Fate/Clusterfuck (Fate/Stay Night)

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[X] [You have to rescue Minori]

Our chances of surviving Medea are directly proportional to how distinct we make ourselves from Jason in her mind, so being suicidally brave and running into fights without teamwork is actually a good thing! /s :V
 
Randino Treviani said:
I acknowledge that the outright antagonist character you've described is clearly worse, but Emiya Kiritsugu adopted a traumatized young boy, never addressed his obvious survivors guilt, beyond passing on an Ideology which had already failed Kiritsugu himself, pushing Shirou to develop martyr complex entirely about his need to take action to save people, with actually saving people or lasting impact being entirely secondary to what borders on an involuntary impulse to put himself in harms way for others. This ultimately leads to shirou living a lifestyle he consistently comes to regret and an afterlife so miserable Archer Emiya breaks the laws of time and space for a chance to mercy/veangance kill his former self to try and escape.

In addition, he bothered to introduce shirou to magic at all but didn't follow through enough to make sure shirou wasn't doing anything too dangerous.

Honestly the kindest thing Kiritsugu ever did was introduce Shirou to Taiga and Raiga, without whom he would most likely be a complete wreck. In all else, he was a very irresponsible and destructive parent.
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I personally think you should slow down on the fanfics.
 
Ugochukwu said:
I personally think you should slow down on the fanfics.
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Huh, somehow missed that post. But regardless. Yeah.
  1. Shirou adopted the mindset himself.
  2. Kiritsugu had his own mental issues aplenty.
  3. Kiritsugu taught Shirou magic badly on purpose so the kid would give up. He failed to understand how stubborn Shirou is.
  4. "Failing to understand how stubborn Shirou is" is a recurring thing in Fate.
  5. Kiritsugu was a bad dad, but he did try his best.
@Randino Treviani
 
[X] [You have to rescue Minori]

Well, I suppose it was only a matter of time before we dove headlong into (near-)certain death.
 
Erien said:
Shirou adopted the mindset himself
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Yes, Shirou adopted the mindset himself after Kiritsugu confided his lost dream to him without thinking to elaborate that rather than mearly being "hard" when you get older, it's a path that can be downright self destructive if you don't know how to back off from it.

I'll admit a deathbed conversation isn't one you usually have your guard up for, but given how said Ideology warped and twisted his morality and cost him everything in the end, you'd think he'd focus on something not related to his massive pre grail war body count to confide to in a positive manner to his son while at least somewhat aware that his time on this earth is growing shorter.


View: https://youtu.be/jAdZn2hqDXs

Erien said:
Kiritsugu had his own mental issues aplenty.
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I'm very much aware of this. Kiritsugu should have been at least somewhat aware of this, and it should have really been something he considered more carefully before adopting Shirou. In particular the lack of attempts to adress either of their clear mental issues is one of Kiritsugu's distinct failures as a father.
Erien said:
Kiritsugu taught Shirou magic badly on purpose so the kid would give up. He failed to understand how stubborn Shirou is.
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I get that, I just don't get why? Who did shirou know in the magical community that was going to clue him in if Kiritsugu didn't show him? How hard would it have been to explain the dangers of magic to Taiga and extract an "I'm dying" promise to try and keep shirou in Fuyuki, where no one willing to teach him would be likely to show up for years or decades based on how much he anticipated about future events? He had options and chose "Kid here's the wrong way to manipulate the connection between your body and soul to perform magic". Whatever his intentions or misconceptions as to Shirou's character, it was still a very irresponsible and extreme course of action. Honestly it feels like it would be very reasonable for a young shirou to make a mistake and have a near death experience or need soul surgery as a result of Kiritsugu's deliberately flawed lessons.
Erien said:
"Failing to understand how stubborn Shirou is" is a recurring thing in Fate.
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I've always felt it was more of a mixed impressions sort of deal. Most of the time, Shirou is stobborn about being considerate, generous, thoughtful, or hardworking. As a result, when his Martyr/Savior complex flares up their caught off guard by shirou being, well, a damaged individual controlled by trauma fueled instincts rather than the steadfast confidant he inadvertently conditions them to expect.
Erien said:
Kiritsugu was a bad dad, but he did try his best.
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Never said he didn't try his best, just saying he was a bad dad and that a lot more credit should be given to the other influences in his life when it comes to his positive traits.
Ugochukwu said:
I personally think you should slow down on the fanfics.
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I don't read much Fuyuki Nasuverse, having a preference for Apocrypha and FGO. I read nothing Kiritsugu centric, and little that's shirou centric. This quest is the first in a year or more actually. I'm more of a Mordred or Waver kind of guy.

Everything in that post is my assessment of Kiritsugu after a deep dive into the lore upon finishing Fate Zero and genuinely finding him somewhat unlikeable, which was upgraded to detestable in the long run following said deep dive. I don't dislike characters because of misconceptions as a result of fan interpretations I've misconstrued to be facts. I dislike them because I've taken a long hard look at there character and identified personal issues with there actions or beliefs which mean I'm not fond of them.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 5, 2022 at 2:30 PM, finished with 52 posts and 35 votes.
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I see we are going full Shirou.
 
Erien said:
Adhoc vote count started by Erien on Nov 5, 2022 at 2:30 PM, finished with 52 posts and 35 votes.
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I see we are going full Shirou.
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He does seem to need a Shirou.
*cue music video*

View: https://youtu.be/2bAvgpWM3Is
 
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This made me think of Issei from unlimited blade works. I really have to wonder how shirou would tackle the possibility of a magecraft capable taiga being a secret master.
 
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