Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[x] [HOUSE] Yes
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
 
Has anyone considered that the Father mantle doesn't have to necessarily be limited to only two daughters? Maybe Ranald's got a random son somewhere, or three extra daughters who he doesn't really get along with.
We were shown a picture with 2 daughters.

It's rather suggestive that that's the bounds of the effect.
 
Has anyone considered that the Father mantle doesn't have to necessarily be limited to only two daughters? Maybe Ranald's got a random son somewhere, or three extra daughters who he doesn't really get along with.
That's unlikely. Ranald showed us 2 Daughters, if he had more he would have showed more. Or give us a clue there was more.
 
Has anyone considered that the Father mantle doesn't have to necessarily be limited to only two daughters? Maybe Ranald's got a random son somewhere, or three extra daughters who he doesn't really get along with.
I guess, but it feels like it'd have been kind of weird to exclude children from what very much appears as a family portrait, and I can't really see Ranald or Shallya going for it. Ranald is already trusting us with the knowledge that He has actual children in the world, so it doesn't make sense to try and hide the existence of other examples. As for Shallya, well, I can't see her accepting doing something so cruel as deliberately keeping a child out of a family portrait.
 
[x] [HOUSE] Yes
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
 
I've just found more evidence that Dyrath is the second daughter:

Dyrath is a minor deity worshipped in the Grand Province of Reikland. [1a]

She has no temples but her secretive worshippers are found all through the small villages and hamlets of Hägercrybs. She favours offerings of fruit, honey and menses. [1a]

She may also be a aspect of the goddess Rhya in the west with a sister aspect Haleth providing the same in the north.[2a]

Source: Dyrath - Warhammer - The Old World - Lexicanum which cites Sigmar's Heirs.

The connection to Haleth, which might be a variation of Halétha, means that she's now my number one guess for the other daughter.

She's a goddess of Womenhood—which fits the yonic symbolism—she has a secretive cult, and the Hägercrybs are forested hills, and both forests and hills fit the chevron symbolism as well.

Assuming Halath and Dyrath are not aspects of Rhea but actual independent deities, then Halath must be Halétha and her sister must be Dyrath.
 
I've just found more evidence that Dyrath is the second daughter:



Source: Dyrath - Warhammer - The Old World - Lexicanum which cites Sigmar's Heirs.

The connection to Haleth, which might be a variation of Halétha, means that she's now my number one guess for the other daughter.

She's a goddess of Womenhood—which fits the yonic symbolism—she has a secretive cult, and the Hägercrybs are forested hills, and both forests and hills fit the chevron symbolism as well.

Assuming Halath and Dyrath are not aspects of Rhea but actual independent deities, then Halath must be Halétha and her sister must be Dyrath.
Believe that's about this passage:

Rhya, too, has her sub-cults, such as Haleth in the north and Dyrath in the west, the latter symbolising her aspect as Lady of Fertility and Midwifery.
Sigmar's Heirs mentions Haleth and Dyrath several times, always in the context of them being regional variants/sub-cults of Rhya.
 
I've just found more evidence that Dyrath is the second daughter:



Source: Dyrath - Warhammer - The Old World - Lexicanum which cites Sigmar's Heirs.

The connection to Haleth, which might be a variation of Halétha, means that she's now my number one guess for the other daughter.

She's a goddess of Womenhood—which fits the yonic symbolism—she has a secretive cult, and the Hägercrybs are forested hills, and both forests and hills fit the chevron symbolism as well.

Assuming Halath and Dyrath are not aspects of Rhea but actual independent deities, then Halath must be Halétha and her sister must be Dyrath.
This is an astonishingly good find, well done. Your reasoning seems sound to me, and this has now catapulted over Haleth and the Lady for contenders for the second Daughter, the one who favors their Mother. It won't help us out on the Waystone project, but might still be handy in the future, and getting one assist (especially for a very secretive group) is pretty nice.

Boney, we have Minor Gods of the Empire (Extensive & Esoteric): does Mathilde have any information about Dyrath beyond what's been shared here, especially regarding the Haleth connection?
 
Between that and the relatively unbothered reception you received when you arrived, you suspect you might have answered half the mystery that Ranald presented you with when you were gifted the fifth face of your Coin.
Can someone just remind me what the fifth face of the coin was, please?
 
I've just found more evidence that Dyrath is the second daughter:



Source: Dyrath - Warhammer - The Old World - Lexicanum which cites Sigmar's Heirs.

The connection to Haleth, which might be a variation of Halétha, means that she's now my number one guess for the other daughter.

She's a goddess of Womenhood—which fits the yonic symbolism—she has a secretive cult, and the Hägercrybs are forested hills, and both forests and hills fit the chevron symbolism as well.

Assuming Halath and Dyrath are not aspects of Rhea but actual independent deities, then Halath must be Halétha and her sister must be Dyrath.
This is all that Heirs of Sigmar provides on Dyrath, with citations and page numbers:

"Rhya, too, has her sub-cults, such as Haleth in the north and Dyrath in the west, the latter symbolising her aspect as Lady of Fertility and Midwifery" Page 40

"Other popular deities are Dyrath, a regional name for Rhya whom the Reiklanders of Vorbergland honour as the patroness of fertility" Page 81

"Dyrath's spindle": Destiny or fate. (From the belief that the umbilical cord is spun by Dyrath and handed to Morr, so that he may pull people into his realm when it is their time.) (Sayings of Reikland) Page 81

"To the north Rhya is called "Dyrath," a sign of Reiklander influence." Page 96

"Others devote themselves to lesser aspects of the major gods, such as Dyrath in the Reikland and western Sudenland and Averland, who is a local aspect of Rhya and is the patroness of fruit trees." Page 99

There is also a misspelling of her name in Page 42 where she's identified as "Dryath", a Fertility Goddess of the North.

The use of the word "sister aspect" is not present within canonical sources. That's an addition by the Wiki. If you're wondering what Tome of Salvation has on Dyrath, this is it:

"Where the wild-haired priests of the Teutognens put any cultist competing with Ulric to the axe—thus, by the time of Sigmar's birth, there were no cults openly claiming to represent winter, wolves or war—most other cults were less aggressive. Indeed, some cults did not even try to enforce their religious views, which resulted in some Gods being worshipped in many different ways, and by many different names. A good example of this is the many Earth Mother cults that can be found throughout our pious Empire, including the minor cults of Dyrath, Haleth, and Hyacinth, which, amongst scholastic circles, are all presumed to be revering Rhya under different guises." Page 13 ToS

And then there are two tables that list her as a Fertility Goddess in Reikland. (Pages 79 and 81)

If there is demand for it, I can pull up all mentions of Haleth.
 
Can someone just remind me what the fifth face of the coin was, please?
To build on the answers you were given, here are the relevant quotes in case you want to see the primary sources:
All that remains is the mark of the impact on the stone and you're not at all surprised to see that it forms an X.

But then you frown and lean a little closer. It looks like an X at first glance, but it's bisected horizontally, leaving a line of unmarked stone between the V above and the chevron below. You run your fingers over the shape and as you do you feel the Coin around your neck grow warm against your skin, and when you pull it out you find the same shape on the first face you see. You rotate it through and find that this is a new fifth side of your Coin, which is all well and good, but what does it mean? You scrutinize both Coin and the mark on the ground, but both refuse to give any further insight. So you sigh, stand to leave, and then freeze as you turn towards the door and catch sight of the painting of Ranald and Shallya, because now among the picnicking couple and Their twin flocks of crows and doves are two small girls, one who heavily resembles Her father with a hint of Her mother, and the other Her mother with a hint of Her father. And you feel a smile spreading across your face.

From one perspective you sacrificed answers to your God, and in doing so received more questions. But from another, Ranald has followed the example of Heidi and Wilhelmina by introducing you, His friend, to His offspring. Though He has done so while remaining faithful to his usual mien, and you're certain a corner of your mind will be speculating about Their actual identities for quite some time.
Ranald's Coin: A somehow five-sided coin dedicated to the four known faces of Ranald, and to His relationship with His daughters.
Ranald's Coin is worn showing one of its faces. During normal turns, you can choose which face you will be showing.
- The Gambler: A +20 bonus to up to two dice rolls affiliated with a chosen action.

- The Night Prowler: As long as you are outside of private property and within a town or city, nobody will question your presence and nobody will be able to find you if you do not wish them to. For non-human population centres, will work if it's not completely unknown for humans to be present, or if you are disguised as that species.
- The Deceiver: Lies you have developed beforehand will be delivered perfectly. The listener may believe you to be mistaken, but they will never believe that you are lying. Cannot be used to tell truths.
- The Protector: When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger that you did not cause, they will become aware of what you have done and will believe you acted selflessly in doing so. Rule of thumb: if you have to explain why this might apply, it probably doesn't.
- The Father: Ranald's daughters, and Their followers, will recognize you as being worthy of trust and faith.
The chief controversy of this last turn's vote was whether we would try out the Father for the first time, under the hypothesis that Halétha the patron of the Hedgewise was one of the Daughters and this would help recruit them (which proved correct), or whether we would instead save that experiment for a later point and Gamble the Lay the foundations action instead.
 
Well on the one hand I cannot really think what we would need access to a local fertility deity, on the other hand it is good to at least have another contender and who knows maybe... actually wait I have just had a thought. If Dryarch is like Shaylla than maybe her priests can heal and in that case they might be able to help Johann.

Not much of a use and I do not think we should rush into it or anything, just thought I would mention is so I don't just forget it.
 
If Dryarch is like Shaylla than maybe her priests can heal and in that case they might be able to help Johann.
If Shallyan healers could repair his eyes I think he'd have gone for that over being blind.

I don't know what you would expect Dyrath healers to be able to do better. The issue is still the Chamon spread through his eyes.
 
I also have to say that the different spellings of some things can really get on my nerve. Dryath and Dyrath is one thing, but I also have to contend with Ishernos and Ishnernos, which makes it very frustrating the more I dash between book to book to look for key words.
 
If Shallyan healers could repair his eyes I think he'd have gone for that over being blind.

I don't know what you would expect Dyrath healers to be able to do better. The issue is still the Chamon spread through his eyes.

I pretty sure a sufficiently skilled Shayllan healer could do it, it is just that they have better things to do with those powers and they do not know Johann from Adam. It would be a bit of a faux pas to go looking for that favor in this name.
 
Personally I'm not very convinced by Dryath. It seems she and Haleth are just different regional names for Rhya, with Haleth being called that due to bleedover from Haléthan influence. "Sister aspects" seems less about a literal sibling relation and more an abstract description of two things being of a similar nature.
 
You know looking at the option we chose for the Hedgewise I wonder if we were not thinking about helping them the wrong way. Instead of trying to legalize them as wizards, of which there are all of two traditions and little in the way of popular trust, why not try to leverage the project to try to get the Blessed Few recognized as priests?

I mean it's not like there isn't precedent. Hag and Ice magic are both witch lores that are legally accepted as divine magic so we can assume there is no way to make a IC hard distinction between them. Of course we would have to push back on millennia of persecution so I do not expect it to be easy, but maybe we could spring it if we are successful enough with the aid of the 'Priest of Haletha'.
 
Agh I keep wanting to develop the theory but I keep running into the brick wall that is Rhya-Isha-Shallya. Isha and Loec tricked Ellinilli into destroying his children, and Kislev has a similar story about Salyak and Ranald, and Deathfang claims that Rhya isn't Isha. But Isha is married to Kurnous, who might be Taal, and most people, including Cython, believe that Rhya and Isha are actually the same person. Either someone is wrong, or Rhya and Shallya are the same person, and if that's true then Halath and Dyrath are more than aspects, they are Rhya-Shallya's daughters, but how could Rhya and Shallya be the same person? Or maybe Shallya and Isha are the same person, and Rhya is trying to steal Isha-Shallya's territory? Claiming that various minor deities are actually aspects of Herself rather than separate gods, maybe?

What if there's a conflict between Isha and Kurnous, and Rhya and Taal, who claim the same domains but are all separate people? Does Isha have two husbands? Is she seeing Ranald behind Kuronus's back? Is Ranald Kuronus? Has Asuryan died for real and been replaced by Loec wearing His mask? I'm so confused.
 
Why assume Isha only had one lover/husband. The widow had 2 brother/husbands. Or maybe there was a fallout and divorce. We don't know and have no way of knowing in character now.
 
And this is why it's always a pain when I remember we have a way to know for sure, but can't use it.

Sigh, what's done is done, and what's burnt is burnt.
 
Back
Top