Seeing Red [Naruto]

Tekomandor · Oct 13, 2022

Redshirt Army said:
[x] Sealing Art: Spiral Consuming Seal. This method of sealing creates a scroll capable of sealing away a technique, though it is costly to use and equally costly to unseal the technique - this is a defensive seal, not a fully functioning 'jutsu scroll'. It is, however, more general than Jiraiya's Fire Sealing Method.

I'm not really convinced that Tsunade's strength technique will play well with Senjutsu, which I see as a higher priority.

It does work with Sage Mode - the higher your base strength, the higher chakra burst can be pushed. That being said, you would still need A-rank strength for Sage Mode either way.

matthew badger said:
I wonder how much of a strength boost it would be?

Theoretically, even if the benefit is smaller than speed, if the boost to strength is large enough it wouldn't matter, and the benefit in a duel would be enormous. this would also combine with the speed benefits to make the kenjutsu stat pretty amazing.

Edit:
Also does Hisana switch to leaf kenjutsu after the initial sword strike? in that case kenjutsu would be more enhanced during extended confrontations such as in the case of duels.

Hisana does often use Leaf Style after the initial blow.

Edit: Ah, I should mention that your A-rank trait choice for sealing is already selected - it's the final hurricane seal upgrade that was mentioned.

GrimTheMad · Oct 13, 2022

So its outright synergistic with Sage Mode.

(And needing A-rank strength is good knowledge to have.)

Using Leaf Style after the initial blow makes Burst a lot more valuable- Leaf Style uses strength and speed in equal proportion and its what she's going to be using for the majority of combat in fights with peer or superior opponents.

matthew badger · Oct 13, 2022

Hisana currently has a technique that increases speed, and a technique that increases defense. By gaining a technique that increases strength, we complete the trifecta of stats that turn Hisana into a rounded S class combatant once all of her abilities are active. We already possess the defense enhancing ability which can be upgraded, making the technique-absorption somewhat redundant long term. We possess the speed enhancing ability that can be further upgraded, meaning we can activate them both to increase speed and defense by a large amount. If we pass up the strength enhancing ability here, we might not get another chance to gain one, meaning we would lack one of the three pillars for late game ninja combat. You might say we can pick up something like the gates or sage mode, however nothing boosts only the strength, so our build would be lopsided in the direction of speed and durability.

Fanhunter696 · Oct 13, 2022

Tekomandor said:
It does work with Sage Mode - the higher your base strength, the higher chakra burst can be pushed. That being said, you would still need A-rank strength for Sage Mode either way.

Hisana does often use Leaf Style after the initial blow.

Edit: Ah, I should mention that your A-rank trait choice for sealing is already selected - it's the final hurricane seal upgrade that was mentioned.

All that is pretty awesome

Another thing @Tekomandor if we increase our strength, besides increasing our damage output, will that help us to tank attacks (since we don't have constitution as an attribute and strength is the closest thing we have in that regard) ?

Darkcore41 · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
Our primary sword style is Iaido.
That keys off Speed, which is why we spent so much effort pumping Speed to our highest single stat(230).
Compare Leaf Style and Iaido:

Doesn't it say right there:

Iaido: 125 [B-Rank] [KEN + IA + 0.75*STR + 2*SPD]

0.75Str in the calculations. So yes speed gives a bigger bonus but strength also factors to a lesser degree.

Edit: We also now know that hisana switches off after the intial blow, making strength all the more necessary.

Aranfan · Oct 13, 2022

GrimTheMad said:
We're also only 10 points off of A-rank Sealing, which could also offer the Spiral or the Burst. We have no real way of knowing if any of these will become options again.

As always with questing- if you want an option vote for it when it comes up. Promises of 'later' are always empty because 'later' is never guaranteed.

Just vote for what you like the most.

This is the vote for what perk we get from A-Rank Sealing tho?

Fanhunter696 · Oct 13, 2022

Aranfan said:
This is the vote for what perk we get from A-Rank Sealing tho?

No, it is for Storage seals...

Aranfan · Oct 13, 2022

In light of Tekomandor's information I am switching my vote:

[x] Sealing Art: Chakra Burst Network. This network of extremely thin seals, corresponding to Hisana's muscles, allows the use of explosive bursts of chakra for physical enhancement and reinforces the body to withstand them. Each precisely controlled burst of chakra gives the user a burst of strength, acting like an early version of Tsunade's Chakra Enhanced Strength. Though inferior to beginning-of-part-two Sakura's usage of the technique, it can be improved.

Pharos · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
There is always stuff you have to stand and fight for. Or stuff you cant outrun.
Even B had to stand and fight Namikaze Minato.

You cannot defend the target of a bijuudama with Strength. You cannot dispell a possession technique with Strength.
Without a sealing technique, your only chance of surviving getting hit with something like Amaterasu, or the nastier Aburame techniques, is amputation.

We are well into the weight class where worrying about exotic threats are a thing.
Especially as our teammates are weirdness magnets.

Fair enough, but I think we'd be better off finding solutions for specific exotic attacks in that case.

Have people blocked bijuudama blasts before?

CedeTheBees · Oct 13, 2022

Can't believe I just binged something Naruto-related in the year of our lord 2022.

[X] Sealing Art: Chakra Burst Network. This network of extremely thin seals, corresponding to Hisana's muscles, allows the use of explosive bursts of chakra for physical enhancement and reinforces the body to withstand them. Each precisely controlled burst of chakra gives the user a burst of strength, acting like an early version of Tsunade's Chakra Enhanced Strength. Though inferior to beginning-of-part-two Sakura's usage of the technique, it can be improved.

Fanhunter696 · Oct 13, 2022

Pharos said:
Fair enough, but I think we'd be better off finding solutions for specific exotic attacks in that case.

Have people blocked bijuudama blasts before?

Minato did it...

GrimTheMad · Oct 13, 2022

Pharos said:
Fair enough, but I think we'd be better off finding solutions for specific exotic attacks in that case.

Have people blocked bijuudama blasts before?

Minato succesfully teleported one away, more than once as I recall.

The Four Red Yang Formation blocked Bijuudama from the ten-tails. It seems to be an upgrade version of the Uchiha Flame Formation.

There's an even further upgrade version called the Six Red Yang Formation that blocked multiple Bijuudama from the ten-tails simultaneously (by redirecting them upwards) but that seems to require the Rinnegan to use.

Suigetsu didn't block it but he did survive a bijuudama from Hachibi, albeit I'm pretty sure that was only possible because he had access to an existing body of water and he was not in great shape afterwards.

Summoning: Triple Rashōmon as used by Orochimaru was capable of dispersing a Bijuudama from 4-tails Naruto.

There's probably some others that I don't recall, but its definitely been done before.

Pharos · Oct 13, 2022

GrimTheMad said:
Minato succesfully teleported one away, more than once as I recall.

The Four Red Yang Formation blocked Bijuudama from the ten-tails. It seems to be an upgrade version of the Uchiha Flame Formation.

There's an even further upgrade version called the Six Red Yang Formation that blocked multiple Bijuudama from the ten-tails simultaneously (by redirecting them upwards) but that seems to require the Rinnegan to use.

Suigetsu didn't block it but he did survive a bijuudama from Hachibi, albeit I'm pretty sure that was only possible because he had access to an existing body of water and he was not in great shape afterwards.

Summoning: Triple Rashōmon as used by Orochimaru was capable of dispersing a Bijuudama from 4-tails Naruto.

There's probably some others that I don't recall, but its definitely been done before.

I see, thanks. I guess blocking it is more feasible than I thought.

Redshirt Army · Oct 13, 2022

Tekomandor said:
It does work with Sage Mode - the higher your base strength, the higher chakra burst can be pushed. That being said, you would still need A-rank strength for Sage Mode either way.

Neat.

[x] Sealing Art: Chakra Burst Network. This network of extremely thin seals, corresponding to Hisana's muscles, allows the use of explosive bursts of chakra for physical enhancement and reinforces the body to withstand them. Each precisely controlled burst of chakra gives the user a burst of strength, acting like an early version of Tsunade's Chakra Enhanced Strength. Though inferior to beginning-of-part-two Sakura's usage of the technique, it can be improved.

uju32 · Oct 13, 2022

matthew badger said:
Sakura's base was weaker than Hisana's though, so we can probably expect equal strength to early Shippuden Sakura in practice, which i'd rate as S-class.

No it wasnt.
Sakura has always been pretty effing strong for her age when worked up. I dont think its credible to assume that 12 year old Hisana's base is stronger than 16 year Sakura's base after several years with Tsunade and several years of medical education.

Tekomandor said:
does work with Sage Mode - the higher your base strength, the higher chakra burst can be pushed. That being said, you would still need A-rank strength for Sage Mode either way.

So we need A-rank Strength eventually?
Good to know.

Darkcore41 said:
Doesn't it say right there:

Iaido: 125 [B-Rank] [KEN + IA + 0.75*STR + 2*SPD]
0.75Str in the calculations. So yes speed gives a bigger bonus but strength also factors to a lesser degree.

Edit: We also now know that hisana switches off after the intial blow, making strength all the more necessary.

Its an equation; you can do the math.
===
Iaido : KEN + 125 + (0.75×85) + (2×230) = KEN + 523.75
Leaf Style: KEN + 120 + (1.25×85) + (1.25×230) = KEN + 393.75
===
Iaido is literally 130 points more than Leaf Style.
Because Speed contributes a lot more to the equation than Strength does.

We're Iaido primary for a reason.

GrimTheMad · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
Its an equation; you can do the math.
===
Iaido : KEN + 125 + (0.75×85) + (2×230) = KEN + 523.75
Leaf Style: KEN + 120 + (1.25×85) + (1.25×230) = KEN + 393.75
===
Iaido is literally 130 points more than Leaf Style.
Because Speed contributes a lot more to the equation than Strength does.
We're Iaido primary for a reason.

Except the QM literally just confirmed that we often only use Iaido for the first strike and then follow up with Leaf- and usually the first strike is enough but for peer opponents we'll be spending a lot more time in Leaf Style.

uju32 · Oct 13, 2022

Current Tally:

Adhoc vote count started by Fanhunter696 on Oct 13, 2022 at 10:14 PM, finished with 113 posts and 61 votes.

29 people have voted
[x] Sealing Art: Chakra Burst Network. This network of extremely thin seals, corresponding to Hisana's muscles, allows the use of explosive bursts of chakra for physical enhancement and reinforces the body to withstand them. Each precisely controlled burst of chakra gives the user a burst of strength, acting like an early version of Tsunade's Chakra Enhanced Strength. Though inferior to beginning-of-part-two Sakura's usage of the technique, it can be improved.
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27 people have voted
[x] Sealing Art: Spiral Consuming Seal. This method of sealing creates a scroll capable of sealing away a technique, though it is costly to use and equally costly to unseal the technique - this is a defensive seal, not a fully functioning 'jutsu scroll'. It is, however, more general than Jiraiya's Fire Sealing Method.
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6 people have voted
[x] Sealing Art: Elemental Formula. This allows the user to inscribe powerful elemental jutsu into stable jutsu formula for later use. At this level of proficiency, up to B-Rank jutsu formula may be created. Unlocks the 'Elemental Seals' skill.
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Darkcore41 · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
No it wasnt.
Sakura has always been pretty effing strong for her age when worked up. I dont think its credible to assume that 12 year old Hisana's base is stronger than 16 year Sakura's base after several years with Tsunade and several years of medical education.

So we need A-rank Strength eventually?
Good to know.

Its an equation; you can do the math.
===
Iaido : KEN + 125 + (0.75×85) + (2×230) = KEN + 523.75
Leaf Style: KEN + 120 + (1.25×85) + (1.25×230) = KEN + 393.75
===
Iaido is literally 130 points more than Leaf Style.
Because Speed contributes a lot more to the equation than Strength does.
We're Iaido primary for a reason.

I'm not saying strength contributes more then speed but that strength contributes something. If I understood the arguement it was that str doesn't contribute at all.

We also do main Iaido but apparently the mc switches styles after the first strike making str more relevant then what it would be if just Iaido was used.

Edit: I rather have a constant boost then a conditional trump card.

uju32 · Oct 13, 2022

GrimTheMad said:
Except the QM literally just confirmed that we only use Iaido for the first strike- and usually the first strike is enough but for peer opponents we'll be spending a lot more time in Leaf Style.

No, thats not what the QM said.
She says she often uses LS after the initial blow, not that she uses it for peer opponents'

I mean, does it make sense to you that Hisana would use her weaker style against peer and near-peer opponents?

Darkcore41 · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
No, thats not what the QM said.
She says she often uses LS after the initial blow, not that she uses it for peer opponents'

I mean, does it make sense to you that Hisana would use her weaker style against peer and near-peer opponents?

It does because Iaido is a quick draw style. Would you have her put her sword back constantly in close combat?

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong but it's a quick draw strike that uses speed to hit before someone can pull something off.

GrimTheMad · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
No, thats not what the QM said.
She says she often uses LS after the initial blow, not that she uses it for peer opponents'

I mean, does it make sense to you that Hisana would use her weaker style against peer and near-peer opponents?

Iaido is a 'first strike' style, the first blow is the entire point.

She'll wind up using Leaf against peer opponents because those are the ones that will survive the first blow.

I'm sure she'd switch back to Iaido if she got the chance to disengage and initiate another 'first strike', but for protracted engagements she'd be using Leaf.

Kimimaro, for example- The first strike would have been Iaido, then most of the exchange to follow would be Leaf, switching back to Iaido whenever she needed to close the gap back in to melee. The final hit, that being the Talon and follow up, was likely also Iaido as she had a run-up.

uju32 · Oct 13, 2022

Tekomandor said:
does work with Sage Mode - the higher your base strength, the higher chakra burst can be pushed. That being said, you would still need A-rank strength for Sage Mode either way.

QUESTION
Just to reconfirm, Sage Mode is an S-class unlock, correct?

GrimTheMad said:
So its outright synergistic with Sage Mode.
(And needing A-rank strength is good knowledge to have.)
Using Leaf Style after the initial blow makes Burst a lot more valuable- Leaf Style uses strength and speed in equal proportion and its what she's going to be using for the majority of combat in fights with peer or superior opponents.

Yes. WHEN we unlock Sage Mode.

Pharos said:
Fair enough, but I think we'd be better off finding solutions for specific exotic attacks in that case.
Have people blocked bijuudama blasts before?

Yes.
Minato teleported one. Obito has blocked a smaller one. I think Madara and Hashirama both have as well, but its been a while so I cant be sure.

Darkcore41 said:
It does because Iaido is a quick draw style. Would you have her put her sword back constantly I'm close combat?

Yes.
We learned it from a Land of Iron samurai, and they use swordwork in close combat. They dont even have ninjutsu.
If it wasnt functional in that scenario, they wouldnt still use it.

Darkcore41 · Oct 13, 2022

uju32 said:
Yes.
We learned it from a Land of Iron samurai, and they use swordwork in close combat. They dont even have ninjutsu.
If it wasnt functional in that scenario, they wouldnt still use it.

It's functional is addition to normal kenjutsu. That Samurai has more then just Iaido. Otherwise he got so good at one hit one kill he didn't need anything else.

uju32 · Oct 13, 2022

GrimTheMad said:
Iaido is a 'first strike' style, the first blow is the entire point.

She'll wind up using Leaf against peer opponents because those are the ones that will survive the first blow.
I'm sure she'd switch back to Iaido if she got the chance to disengage and initiate another 'first strike', but for protracted engagements she'd be using Leaf.

Kimimaro, for example- The first strike would have been Iaido, then most of the exchange to follow would be Leaf, switching back to Iaido whenever she needed to close the gap back in to melee. The final hit, that being the Talon and follow up, was likely also Iaido as she had a run-up.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3WkwFCXfCkQ

If you have five minutes to spare. Old men doing Iaido demonstrations at a tournament.
Seriously, its a combat art. The first strike matters, but its not a system where if you fail to end things with the first blow, you resheathe your sword.

Prospalz · Oct 13, 2022

[x] Sealing Art: Chakra Burst Network. This network of extremely thin seals, corresponding to Hisana's muscles, allows the use of explosive bursts of chakra for physical enhancement and reinforces the body to withstand them. Each precisely controlled burst of chakra gives the user a burst of strength, acting like an early version of Tsunade's Chakra Enhanced Strength. Though inferior to beginning-of-part-two Sakura's usage of the technique, it can be improved.

Seeing Red [Naruto]

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