because even if NT didn't mean to,she still caused harm. One of the first things we need get NT to realize that the girls are NOT going to accept her right away if at all. And it wouldn't be right of X to try and push the girls to do so.
Last edited:
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
Kyoko and Sayaka will by nature despise Nothing There for what she did. Kyoko because NT likely tortured her constantly for like a week, and gave Kyoko long lasting damages to her Soul.
Sayaka because NT is a monster. (Or was if she decided to truly change after this and the next couple of turns)
Homura will be Homura.
Mami will likely hates NT guts because of Kyoko and the other 36 girls. Might warm up after like 5-10 turns, maybe more.
Madoka...prob will be more afraid than anything.
Yuma will be...also afraid, but get over it eventually.
QB will ask for a wish.
Sayaka because NT is a monster. (Or was if she decided to truly change after this and the next couple of turns)
Homura will be Homura.
Mami will likely hates NT guts because of Kyoko and the other 36 girls. Might warm up after like 5-10 turns, maybe more.
Madoka...prob will be more afraid than anything.
Yuma will be...also afraid, but get over it eventually.
QB will ask for a wish.
By the way, I really think we should use lobotomy to make sure the girls don't keep the memories of what they felt during it, it is too heavy for me to want to see them bear it, and the fact that despair is deadly to magical girls really don't help there.
As I said, god is it going to be a minefield, especially if NT was influenced by Kyoko in a way that led to them liking Mami, because, yes, Mami will hate them, on the other end, if we manage to and are very careful with it, we can use this to help explain to NT why what they were doing was wrong, and how it affected others, it would be like dancing on a cliff, but the results would potentially be amazing.
Yuma is the one most likely to not react badly to it, and actually understand some of the implications, she perfectly understood what happened with the birds from our story, and made sure to use that at the right time to help our explanation, she is clever and very resistant to uncomfortable truth, and the way she got that comfortable with them is an horrible tragedy, but it happened and she is in a way better situation now.
Last edited:
Clearly NT acted close enough to a hypothetical real Kyoko who wanted to reconcile that the vibe Mami got was not "this is not the Kyoko I know" but instead "there is some issue that Kyoko is trying to hide from me". Then again, confirmation bias from Mami's hope for reconciliation may have blinded her to deviations from the real Kyoko, just as it did for us.
The NT reveal will be especially disastrous for Mami. We would be telling her that one of the abnormalities (that we've warned cannot be trusted no matter how innocuous they appear) came in and replaced Kyoko, successfully fooling her with all that talk of reconciliation.
Mami is generally very hardline about the distinction between people and monsters (witches usually, but it could easily apply to abnormalities). X got a pass due to a grandfather (grandmother?) clause, being rather open about her nature, and only ever presenting as herself. Also because Mami would want to avoid at all costs entertaining the idea of X betraying her.
If anything, the idea that NT managed to get so close to her by acting as Kyoko would will do the opposite of stabilizing her. It's a painful reminder that her attempts to make things better and get real friends are doomed to failure. That her hope that people would want to be friends with her was a delusion all along. NT being so good at mimicking that it probably did reflect Kyoko's real desires in some way would be seen by Mami as a negative, not a positive.
Last edited:
That general feeling is why I want to ask if NT used Kyouko's feelings to talk to Mami, it is currently the only offset we can have to the feeling of betrayal she's going to go through, frankly, while I will want to keep an eye for Sayaka being Sayaka when we present the situation, my biggest arguments are probably going to be centered on Mami, she is the one most likely to outright break from it, as you say.
We'll have to be careful, hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we ends up needing to knock Mami out and duct tape a grief seed to her gem just to make sure she don't implode on us.
This is also why I would categorically refuse to accept for NT to pretend to be Kyouko, because when it comes out? Instant witch out is my prediction for a best case. The rest of my mind is playing tetris in a loop and rereading the Distortion file the QM gave us.
Going in a situation already thinking you will lose is not really conductive to finding solutions, try to imagine how we can control the introduction instead on how it *will* go horribly wrong. We don't even know enough about how our current conversation will ends to make predictions on the next one, lots of things depends on what concession we managed to get from NT, how genuine their feelings for Mami are and the state of the girls after we take a closer look at them.
This is a quest, I do not think the QM gave us an impossible situation there, there is a way to thread the needle, we just have to find it, and we won't find it if we abandon on the first step because *it's obviously impossible*, we are X, not one of these two:
We are the one who continued against the odds and triumphed, not the one that drowned in despair and tried to commit suicide.
This is a quest, I do not think the QM gave us an impossible situation there, there is a way to thread the needle, we just have to find it, and we won't find it if we abandon on the first step because *it's obviously impossible*, we are X, not one of these two:
We are the one who continued against the odds and triumphed, not the one that drowned in despair and tried to commit suicide.
Just woke up, and i have a discussion to catch up on.
[X] Plan: honest negotiation 101
Edit: Had a probably bad idea of how to ease the girls into things slightly. Vaguely mention that what we're seeing is completely unexpected, and that much of what we thought we knew about abnormalities may very well no longer apply. Don't panic or anything, just... this may take a while.
Shit, you know what I feel like? I feel like a surgeon or bomb defuser! Just keep working, and nobody dies!
Oh I was gonna suggest going out to have that breakdown that's been building and scream into the void for a bit. This is better, I think.
I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying leave them. I'm saying I think NT's intelligent enough that she doesn't actually need the soul gems to be a person, anymore. Just time and lessons. I don't want to Suppress NT, and I don't want to lose the soul gems, and I think there's a way to get both. That's what i'm trying for. Not sacrificing one or the other. If we succeed, we get an ALEPH unquestionably on our side, save a bunch of magical girls from soul death, AND possibly extract Mimicry in the future. Ideal ending for Ideal Gainz.
Fuck. Mami. Somehow, I forgot to consider everyone else's reactions. Yuma's an MVP who'll probably just roll with it, but everyone else... fuck. WELL. UH. Fuck it! We can deal with that when it becomes relevant, it's future us' problem now! Right now we should focus on unfucking the Third Trumpet in front of us with the almighty power of healthy communication skills.various said:
See? You get it! So we just need to disarm everything before then! And just to make sure the voting system recognizes it I'm gonna do this one more time.
[X] Plan: honest negotiation 101
Edit: Had a probably bad idea of how to ease the girls into things slightly. Vaguely mention that what we're seeing is completely unexpected, and that much of what we thought we knew about abnormalities may very well no longer apply. Don't panic or anything, just... this may take a while.
Shit, you know what I feel like? I feel like a surgeon or bomb defuser! Just keep working, and nobody dies!
Last edited:
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
So my very first guess when X first met Kyoko was completely correct. Although the author was able to make me doubt this hypothesis quite quickly, especially after the side story.
And as much as I want to help these girls, I don't think violence is the right choice here. Even in the best-case scenario, if it's a quick win, the Gems have a very high risk of being destroyed in the crossfire. And if we can get NT to cooperate, we might as well keep our side of the deal.
In theory, X should be able to replace the Soul Gems with something like Books, storing a copy of all the data of a real person, created using the Light and Alkahest. But before that, she should at least try to put the Gems into some kind of medicinal sleep, and ask the NT to use the Pure Seeds as batteries of Grief. And does not use magic, and also does not fight.
We will most likely need Homura's help to get things done as quickly as possible. However, I don't think we should tell the other girls before the situation is resolved. They will only worry, but they will not be able to help us. Well, except for Sayaka, probably.
We must try to find out more, calm NT and convince her to cooperate. Although I'm not sure about the wording in the existing votes.
PS. I wonder how Geburah will feel knowing that she has a whole fan club among the Abnormalities.
And as much as I want to help these girls, I don't think violence is the right choice here. Even in the best-case scenario, if it's a quick win, the Gems have a very high risk of being destroyed in the crossfire. And if we can get NT to cooperate, we might as well keep our side of the deal.
In theory, X should be able to replace the Soul Gems with something like Books, storing a copy of all the data of a real person, created using the Light and Alkahest. But before that, she should at least try to put the Gems into some kind of medicinal sleep, and ask the NT to use the Pure Seeds as batteries of Grief. And does not use magic, and also does not fight.
We will most likely need Homura's help to get things done as quickly as possible. However, I don't think we should tell the other girls before the situation is resolved. They will only worry, but they will not be able to help us. Well, except for Sayaka, probably.
We must try to find out more, calm NT and convince her to cooperate. Although I'm not sure about the wording in the existing votes.
PS. I wonder how Geburah will feel knowing that she has a whole fan club among the Abnormalities.
Additional probably bad idea on how to soften the blow some: Have Madoka turn to the entry on Plague Doctor/Whitenight (because you know X dedicated a few pages to that fucker) and read it aloud for everyone, then note that odds are it's not a matter of if it shows up, only when. Whitenight is not the problem X is dealing with, but she might have found something she can do to help prepare for it. Even if chances are the girls aren't going to like it.
Frame Nothing There as an alliance against something far bigger, and far more dangerous. Homura'll pick up on the subtext of "Nothing There could also be thrown at Walpurgis", and everyone else will be a bit easier to convince, especially if we've defused the metaphorical Soul Gem Bomb NT's thrown in front of us.
Edit: Also it gives the girls a common enemy to work against other than Walpurgis, which'll help everyone bond and boost Homura's rep.
Frame Nothing There as an alliance against something far bigger, and far more dangerous. Homura'll pick up on the subtext of "Nothing There could also be thrown at Walpurgis", and everyone else will be a bit easier to convince, especially if we've defused the metaphorical Soul Gem Bomb NT's thrown in front of us.
Edit: Also it gives the girls a common enemy to work against other than Walpurgis, which'll help everyone bond and boost Homura's rep.
Last edited:
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] Plan: honest negotiation 101:
It seems like a vaguely sensible plan?
It seems like a vaguely sensible plan?
Have to admit, the author is far better than me at keeping things not spoiled, I would not have resisted throwing bigger hints to steer the paranoia pot.
And congratulation on being correct!
Good news Gebura! You definitely left some impression when in the disciplinary department! Look, you even made a new mode! Everyone wants to look like you! Exactly like you! Uncomfortably too much like you!
Also, we should invite !book! Kali to the party, make it as awkward as possible.
edit:
Like, can you imagine the reaction?
"So, you're me from the future, after spending ten thousand years stuck in a hellish timeloop while stuck in a robot body?"
"Yes"
"And these two are, what? Fans of you? Seriously?"
"..."
"And why is one of them acting like an excited child everytime she sees us? Also, it's strange, she reminds me of my sword, somehow, and the way she call the other manager..."
"..."
*Awkward silence punctuated by NT squeeing in the background.*
Last edited:
- Location
- Earth
Proper foreshadowing is an art in itself. I struggle with it at times, too. Then again, looking at my own Quests, there were some fun twists nobody saw coming, or has seen coming just yet.
Sometimes, a thing you prepare is immediately obvious to a number of people. Though the worst reaction to this I heard of is the author changing the twist because it was called.
X: "Ah, actually I'm a mental construct Ayin created after the old lab fell apart. At some point I lost my old body and ended up basing my new one on you, since you're the strongest person I know who isn't an arbiter."
Kali: "That's... flattering? I think???"
Geburah: "Wait, shit, that was you back in the corporation? Ayin really wasn't there?!"
Kali: "Wait, what corporation!? What happened!?"
Geburah: "Lobotomy Corporation, keep up."
I have no idea how accurate this is. I just find it funny.
That is indeed the worst reaction to someone calling a twist, for a number of reasons, for one, an *obvious* twist can very well ends up not being considered correct due to being *too obvious* and can be used as a sort of double bluff that way. For two, proper foreshadowing is important, plot twist don't means *surprise! Motherfuckers!* at full bore all the time, it means something that can be seen in retrospect.
I do think you are good at it too, the *Jester is actually Kriemhild* twist you used in Love and Hatred actually explained things and gave them context, helping see the signs of it that existed prior, the little twist you recently revealed in
[X]The situation is not yet unsalvageable. Talk to i-her. Ayin's past taught you what poor communication does to people, and how to avoid making the same mistakes. There has to be a way for everyone to get what they want.
If we can delay the choice until we have more information, we should do so.
If we can delay the choice until we have more information, we should do so.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, probably not correct here, but also. NT is explicitly becoming more human due to merging with materialized human souls/whatever a soul gem is outside of laymen's terms. We're aware that soul gems are complex creations that can essentially be entered in some circumstances. Potentially related to the existence of witch barriers that revert to grief seeds when a witch is killed.
To me, I've always considered that and figured that soul gems have a certain "structure" to them. The metal contain the gem itself can't just be for show, yk?
Sayaka just had a glowing ball of light when she makes her wish. Soul gems change shape when a magical girl becomes something else. Things created to be like soul gems/grief seeds are similar or different accordingly. If the soul-mind-consiousness is software then the rest is the hardware. A mass produced way to contain and "run" a human soul.
Is it not possible that NT is attempting to copy the structure/hardware of a human soul, and is gaining more success from this than previous attempts to become human? I think that X might be able to help with that. I'm not sure how much sense this makes bc my brain is honestly shot but yeah, may as well post this.
To me, I've always considered that and figured that soul gems have a certain "structure" to them. The metal contain the gem itself can't just be for show, yk?
Sayaka just had a glowing ball of light when she makes her wish. Soul gems change shape when a magical girl becomes something else. Things created to be like soul gems/grief seeds are similar or different accordingly. If the soul-mind-consiousness is software then the rest is the hardware. A mass produced way to contain and "run" a human soul.
Is it not possible that NT is attempting to copy the structure/hardware of a human soul, and is gaining more success from this than previous attempts to become human? I think that X might be able to help with that. I'm not sure how much sense this makes bc my brain is honestly shot but yeah, may as well post this.